Whole Lotta Profiling Going On

[BTBuck1]

Maybe this has been answered in the past...I am guessing it has, but a rumor is floating around at no other than AVS that 1.0 players may be unable to play 1.1 discs correctly. This apparently from a person at Denon...heres the quote and Link:

That's right. Jeff Talmadge, Denon's Director of Product Development and Systems Integration, says they're concerned about new disc/old player compatibility here:

http://www.listenup.com/content/part...dge.aug.07.php

"But there is a possibility — and this is maybe not so public knowledge — that when these discs come out that fit this new profile, they may not work properly with the Profile 1.0 players."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=906883

[JonasK]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

Maybe this has been answered in the past...I am guessing it has, but a rumor is floating around at no other than AVS that 1.0 players may be unable to play 1.1 discs correctly. This apparently from a person at Denon...heres the quote and Link:

It as been answered in the past (by paidgeek I think). Any standard compliant 1.1 disc should be playable in any standard compliant 1.0 player, but without access to the 1.1 specific features.

Note that the Denon guy then says "It’s a possibility, and that’s why we’re working very hard to make sure that our products will be okay with any previous discs and new discs.". So essentially, a buggy 1.0 player might get problem with a 1.1 disc. So what? It can be fixed...

[GaS]

Originally Posted by JonasK

It as been answered in the past (by paidgeek I think). Any standard compliant 1.1 disc should be playable in any standard compliant 1.0 player, but without access to the 1.1 specific features.

Note that the Denon guy then says "It’s a possibility, and that’s why we’re working very hard to make sure that our products will be okay with any previous discs and new discs.". So essentially, a buggy 1.0 player might get problem with a 1.1 disc. So what? It can be fixed...

This stuff just never seems to end with the other side. First samsung won't play BD-50, now this.

[JadedRaverLA]

Originally Posted by GaS

This stuff just never seems to end with the other side. First samsung won't play BD-50, now this.

But, according to those same people, BD50 was never going to exist, so it's a mute point, right?

Originally Posted by JonasK

From a content authoring point of view, there is no difference between "no memory card" and "out of memory" (which obviously needs to be handled). The disc will never get a "no memory card" message, just a "out of memory" message. And therefore there are not 5 profiles to accommodate for.

While we're just making stuff up, I say HD DVD has 6 profiles (1 for each player, plus the XBox add-on, since they all use different firmware) with three more coming from Toshiba. And, if we can count an out-of-space error as an extra profile that make 12, plus a not connected to internet error as a bonus 6 (we're up to 18) and the combo no internet plus no more storage error, and HD DVD has 24... plus new models coming in the near future which will easily add 3 profiles a piece! If all of Microsoft thought the way Amir did, they would never have gotten Windows 1.0 out the door... much less XP and Vista.

Oh, yeah. And everyone on AVS thinks I'm a 'Project Hydra' plant. I could really use the money, and I HAVE devoted an entire blog to Blu-ray/PS3 so I think I'm entitled. Please PM me, and I'll happily provide information on where to send the checks.

[phloyd]

I believe that BDLive players are required to have 'memory' for downloaded content.

On the other hand, I don't see why a FSP player would need to be any different from current players with respect to memory.

Amir is just trying to make things seem more complicated than they really are... just part of the usual smoke screen.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by phloyd

Amir is just trying to make things seem more complicated than they really are... just part of the usual smoke screen.

Absolutely agree and I will add that I think he relies on his messages to get spread out and amplified by the usual suspects over there thereby overwhelming the BR insiders with the SAME questions over and over and over and....

In fact today I saw someone post that a BD50 is upwards of $100 to produce...wonder where that came from...

[lch]

Before you put him on the spot , I think what Andy means is that you have 5 profiles because from content authoring point of view, now you need to accomodate every profile of the player with and without memory. In other words, in the field, you will have:

1. BD Profile 1.0 players
2. BD Profile 1.1 players with no memory
3. BD Profile 1.1. players with memory
4. BD Profile 2.0 players with no memory
5. BD profile 2.0 players with memory.

bd 2.0 player is mandatory with 1g memory.
so we can also say the same about them

1st gen player that can play normal disc
1st gen player that can play boiled disc
1st gen player that cannot play any disc
1st gen player that can play rumoured scifi tl51
2nd gen ...
3rd gen ...

[Neo65]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

Maybe this has been answered in the past...I am guessing it has, but a rumor is floating around at no other than AVS that 1.0 players may be unable to play 1.1 discs correctly. This apparently from a person at Denon...heres the quote and Link:




http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=906883

At some point in DVDs life time, there were DVDs released that wouldn't play on certain players. In some cases, if it's a lot of players, the DVD is judged defective. If it's only one player, the player is judged to be defective. Either there's firmware upgrades that solve the problem or the player gets panned everywhere and buyers stay away. At no time did people go to the DVD Forum and scream obscenities about incomplete specs.

What does this mean?

SPIN.....

[Hussla]

I have a Panasonic DVD player that I bought in 1999, it has NO zoom support and lacks a few other features.

It also struggles to play some modern DVD's.......it's also an EARLY EARLY gen unit.

Compatability issues is enevitable on early gen, nothing new here.

Although I dont buy the 1.0/1.1 crap until the discs come out and people actually use them for real, compared to HD-DUD fanbot Toshiba extremist claims.

[mngmikes]

Originally Posted by lch

bd 2.0 player is mandatory with 1g memory.
so we can also say the same about them

1st gen player that can play normal disc
1st gen player that can play boiled disc
1st gen player that cannot play any disc
1st gen player that can play rumoured scifi tl51
2nd gen ...
3rd gen ...

uhh the tl51 has been confirmed and accepted... that's the one thing i'm scared of... a triple layer combo disk that they are in the process of making that would be a trojan horse for the people who just purchase the regular dvd version and come to find they also have the hddvd version.

[kowhite]

Originally Posted by mngmikes

uhh the tl51 has been confirmed and accepted... that's the one thing i'm scared of... a triple layer combo disk that they are in the process of making that would be a trojan horse for the people who just purchase the regular dvd version and come to find they also have the hddvd version.

I think reasonably speaking, no studio is going to give away the HD version of a movie at DVD prices. It essentially removes any motivation for going to a more expensive to produce format at all.

It just makes no sense to do that whatsoever. And I cannot even imagine that they'd price the DVDs higher and cut into their sales. Simply put...I'm having a hard time seeing any studio do this for any title right now. It'd be pissing money down the toilet. Sure it could be a trojan horse...but it's one I can't see any studio getting on.

[jermwhl]

Even if there was an issue, i'm sure it could be fixed via firmware upgrades!

[mngmikes]

Originally Posted by kowhite

I think reasonably speaking, no studio is going to give away the HD version of a movie at DVD prices. It essentially removes any motivation for going to a more expensive to produce format at all.

It just makes no sense to do that whatsoever. And I cannot even imagine that they'd price the DVDs higher and cut into their sales. Simply put...I'm having a hard time seeing any studio do this for any title right now. It'd be pissing money down the toilet. Sure it could be a trojan horse...but it's one I can't see any studio getting on.

yeah i agree with ya... it was just an article i read talking about it

[bootman]

Originally Posted by jermwhl

Even if there was an issue, i'm sure it could be fixed via firmware upgrades!

If the player has the hardware to support it, absolutely!
But if it has 1.0 only hardware it can't go to 1.1 via firmware.
The PS3 may be different because the 1.1 features that a standalone requires hardware for, may be emulated via software. (Nice to have that cell processor!)
Everyone will have to wait until Sony releases something to be 100% sure.

But, as stated before, a 1.1 disk should play in a 1.0 player, just not have the 1.1 goodies.
It should be just like it is now with current 1.0 authored disks.

[kjack]

Originally Posted by Neo65

At some point in DVDs life time, there were DVDs released that wouldn't play on certain players...

Yes, we had to test every DVD movie that came out for the first three years when DVD was first introduced. We're doing the same thing for BD, and also have all the BD players that use our chip in the QA lab. Plus, we get advanced copies of movies from studios to test before they are released. Lots of work going on behind the scenes!

[blitz6speed]

Originally Posted by kjack

Yes, we had to test every DVD movie that came out for the first three years when DVD was first introduced. We're doing the same thing for BD, and also have all the BD players that use our chip in the QA lab. Plus, we get advanced copies of movies from studios to test before they are released. Lots of work going on behind the scenes!

Rest assured... We love you long time for it.

[gand41f]

(I posted this in the rant thread, but since this topic now has its own thread, let me copy it here too.)

Amazing how a little marketing jab turns into a full-fledged rumor and FUD.

Denon is planning to make a profile 1.1 player. They are one of the few (the only?) one that is going to make a 1.1 player without having any 1.0 offerings. So, the Denon guy drops a small hint -- not even provable, just a suggestion of possibility -- that some 1.0 players might have a problem with 1.1 discs. (Which is certainly possible -- anything that is not released might not work due to a bug. Duh.)

It's called marketing folks. Otherwise why would this guy even care? They don't even have a 1.0 player of their own!

Now, what do the DUD fanbois do? They are running around claiming that Denon found out that no 1.1 discs will work at all on 1.0 players.

Pathetic.

sheesh
gandalf

[Blaumann]

the Denon guy in the article also hints/states, that Denon wants to build a multiformat player with Blu-ray/HD DVD/SACD/DVD-A and whatnot. (Someone asked, if it could do vinyl as well )

So he "unintentionally" spreads some fear, that competitors might not test their players properly and there could be "problems". For me, this translates to "Best to wait for the Denon to be one the safe side. Even better, buy our upcoming multi-format player (for $$$$$) and don´t worry about anything anymore."

Imho the discs just have to be tested, so that none of the Java 1.1 code gets into the way of the 1.0 part. QC is all there is needed.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by Blaumann

Imho the discs just have to be tested, so that none of the Java 1.1 code gets into the way of the 1.0 part. QC is all there is needed.

Exactly. (Although 1.1 is not "Java", I'll let that slide. )

When 1.0 players were released, 1.1 was already been spec'd out. Also, 1.1 discs know exactly how to tell if a player is 1.0 or 1.1, so there is very little chance that the additional 1.1 stuff will mess up the basic features on a 1.0 player.

Now, on the other hand, TL51...oh, don't get me started.

enjoy
gandalf

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by blitz6speed

Rest assured... We love you long time for it.

LOL
See kjack, all that hard work gets rewarded in the end.