Shu Yoshida: Devs to help build the next Playstation

[Simplayer]

A bit of an article published by Develop about Sony's design philosophy going forward with new Playstation hardware.
Article

[Wingman1977]

Only their internal development studios would be involved in this. With that said, those studios have a good track record.

[Simplayer]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

Only their internal development studios would be involved in this. With that said, those studios have a good track record.

That's fine. As long as they get some input from a variety of people that are going to be making their software.

[Steelmaker]

I'd say the biggest problem with the design of the PS3 was the lack of a unified memory architecture. I think this has been the biggest road block for developers. Really, I don't see why for the PS4 Sony couldn't just include a faster Cell processer, an updated NVIDIA graphics chip, and an absolute CRAP LOAD of unified memory. That should be more than enough for the next generation of hardware.

[saprano]

The memory is not unified but you can still access each 256 megs of ram and use how much ever you like. It's not locked to each chip like alot of people think.

[Simplayer]

Originally Posted by saprano

The memory is not unified but you can still access each 256 megs of ram and use how much ever you like. It's not locked to each chip like alot of people think.

Ya, but doesn't that come at a read/write speed cost? I can't seem to find anything about Cell/RSX read/write speed to VRAM/RAM.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Simplayer

Ya, but doesn't that come at a read/write speed cost? I can't seem to find anything about Cell/RSX read/write speed to VRAM/RAM.

XDR GDDR3
RSX Read 15.5GB/s 22.4GB/s
RSX Write 10.6GB/s 22.4GB/s
Cell Read 16.8GB/s 16MB/s
Cell Write 24.9GB/s 4GB/s

There is not much of a good reason for Cell to read from GDDR3 memory, hence the VERY low speed.

For the unified memory people, that's a read/write speed of over 35GB/s for the RSX BECAUSE OF split memory pool. The other console only has a max of just over 22GB/s for the GPU BECAUSE OF unified memory. eDRAM memory can't really be counted because it's just "scratch" memory. It can't store anything for later use. Split memory pools might be part of the reason true stereoscopic 3D is possible on the PS3.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

XDR GDDR3
RSX Read 15.5GB/s 22.4GB/s
RSX Write 10.6GB/s 22.4GB/s
Cell Read 16.8GB/s 16MB/s
Cell Write 24.9GB/s 4GB/s

There is not much of a good reason for Cell to read from GDDR3 memory, hence the VERY low speed.

For the unified memory people, that's a read/write speed of over 35GB/s for the RSX BECAUSE OF split memory pool. The other console only has a max of just over 22GB/s for the GPU BECAUSE OF unified memory. eDRAM memory can't really be counted because it's just "scratch" memory. It can't store anything for later use. Split memory pools might be part of the reason true stereoscopic 3D is possible on the PS3.

I wasn't questioning the PS3's graphical "prowess" because of it. I was simply saying that I THINK that the lack of unified memory has been the main culprit behind developers complaining about PS3 complexity, that's all.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

I wasn't questioning the PS3's graphical "prowess" because of it. I was simply saying that I THINK that the lack of unified memory has been the main culprit behind developers complaining about PS3 complexity, that's all.

That's cool, but it's not, though. PCs use split pools of memory as well.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

That's cool, but it's not, though. PCs use split pools of memory as well.

So what exactly is it about the PS3 that makes it so much more tricky to program for than say, the 3-fix-me?

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

So what exactly is it about the PS3 that makes it so much more tricky to program for than say, the 3-fix-me?

One of the main things were/are multi-threaded coding on an asynchronous processor and the Cell being unforgiving on bad code. AFAIK, the Cell is the only asynchronous processor available for most consumers to buy. The other console doesn't have an asynchronous CPU. Those things severely simplified coding for the other console.

However, now, I believe coding for the Cell is just as easy for 1st/2nd party developers as it is for any developer for the other console.

[Shu76]

Just put in 25,000 GBs of memory ,10,000 GB HDD along with a 50 million speed cell processor and call it a day for PS4.

[Simplayer]

Originally Posted by Shu76

Just put in 25,000 GBs of memory ,10,000 GB HDD along with a 50 million speed cell processor and call it a day for PS4.

Sony shouldn't listen to this Shu.

[Drew664]

“I’m spending more time on the hardware platform,” Yoshida added, “connecting hardware guys to developers. That’s my major role now, and Move is one of those new ways of developing platforms.”

The Wii controller scheme could be left behind though. I can't imagine how many games will be tainted with this development. Anyway, I'm excited for the PS4 as well as every other console that comes out next gen.

[Simplayer]

Originally Posted by Drew664

“I’m spending more time on the hardware platform,” Yoshida added, “connecting hardware guys to developers. That’s my major role now, and Move is one of those new ways of developing platforms.”

The Wii controller scheme could be left behind though. I can't imagine how many games will be tainted with this development. Anyway, I'm excited for the PS4 as well as every other console that comes out next gen.

Weh? What do you mean?

[SkillzthatKillz]

What they should do with the PS4 is stick with the cell type processor now that the industry has gotten used to programming for it. Obviously they would need to increase the speed of the processor by a lot for a next gen system (especially if we're gonna see full 1080p 3D games as the standard). Also, the GPU will need to be bolstered to whatever is top of the line at the time and they will need to boost the amount of RAM, maybe to 2 GB. Still keep a built in Hard Drive, use Blu-ray or maybe BDXL (the new standard that can hold up to 128 GB per disc) for the games, built in Wireless N or whatever the newest standard is. Use Bluetooth for the controllers and other peripherals. What they should also do is include 2 types of controllers with each system, one Dualshock type controller, and one Move type. That way each game can use both if they want or devs can specifically program for one type over the other if they so wish because every system will have both types. Then you get the casual market with the motion controls and the lazy hardcore gamers (aka, US ) with the traditional layout

[Drew664]

Originally Posted by Simplayer

Weh? What do you mean?

I meant it as, they develop a MGS game for the PS4, and instead of the dual shock controller, they decide to use the Move controller as the primary device. I'm just not interested in that type of medium when playing video games. Leave the motion control to a minimum.

[Simplayer]

Originally Posted by Drew664

I meant it as, they develop a MGS game for the PS4, and instead of the dual shock controller, they decide to use the Move controller as the primary device. I'm just not interested in that type of medium when playing video games. Leave the motion control to a minimum.

Ah, okay.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by SkillzthatKillz

What they should do with the PS4 is stick with the cell type processor now that the industry has gotten used to programming for it. Obviously they would need to increase the speed of the processor by a lot for a next gen system (especially if we're gonna see full 1080p 3D games as the standard). Also, the GPU will need to be bolstered to whatever is top of the line at the time and they will need to boost the amount of RAM, maybe to 2 GB. Still keep a built in Hard Drive, use Blu-ray or maybe BDXL (the new standard that can hold up to 128 GB per disc) for the games, built in Wireless N or whatever the newest standard is. Use Bluetooth for the controllers and other peripherals. What they should also do is include 2 types of controllers with each system, one Dualshock type controller, and one Move type. That way each game can use both if they want or devs can specifically program for one type over the other if they so wish because every system will have both types. Then you get the casual market with the motion controls and the lazy hardcore gamers (aka, US ) with the traditional layout

That would be nice. Actually, 1.5GB RAM, split between Cell and GPU, might be enough. Consoles aren't burdened with a heavy OS reserving 512MB off the top like PCs. Depending on how many cores the next Cell uses, assuming the Cell processor is used again (I hope it will be), your 2GB suggestion may be best. I wouldn't count on the extra controller, though.

[Simplayer]

The full interview has been posted. Here's the Q&A and here's a more editorial style piece based off of the Q&A.