Rearranging/Setting Up

[28BlusLater]

As you can see in my HT Gallery, my stuff is set-up a bit weird. The fronts, my equipment, center speaker, and TV are in a corner and pointed to my seating position. I have a few questions here I could use some help with. I'm getting my room re-carpeted (perhaps some hard floors put in instead) and painting the walls. Since I have to move everything out already, I figured I'd get them to patch up where I mounted my TV and rearrange everything. You can basically see all of the walls of my room just from my HT Gallery.

I'll move my Definitive Technology surrounds to the other side of the room. I'll put my TV where the Saving Private Ryan poster is, my AV rack under it, my MartinLogan Prefaces on each side of the AV rack. I'll be moving my bed (which is under the Saving Private Ryan poster) to the other side of the room by the windows where my TV is.

I have no idea where to put my SVS PB12-NSD subwoofer. Should I fit it in the corner next to one of my MartinLogan Prefaces? Also, should I be worried about earthquakes do you think? I'm thinking about putting my Saving Private Ryan and Saw III posters above my MartinLogan Prefaces on both sides of my TV. Or would that be a bad idea in case there was to be an earthquake?

Also, would this be a good time to get a riser for my SVS?

I went to Magnolia recently and they showed me this special speaker wire that isn't stranded, but I forgot what this type of speaker wire is called. They say that it makes your speakers sound much better due to a better connection and they'll be stronger and won't decay as easily as stranded speaker wire. However, it's not super cheap I don't recall. Is this worth picking up for all my speakers? Banana plugs for the amplifier end and ones going to my Definitive Technology speakers? My MartinLogans have different binding posts and won't work with binding posts. What do you guys think?

And finally, what colors should I paint the walls? I was thinking on painting one of the walls the same Dark Cherry tone (or a similar one) to my MartinLogan Prefaces. However, it's a dark color so it might not be wise to paint all of the walls that color. Any suggestions are welcome.

If you guys need some more pictures than what are on my HT Gallery, let me know and ask me what you want a picture of. I want to know what I'm going to do with everything before I start doing this whole project.

Thanks.

[28BlusLater]

Also, how should I arrange my front stage?

Front Right, Center, Subwoofer, Front Left?

Or

Front Right, Center, Front Left, Subwoofer (which is a corner)?

[Istoc]

Hey Blu, I've seen you around quite a bit so I'm sure you might have seen these but a refresher on the stuff never hurt. Its simply the easiest way to answer the questions your posing.

Read these on Bass(Sub) Management by BD, If you still have questions I'll be more than willing to help ya but he pretty much covers everything...

https://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers...nt-part-i.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers...oom-modes.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers...justments.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers...t-part-ii.html


That should give you info on where to set your sub since that seems to be the primary trouble here.

Honestly how many Earthquakes have ya had that would dismount the Posters from above your speakers? Ask yourself that. If it seems like a high risk that the posters will fall and possibly do Damage to your gorgeous Martins I might not advise it, but I really only see them doing cosmetic damage as long as your grills are regularly on anyway.

Honestly the guy at the Magnolia store was just trying to sell you something. The degradation from speaker wire really only comes at distance even then it can be mitigated by changing the size of the wire used. As long as your current wire is a nice tight stranded copper and not fraying like crazy you're more than set.

The paint is a personal preference but if you have a WAF to deal with it might be best to get her into the color choice with ya. I know some people prefer darker colors to reduce light reflections around the room from the TV. My living situation doesn't allow the freedom to repaint at will so I haven't done research on this particular area. But I believe I can find ya people who have if you end up needing definitive answers.

I hope you enjoy the "light" reading I've posted, again any questions after some reading I'll be more than happy to discuss with ya

Enjoy your day man.

Cristian

[28BlusLater]

Originally Posted by Istoc

Hey Blu, I've seen you around quite a bit so I'm sure you might have seen these but a refresher on the stuff never hurt. Its simply the easiest way to answer the questions your posing.

Read these on Bass(Sub) Management by BD, If you still have questions I'll be more than willing to help ya but he pretty much covers everything...

https://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers...nt-part-i.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers...oom-modes.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers...justments.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers...t-part-ii.html


That should give you info on where to set your sub since that seems to be the primary trouble here.

Honestly how many Earthquakes have ya had that would dismount the Posters from above your speakers? Ask yourself that. If it seems like a high risk that the posters will fall and possibly do Damage to your gorgeous Martins I might not advise it, but I really only see them doing cosmetic damage as long as your grills are regularly on anyway.

Honestly the guy at the Magnolia store was just trying to sell you something. The degradation from speaker wire really only comes at distance even then it can be mitigated by changing the size of the wire used. As long as your current wire is a nice tight stranded copper and not fraying like crazy you're more than set.

The paint is a personal preference but if you have a WAF to deal with it might be best to get her into the color choice with ya. I know some people prefer darker colors to reduce light reflections around the room from the TV. My living situation doesn't allow the freedom to repaint at will so I haven't done research on this particular area. But I believe I can find ya people who have if you end up needing definitive answers.

I hope you enjoy the "light" reading I've posted, again any questions after some reading I'll be more than happy to discuss with ya

Enjoy your day man.

Cristian

Thanks for the response.
I've seen those threads that you have linked but I'll be sure to read through them again sometime tonight.

I'm in California and we've only had one huge earthquake (1994..so a while ago) other than that, just really small ones that didn't move anything in my room except some small stuff like books. I might just put up the lighter posters above the speakers so that if they were to fall, they would be light and not cause as much damage. For example, my signed Inception poster is HEAVY while my Saw III one and Saving Private Ryan ones are fairly light.

When I told the employee I was using the stranded wire with 14 gauge, he cringed and shook his head saying I have it all wrong and that this other wire is much better.

I'm going to have to look around and see what color for the painting. I don't have to worry about WAF since I'm not married.

[Istoc]

Yeah Man I'm sorry, It sounds like he was just trying to get you to buy something that is inordinately expensive and completely un-needed. Some of the things the sellers believe is completely wrong. Mostly not of their own fault, the reps from the various companies that come to lecture the in store reps often times mislead or misinform them, e.g. I talk with a guy at my local Vanns fairly often and have had him try using my Monoprice Banana's versus his Audioquest Banana's because he said you would be able to hear the difference on the highest quality speakers. So we ran the 12k a pair Klipschs with both and he realized that....Wait for it... My Monoprice was 1/18th the price and just as good. He felt really bad about it and now tries to get people to get their stuff from Monoprice. I also recommended BlueJeans for prebuilts.

The concept that all wire is equal is flawed don't get me wrong, some IS better than other. But dude the difference would have to be between Gold and Copper, not copper and a different copper. Sometimes these guys need guidance too

[28BlusLater]

Originally Posted by Istoc

Yeah Man I'm sorry, It sounds like he was just trying to get you to buy something that is inordinately expensive and completely un-needed. Some of the things the sellers believe is completely wrong. Mostly not of their own fault, the reps from the various companies that come to lecture the in store reps often times mislead or misinform them, e.g. I talk with a guy at my local Vanns fairly often and have had him try using my Monoprice Banana's versus his Audioquest Banana's because he said you would be able to hear the difference on the highest quality speakers. So we ran the 12k a pair Klipschs with both and he realized that....Wait for it... My Monoprice was 1/18th the price and just as good. He felt really bad about it and now tries to get people to get their stuff from Monoprice. I also recommended BlueJeans for prebuilts.

The concept that all wire is equal is flawed don't get me wrong, some IS better than other. But dude the difference would have to be between Gold and Copper, not copper and a different copper. Sometimes these guys need guidance too

Very true.

The guy at Magnolia asked me what speakers I was using and what I was using to power them. I told him what I had and said "What's SVS and Emotiva? Amateur stuff, I assume." He kept telling me my stuff was inferior and that I had it all set up wrong.

Twenty minutes later, he showed me what he thought was great sounding audio. He showed me a soundbar. I was literally there laughing and said "My stuff is amateur? Really?" I know my stuff doesn't compare to stuff like Wilson Audio Puppy speakers, but they're definitely awesome speakers much better than any soundbar could ever be.

I usually find really awesome people at Magonlia that I talk with for a while about audio and we usually share the same taste in speakers and stuff, but this guy was just an ass.

Also, do you recommend that I get banana's for my amp and for my Definitive Technology surround speakers? I would get them also for my MartinLogans, but the binding posts are different and cannot use banana's. I see there are some different type of connectors, what are those called that would fit with the MartinLogans' posts? Do these just give a better connection or do they actually offer some better sound? Sorry for not knowing much about the wires and connectors. I just haven't had much experience with them.

Since I'm completely re-arranging everything, I thought that I might as well consider getting some stuff for my system since I have to unattach everything for the painting and recarpeting anyways. I'll be most likely getting a sub riser as well.

[Istoc]

The Primary reason for using Banana or Spade plugs on the end of bare wire is to create simplicity and security. Mostly they just create a strong connection that doesn't run the risk that bare wire strands will just across the posts and short the amps sending them into protection. I find that make connections a breeze. If you remove them fairly often. I also like the fact that they make it near impossible to short across your terminal posts. I looked into the Preface custom Terminals I don't even think a spade connector would work on those. They intended bare wire and only bare wire. So If you want you could get some sets to run across the Amps and to your Def's you won't notice any audible difference, mostly just peace of mind .

No worries man. I only got into the HT hobby a few years back myself and have been drinking as much knowledge as I possibly can as often as I can... For instance at work when I get breaks I'm reading on my phone more often than not on these forums about something new or relevant . Nerdiness is awesome sometimes.

[28BlusLater]

Originally Posted by Istoc

The Primary reason for using Banana or Spade plugs on the end of bare wire is to create simplicity and security. Mostly they just create a strong connection that doesn't run the risk that bare wire strands will just across the posts and short the amps sending them into protection. I find that make connections a breeze. If you remove them fairly often. I also like the fact that they make it near impossible to short across your terminal posts. I looked into the Preface custom Terminals I don't even think a spade connector would work on those. They intended bare wire and only bare wire. So If you want you could get some sets to run across the Amps and to your Def's you won't notice any audible difference, mostly just peace of mind .

No worries man. I only got into the HT hobby a few years back myself and have been drinking as much knowledge as I possibly can as often as I can... For instance at work when I get breaks I'm reading on my phone more often than not on these forums about something new or relevant . Nerdiness is awesome sometimes.

Yeah, the MartinLogan Prefaces and Encore TF both have different binding posts compared to most modern speakers I see. I sometimes notice in a few movies my surround right sounding phenomenal while my surround left is underwhelming and at times hearing nothing. I did calibrate them with my SPL meter and I know the speaker isn't blown because when you put your ear to it, you can hear it perfectly, but when watching a movie and lets say there's a gunfight. You'll hear bullets shooting by in the surround right and then rarely a smaller sound from the surround left. There's nothing wrong with the speaker because I tried switching the speakers by switching the wires. Then I still have that same problem. I'm thinking maybe something happened to the cable to that speaker (it's tucked away behind my desk). I guess I'll find out when I take my room apart for repainting and such.

Thanks so much for answering my questions. As I begin the process of setting everything up I'm sure to have more questions though haha.

[Istoc]

Not a problem buddy . I never mind talking some HT with others who enjoy the hobby. Keep us posted.

[Kali157]

Originally Posted by 28BlusLater

As you can see in my HT Gallery, my stuff is set-up a bit weird. The fronts, my equipment, center speaker, and TV are in a corner and pointed to my seating position. I have a few questions here I could use some help with. I'm getting my room re-carpeted (perhaps some hard floors put in instead) and painting the walls. Since I have to move everything out already, I figured I'd get them to patch up where I mounted my TV and rearrange everything. You can basically see all of the walls of my room just from my HT Gallery.

I'll move my Definitive Technology surrounds to the other side of the room. I'll put my TV where the Saving Private Ryan poster is, my AV rack under it, my MartinLogan Prefaces on each side of the AV rack. I'll be moving my bed (which is under the Saving Private Ryan poster) to the other side of the room by the windows where my TV is.

I have no idea where to put my SVS PB12-NSD subwoofer. Should I fit it in the corner next to one of my MartinLogan Prefaces? Also, should I be worried about earthquakes do you think? I'm thinking about putting my Saving Private Ryan and Saw III posters above my MartinLogan Prefaces on both sides of my TV. Or would that be a bad idea in case there was to be an earthquake?

Also, would this be a good time to get a riser for my SVS?

I went to Magnolia recently and they showed me this special speaker wire that isn't stranded, but I forgot what this type of speaker wire is called. They say that it makes your speakers sound much better due to a better connection and they'll be stronger and won't decay as easily as stranded speaker wire. However, it's not super cheap I don't recall. Is this worth picking up for all my speakers? Banana plugs for the amplifier end and ones going to my Definitive Technology speakers? My MartinLogans have different binding posts and won't work with binding posts. What do you guys think?

And finally, what colors should I paint the walls? I was thinking on painting one of the walls the same Dark Cherry tone (or a similar one) to my MartinLogan Prefaces. However, it's a dark color so it might not be wise to paint all of the walls that color. Any suggestions are welcome.

If you guys need some more pictures than what are on my HT Gallery, let me know and ask me what you want a picture of. I want to know what I'm going to do with everything before I start doing this whole project.

Thanks.

Hi,

I have seen your gallery a few times and would like to offer some suggestions since you are moving stuff around. First, I think your idea of moving the TV on the opposite wall and away from the corner is a great idea. From the pics, the TV seems to be too high on top of that rack. I would put the TV next to the rack and mount the speaker under it. Or get an AV unit for under your TV. You don't have to spend a lot. My AV rack is actually a coffee table we picked up for pretty cheap.

Another suggestion would be to widen your front sound stage... your towers seem a lil too close together. Changing your AV rack to a wider one may aid this. Also, if you want to upgrade your speaker wires, maybe get some 12 gauge? Or since you are in CA, Frys carries a 10 gauge for a pretty good price (it usually isn't near the Monster stuff...).

Finally, I think your surrounds should be moved to either side of the listening position pointing ACROSS the sitting area, about 2-3 feet above your head. Having them pointed DOWN on top of your head (I am assuming) may not give you the best surround.

As for banana plugs, these are what I use. They provide a better contact than my previous Monoprice banana plugs which was causing faults on my amp. Anyway I wrote up a lil review and comparison if you are interested.

Finally, about the earthquakes... There are some cheap ways to earthquake proof posters you can find in Home Depot. I wouldn't worry too much about it though. I live in CA. Actually, I was in SF during the '89 earthquake... in a POOL during those 45 seconds. The pool had waves that someone could surf on. Anyway, hope this helps a little. Keep us posted.

[28BlusLater]

Originally Posted by Kali157

Hi,

I have seen your gallery a few times and would like to offer some suggestions since you are moving stuff around. First, I think your idea of moving the TV on the opposite wall and away from the corner is a great idea. From the pics, the TV seems to be too high on top of that rack. I would put the TV next to the rack and mount the speaker under it. Or get an AV unit for under your TV. You don't have to spend a lot. My AV rack is actually a coffee table we picked up for pretty cheap.

Another suggestion would be to widen your front sound stage... your towers seem a lil too close together. Changing your AV rack to a wider one may aid this. Also, if you want to upgrade your speaker wires, maybe get some 12 gauge? Or since you are in CA, Frys carries a 10 gauge for a pretty good price (it usually isn't near the Monster stuff...).

Finally, I think your surrounds should be moved to either side of the listening position pointing ACROSS the sitting area, about 2-3 feet above your head. Having them pointed DOWN on top of your head (I am assuming) may not give you the best surround.

As for banana plugs, these are what I use. They provide a better contact than my previous Monoprice banana plugs which was causing faults on my amp. Anyway I wrote up a lil review and comparison if you are interested.

Finally, about the earthquakes... There are some cheap ways to earthquake proof posters you can find in Home Depot. I wouldn't worry too much about it though. I live in CA. Actually, I was in SF during the '89 earthquake... in a POOL during those 45 seconds. The pool had waves that someone could surf on. Anyway, hope this helps a little. Keep us posted.

I was thinking about mounting my TV higher. I had mounted my TV long before getting the AV rack I had now, so I had to make due. Never have any problems seeing the screen though, my center channel is luckily not too tall. I cannot buy a new equipment rack since I just got this one in December.

Yeah, I realize my fronts are very close, but I haven't had a choice given the only space I had to place them. However, I do plan on spacing them as far apart as I can.

Also, I will be going into the wall for my surrounds in terms of wires. If you look at my HT gallery now, the wires are on the wall and look ugly. I plan on going through the wall. However, will I need new wires because I can imagine some decay of the wire being more likely in the wall than outside of the wall.

I'm still deciding what I should do with my surrounds. I might need to send a message over to BD since I keep hearing different things from different people. Some people are claiming it's better to have the surrounds 2-3 feet above your head with the tweeters pointed towards the seating position. Others say it's best to have them high up on the wall and just pointing in the general direction. I'm not sure which to believe and I haven't had the chance to try either out.

What kind of stuff do you use for earthquake proofing posters? Haven't really heard of that, but would love to put my Inception poster on one side of the TV and my Saving Private Ryan one on the other. However, the Inception one is pretty damn heavy and that was my biggest worry in terms of one falling on my speakers. However, if there's a way to really get it on the wall and ensure it stays even through a pretty big earthquake, I'd be glad to take that route.

I'll most definitely post in here as the time gets closer to me getting this all done. I'm sure this will be a long and exhausting process haha. However, my HT system will sound better. I can't wait to start it all though to just get it all over with.

I'll be removing all my equipment from my room long before the painters and others come to help do the job since I don't trust ANYONE moving my audio equipment and speakers but me.

I just measured the area where the equipment would go. There's a trade-off here I need to consider. I can have the fronts be a pretty good distance apart from each other (on each end of the walls), but then the subwoofer would be in between the front left and my AV rack. Or I'd have the fronts a little closer and the subwoofer would go in the corner. Which should I do?

[HAMP]

If it's in the bedroom, I would mount it high. That would be a much better viewing angle then having to try and look over your feet at the screen when laying down. I find it much more comfortable up high.

I also have my surround up high, but not pointing down like you have them. I have mine more of an angle towards the bed. I'm not saying it's the best, because lately, I have been wanting to change them to di-pole speakers instead of the direct-radiating. I would prefer the surrounds to encompass the room.

I have to complete my wiring in the bedroom also, I have one that is just hanging.

Pics are in my gallery under the 'Bedroom' pics folder.

[28BlusLater]

Originally Posted by HAMP

If it's in the bedroom, I would mount it high. That would be a much better viewing angle then having to try and look over your feet at the screen when laying down. I find it much more comfortable up high.

I also have my surround up high, but not pointing down like you have them. I have mine more of an angle towards the bed. I'm not saying it's the best, because lately, I have been wanting to change them to di-pole speakers instead of the direct-radiating. I would prefer the surrounds to encompass the room.

I have to complete my wiring in the bedroom also, I have one that is just hanging.

Pics are in my gallery under the 'Bedroom' pics folder.

Well, my bed won't be straight on to the TV. I will still have to do what I'm doing now. That is to sit up, facing the side of my bed. Otherwise, I'll be laying down on my side. Anyways, I was thinking about getting a nice chair that's straight on with the TV and moving my bed farther into a corner. I have to think about it.

I'm still unsure exactly what I'll be doing with my surround speakers. I'll have to think about it.

I would greatly appreciate if you answered one of my questions above about putting my subwoofer in the corner and my fronts being closer or having my fronts farther from each other and my subwoofer in between one of my fronts and my AV rack. Please let me know which is better.

[28BlusLater]

Also, I'm considering doing some room treatment for my speakers.

I want whatever is the cheapest solution. How big of a difference will the room treatment make? I was looking at some of the stuff from Elemental Designs. There are 3 different ones, what are the differences? They all look the same.

I don't know much about room treatment so an explanation or a link to an explanation would be greatly appreciated.

[28BlusLater]

*bump*

[Istoc]

Sorry bud. I've been away last few days. Here is a link to a thread on room treatments and the like:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/home-theat...-material.html

On the subwoofer thing, its really on you to figure out which location will work best in terms of the output at listening position. The most I can do is say that I personally prefer a slight corner loading to increase the subs performance without having to crank its amp knob. I move it far enough from the corner to not be boomy, but still close enough to amplify the low bass waves.

[28BlusLater]

I just rearranged my room on Google SketchUp to see how it'd look. I haven't entered the chair I'm getting yet, but it'll be at the foot of my bed, next to it so I'm straight on with the TV and my sound system and my surrounds. If you guys know any way to arrange anything in the way that I have my room in the image. It's perfectly accurate in terms of dimensions. Of course, I couldn't get the TV and rack perfectly in the middle of the wall and I didn't know how to turn my front speakers to tilt inward. This was my first time using it without any tutorials or anything.

Also, let me know what you think about my subwoofer placement because it's the only place I could put it in front stage (other than on the other side of the rack in the same position) otherwise one of my fronts will be way closer to my equipment than the other front speaker. Please let me know if I should move the subwoofer to the other side (the big empty spot) or just leave it where it is in the image. Thanks!

[Istoc]

To me it looks pretty solid. You might want to toe in the front speakers about and not sure on the dimensions of the room or the speakers themselves but with the various speakers in fronts for me I've always toed in about 4 inches on the inside edge compared to the outside edges placement. If you are mounting the rear speakers with an actual swivel mount you might want to run them about 7 inches in from the door placement on both sides to have them safely behind and above your listening position.

I realize using sketch its not entirely true to scale and such, but outside moving the rears back a touch and the toe in on the fronts it looks like it will be a great 5.1 Now we just need to remove a little more space in there and get you another sub to make the other side look more even . Not to say of course that it isn't a great 5.1 to begin with. Oh and once its set up try using the sub in both locations and see which one will suit your listening position better, You might be surprised by the differences in such a small move.

I think you will thoroughly enjoy your system

[28BlusLater]

Originally Posted by Istoc

To me it looks pretty solid. You might want to toe in the front speakers about and not sure on the dimensions of the room or the speakers themselves but with the various speakers in fronts for me I've always toed in about 4 inches on the inside edge compared to the outside edges placement. If you are mounting the rear speakers with an actual swivel mount you might want to run them about 7 inches in from the door placement on both sides to have them safely behind and above your listening position.

I realize using sketch its not entirely true to scale and such, but outside moving the rears back a touch and the toe in on the fronts it looks like it will be a great 5.1 Now we just need to remove a little more space in there and get you another sub to make the other side look more even . Not to say of course that it isn't a great 5.1 to begin with. Oh and once its set up try using the sub in both locations and see which one will suit your listening position better, You might be surprised by the differences in such a small move.

I think you will thoroughly enjoy your system

I measured everything so in terms of size, it's all accurate. However, I of course didn't know how to slant the speakers inward and was too lazy to get it all perfectly centered with the AV rack and TV haha.

I plan on getting another SVS subwoofer once I move out since right now I'm saving to just get my own place. Won't be for another few years, unfortunately. For now, it'll just be the single subwoofer. The PB12-NSD can handle it alone though.

I'll try a couple movie scenes with the subwoofer in both spots to see which sounds best. I'll also be building risers for my fronts and my subwoofer.

I definitely will toe in my speakers more from the walls than it's shown in the picture. I will also be doing some sound acoustics behind and on the sides of my fronts. Are you saying though to put them closer together? Didn't fully understand what you were saying there about all that.

Do surrounds sound better being a little bit behind me and not positioned on the sides of me? How far behind me is good?

[Istoc]

I get a good rear speaker response from mine when They are about 3/4 to a foot behind my seat, at most times its a bit more. Only for serious film demos do i adjust my seating to be in the perfect spot simply because I don't have the ability to show it at the required theater volume levels to blow people away often It tends to meld the rear sounds so I get the encompassing field.

I wasn't saying you need to move the actual location of the front speakers themselves, just to adjust the inside edges several inches to aim more directly at the seating position.

Its also usually best to keep about a foot from the wall in all directions on large floorstanding speakers, so that they can breathe. So if possible you might experiment with doing just that and moving them in towards the TV location and giving them more breathing room. Only a thought though.


Like I originally said though. Overall it looks like a great concept