Do those DVD upconverters really work on HD TV's at improving the picture quality?

[Cobra33]

Do those DVD upconverters really work on HD TV's at improving the picture quality?
i just got those lord of the rings extended DVD's but they probably wont look like a bluray quality on my HDTV. however i went to walmart and saw they have these cheap $40 dvd upconverters that are supposed to make dvd's look near-HD. but does anyone know just how well these work? would it really improve the picture quality for a HDTV? has anyone here tried this out?

[PaulGo]

It depends on the circuitry in your TV. Most of the Blu-ray players and the PS3 have good to excellent upconversion. I would save my money on the $40 item and put it towards the Blu-ray player of PS3 that can do a much better job of upconversion. Just upconverting a movie won't do much unless the device has circuitry to enhance the picture quality and I doubt a $40 device has this capability.

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

I had an upconverting dvd player and it did make dvd movies look near hd quality. As a matter of fact, the upconverting dvd players do a better job with upconverting than a PS3. Thats what I saw so I now I'm expecting a debate to continue.

[Cobra33]

well i have a 50" panasonic HDTV i got on sale for $700, so i dont know what the details for that would be, but its a 720p and blurays look amazing on it. however i dont know if a $40 dvd upconverter would work that well on it. i wanted to know if anyone here ccan tell me that.

[JCP_San_Diego]

Your Blu-ray player probably does up-conversion. You shouldn't need a separate unit for that.

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

You can buy an upconverting dvd player on ebay for under $20 easily. Also like I said, my dvd player did a better job than my PS3.

Another thing, I'm assuming upconverted dvds are only 1080i/720p

[Cobra33]

also, not sure if anyone can post a comparion pic of a standard DVD resolution and a DVD thats been upconverted on a DVD upconverter.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Fanatic

Another thing, I'm assuming upconverted dvds are only 1080i/720p

If you are using component cables then yes, the output is limited to 1080i/720p. Most upconverting DVD players can do 1080p over HDMI and in regards to video game systems...

The PS3 does 1080p over HDMI and 1080i/720p over component regardless if your component input can handle 1080p.

The XBox 360 can also do 1080p over HDMI and VGA but no upconversion is done over componenent. This system, like the PS3, disregards the fact that your component input can do 1080p.

Bear in mind that this information is for DVD playback only.

[PaulGo]

Because of copy protection laws the upconvert can only be done over HDMI.

[hedliniv]

get the Oppo - 83 - It is the best bang for the buck - DVD upconverting as well as Blu-player (even plays 50 hz content!!)

[PaulGo]

Some interesting articles on this subject:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6859904-1.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9722853-1.html

http://www.hometheatermag.com/discpl...s3/index1.html

[krazeyeyez]

In my experience short of getting a "high end" upconverter these units do NOTHING your tv would not already do on its own. Any upconverter under $150 is going to be the same as your blu-ray player, and by that i mean crappy at dvd playback or delivering the same image your tv would allowing it to do the upconversion. (This of course excludes you richy rich OPPO owners *shakes fist* )

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

It depends on the circuitry in your TV.

No it doesn't.

There is no IMPROVING picture quality of a DVD. It is what it is. All "upconverters" do is upscale in a way that might be able to trick your eye into not noticing the low resolution as much. Basically, it goes from a low resolution picture made up of 3456 pixels and turns it into an equally low resolution picture made up of 2073600 pixels.

All TVs upscale anyway by the very nature of the native screen resolution not matching resolution of the video encoded on the DVD. There is some merit to higher quality players used for playing DVDs (but NOT standalone DVD players), but... the market is a minefield. Upconversion is snake oil sold to the foolish masses. Any 40 dollar HDMI DVD player will probably look essentially the same as if one were to receive 480p over component and have the TV upscale the video. A person is always better off using an old DVD player they already own on their HD set or buying a BD player or something like that if they want their player to output the DVD's 480i picture over 1080p.

I would save my money on the $40 item and put it towards the Blu-ray player of PS3 that can do a much better job of upconversion.

A quality standalone BD player can be had for about a third the price of a PS3 and will offer similar upscaling powers, i.e., roughly nothing.

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Fanatic

I had an upconverting dvd player and it did make dvd movies look near hd quality. As a matter of fact, the upconverting dvd players do a better job with upconverting than a PS3. Thats what I saw so I now I'm expecting a debate to continue.

Placebo effect. Placebo effect can explain many cognitive biases. It probably is also largely responsible for people thinking the PS3 offers superior quality in some way, because they like their PS3 in spite of its higher cost and don't like the idea that it is merely equal to other BD players and not truly superior.

(And before any PS3 fanboy tries to respond with a "but it plays games", "streams video", "can be upgraded easily", let me remind you: they offer equal picture/audio during video playback of both Blu-rays and the subject of this thread, DVDs. None of the additional features a PS3 has which might justify purchase for a prospective consumer are relevant to this discussion.)

Another thing, I'm assuming upconverted dvds are only 1080i/720p

No, upconverted DVDs are 480i. They're a 480i picture expressed over a HD signal, but the resolution and quality is still that of an SD source. GIGO. You can't make something from nothing.

[krazeyeyez]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

deleted to save space but dead on

Well said, i have grown tired of this discussion, in fact i usually just let it it go even when its my friends getting ready to waste their money. Can't believe HDTV has hit the penetration it has and people have yet to wise up. Surprised we havn't seen any near HD quality vhs converters yet. gotta be some potential profit in that right. The misconception that blu-ray players (in general) are any better at it is laughable as well.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

No it doesn't.

There is no IMPROVING picture quality of a DVD. It is what it is. All "upconverters" do is upscale in a way that might be able to trick your eye into not noticing the low resolution as much. Basically, it goes from a low resolution picture made up of 3456 pixels and turns it into an equally low resolution picture made up of 2073600 pixels.

Yes it does:

"Despite some of the marketing hype claiming that upscaling will make your DVDs appear in true high-def quality, the increase in picture quality will never come close to matching that of native HD material (HDTV broadcasts, HD DVD, and Blu-ray). Moreover, the video quality improvement is completely dependent on how good the upscaling and deinterlacing technology in your TV already is. Every HDTV is already capable of upscaling and deinterlacing; the only benefit an upscaling DVD player can bring to the table is to do it better. In some cases, the difference is easily discernible. In others, it's much more subtle. Ultimately, an upscaling DVD player might be able to make your DVDs look better, but the difference will be worth it only to "critical viewers" who pay close attention to image quality."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9722853-1.html

and:

DVD Upscaling
From DigiWiki

DVD Upscaling is the process of taking a standard DVD picture and upscaling the resolution to HD resolution (720p or 1080i/p). Some standalone DVD and Blu-ray/HD DVD players will include an upscaler to upscale DVD playback for HD displays.

When a DVD is played back at standard resolutions on a HD panel, the panel's internal circuitry will upscale the DVD picture (usually 480 or 576 lines) to the panel's native resolution (for HD, it is 720 or 1080 lines). However, the panel's upscaler may only perform the most simple method of upscaling, which makes the picture look blurry and lacking in definition.

DVD upscalers will employ special techniques (for example, sharpening filters) to upscale the picture to HD resolution, so that the picture is comparable to a native HD stream if you do not look too closely. But because upscaling cannot create information that isn't already there in the original picture, the details that the upscaled image has cannot be compared to that of a real HD image.

For a visual example, please refer to this page. This visual example uses a HD still image to explain what happens when you playback a DVD without upscaling, with upscaling and also the playback of a native HD video on a HD panel.

http://wiki.digital-digest.com/index.php/DVD_Upscaling

http://www.tppblog.com/upscale.html

[Dreemworx]

My BluRay player does upconvert DVD's to a decent "1080i" format. This can only be done via the HDMI cable.
I did alot of research on BluRay player reviews for this very function, the quality of upconverting for my small library of DVD's.

Ok, in the end I've only played 3 or 4 DVD's but, they looked decent. Somwhere between the PQ of DVD standard and 1080i HDTV feed, more towards the latter.

[ChrisV]

The simple is YES! it absolutely makes dvd's look better. Most CGI animated stuff will look like HD as well as many documentaries. I have many CGI movies on both DVD and Blu-ray and the upscaled dvd's look almost as good as the Blu-ray versions. It does depend alot on how good the original transfer on the dvd is but I have yet to see a dvd that did not look better when upscaled. Anyone who says there is no difference is either lying or needs glasses

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

Yes it does:

No.

I repeat, garbage in, garbage out. It cannot IMPROVE the picture quality, all it can do is minimize loss in the upscaling process and de-interlace in a possibly less observable way.

It cannot create something of value from nothing. If the picture is low resolution, it will always be poorly resolved. It can interpolate, but it cannot create.

The articles cited in this thread misuse the word "improve". They don't improve anything. All they do is minimize loss in the necessary upscale and de-interlacing, two features every single TV has by default, two features that aren't even going to be any better in a cheap DVD player than a typical HDTV. This line is especially egregious:

However, the panel's upscaler may only perform the most simple method of upscaling, which makes the picture look blurry and lacking in definition.

The thing that makes the picture look blurry and lacking in definition is the LOW RESOLUTION SOURCE. No matter what, it will ALWAYS be poorly resolved and lacking in definition.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

No.

I repeat, garbage in, garbage out. It cannot IMPROVE the picture quality, all it can do is minimize loss in the upscaling process and de-interlace in a possibly less observable way.

Yes! A good upscaler can improve on the picture quality by sampling the picture elements and actually improving what is shown on the screen. The PS3 has a very good upscaler and I have seen what it can do. The Oppo has an excellent upscaler and can even produce better results.

However it appears I can not convince you so let's just agree to disagree.

[boredandlazy]

Whether or not picture quality is improved as such, an important process for upscaling players is deinterlacing. Most HDTV's simply suck at it, but certain players like the OPPO BDP83 excel at it.
So a decent upscaling player is worth it IMO.