European BD sales...

[dirkblack]

Het everyone, i know this applies to europe, but i would like to hear your opinion on why you think this is happening in europe and not the U.S.

Note To Hollywood: How To Get People To Switch To Blu-Ray

Posted on Tuesday June 1, 2010, 09:29 by Helen O'Hara in Empire States




According to a press release out today, even the record-breaking sales of Avatar haven't lifted Blu-ray out of the doldrums. Screen Digest reports that, "A combination of a slower-than-expected fall in retail prices and the impact of the worst economic recession in living memory ensured that – unlike in the US – sales of Blu-ray hardware failed to live up to expectations in the key international markets in 2009. Furthermore, those homes that did acquire a BD player or PS3 by the end of the year bought fewer Blu-ray Discs (BDs) than anticipated – less than 1.5 titles per household on average. For many people, it seems, DVD remains ‘good enough’ for most titles and the additional cost of opting for a hi-def BD version simply cannot be justified in the current climate of austerity."

Now I've been hi-def now for a while, my collection of Blu-rays is steadily growing, and I love it. It's beautiful, it sounds good, and I'm even liking the blue plastic boxes. But I think I've already identified a reason why the wider film-loving public hasn't thrown their DVD players to the wind and signed up en masse to this ace new technology. And it's not the players being expensive (they're not, anymore) or the discs being pricey (although that's still true relative to DVD) or the fact that key films still aren't out on the format (Star Wars, where are you?). I don't even think it's just down to the recession or having less disposable income. I think people are just worried that they're being taken for fools.

Here's the thing: VHS was around for the guts of 20 years before DVD came along and thoroughly outclassed it. It's been less than 10 years since DVD really took over, and some of us are still only just getting around to replacing all our old titles (heck, I still don't own Grosse Pointe Blank on DVD, so I haven't seen it in waaaay too long). Blu-ray's been in the works since the ink was dry on the "DVD sales hit one million" news stories, and there's an argument that it's just been too quick. People don't see as radical a difference this time around to justify that new investment: sure, Blu-ray's decidedly better if you have a big shiny TV, but to the untrained eye it doesn't appear to be the quantum leap that VHS-to-DVD was.

What's more, when DVD came in with all its bells and whistles and extras, the irritating practice of double-dipping releases really got going. You could buy the first release disc, with maybe a trailer on it and an animated menu, but a few months later would come the Special Edition, then the Collector's Edition, then the Ultimate Super-Duper-We're-Not-Kidding-You-Need-This-Edition, and consumers would find themselves continually assaulted by the feeling that the version they had was only for rubes. Having bought some discs two or three times already, people aren't prepared to upgrade again. They're already feeling hard done by.

And studios aren't helping themselves either. Blu-rays are big enough that they can hold as much information as you can throw at them - standard-setting releases like Blade Runner: Final Cut or Close Encounters come packed with every conceivable version of the film and every possible extra to boot. In other words, not just the standard DVD extras from the most recent release (or even a longer-ago release, or even fewer extras than the DVD boasted, as is the case with some Blu-rays) but specially-cut new material or long forgotten snippets. I know there's been a rush to get some films on to Blu-ray to boost the selection, but we need all discs to be up to this standard to make it worth shelling out for.

And worryingly, elsewhere on Blu-ray, the double-dipping has started again. At least one recent major studio release already has a standard and a Deluxe edition, and frankly that's irritating. Now I'm sure there's some explanation for it - maybe the studio committed to a day-and-date release with the DVD and then not all the extras were ready - but it risks turning people off. Enough Blu-ray releases have been pushed back or delayed that it's hardly an unprecedented move to hold it back and pack stuff on if something like that was the reason, and if you've got leftovers, heck, that's what the BD Live function is for: to allow you to add in material later and give users more value for their money. The relative lack of extra goodies on the potentially-ace BD-Live, while we're on the subject, doesn't exactly do the cause any good either. Double-dipping destroys consumer goodwill and irritates the serious fans who are your highest consumers.

So Hollywood and Techno-ville, please note. If you want us to invest in your new toys, please, for the love of Zeus, give us something in return. Promise us that we will only ever need one Blu-ray for each film, and that they will therefore represent value for money and a return on our investment as well as ace picture and sound. Promise us that the extras will be spiffier and better and will include every extra previously released. Do that, and film fans all over will sign up with happy hearts and buy every disc you throw at them. Everybody wins; I promise.

[Suntory_Times]

Just sounds like a rant about double dipping.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

Just sounds like a rant about double dipping.

I got the same out of it as well.

[doctorsteve]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

Just sounds like a rant about double dipping.

Well, it is - It seemed to start off as a complaint about droopy sales, then slide into a commentary as to why the OP hasn't gotten gung-ho about Blu buying.

But, comma, however - I agree. Make a good quality edition, sell it at a reasonable price. Later, if you want to sell a stripped down version - so be it. But the reverse drives me nuts.

Cheers,

Doc

[SpaceDog]

I think Blu-ray is doing well.

That said, I agree with the double-dip perspective. I've been hesitant to upgrade certain titles from DVD to blu-ray because I feel certain I'm going to get double dipped. I haven't upgraded any of my James Bond or Star Trek titles yet as I'm sure something better is coming.

Unfortunately studios have a catch 22 with whether to get titles out now, or get titles out right, in an uber-edition.

WB has been doing well by this on their classics - Wizard of Oz, Gone With The Wind, but they haven't been so good with modern fare. I didn't buy Harry Potter 6 because the uber special editions are already announced, already planned - but the stripped edition is being released anyway.

This is also changing the way I pick up TV on blu-ray. With DVD, I'd buy season after season of TV shows, but save for a couple of titles I feel confident won't get a special series boxed set, I will wait for the series to end and the complete boxed set of the series to arrive.

[Banned User]

I completely agree with the OP. I lot of the rereleases make me write off studios and less likely to buy anything new. Waiting until titles are in bargain bins before I buy. I have no problems when the stripped down version and SE edition are released at the same time or I have prior knowledge a better version is coming down the line.

[doctorsteve]

Since Poltergeist is getting a non-digibook release, I think I'm going to wait for Willy Wonka and the Chocolate factory to get the same non-digi release for a lower price.

[Taat]

Am sure bluray will grow in sales soon.

[blacklion]

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

I think Blu-ray is doing well.

In North America, yes...relatively But OP notes -

Screen Digest reports that, "A combination of a slower-than-expected fall in retail prices and the impact of the worst economic recession in living memory ensured that – unlike in the US – sales of Blu-ray hardware failed to live up to expectations in the key international markets in 2009.

She then proceeds to 'rant' about double-dipping.

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

It takes time for people to convert. Just like it awhile for people to convert from vhs to dvd. DVD to Blu-ray may take longer because blu-ray and hi-def are more expensive and the quantities are limited for rentals. A lot of people in my area still rent and dvd still takes up most of the space. Blu-ray is growing at a steady pace but it'll take time. Blu-ray will still be around in the next 10 to 15 years. End of rant.

[robertc88]

The best motivation for many will be when there is no choice.

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

Originally Posted by robertc88

The best motivation for many will be when there is no choice.

+1 Lol!!!

[blacklion]

In which case, not likely anytime soon

[seeweda]

Europe is going through the same struggles the US market went through a couple years ago our economy is just not starting to turn around. I'm guessing Europe will see some of the crazy pricing on players and movies this Christmas that the US saw last year.

As for the double dipping thing that has lessened greatly as studios are realizing what fans want. Rather than just rushing a title out they are taking their time to do it right or at the very least they are informing costumers another version will follow for those who are willing to wait.

The studios also tend to double dip the same titles over and over again so fans of those movies should know by now something better will come out eventually.

[Atreyu]

If I represent the average buyer, and I'm sure I probably dont, I prefer to see the older catalogue titles get revitalized on blu. Now don't get me wrong, I love the newer films too, but seeing older titles on this new format getting a nice to excellent restoration is what really gets me excited. (Perfect example: The African Queen, what an awesome restoration!!!) And that includes titles from every decade since there have been films. Now I do realize that restoration is not cheap to do, but maybe in a few years or so if blu keeps on increasing in sales, there may be less expensive, effective ways to fix that.
My point is, some people may not have a problem of replacing their standard dvds with blus if the quality is there but sometimes the studios release sub par quality blus which makes new blu users go what the f***! Why should I spend more to update my standard dvds when the blus don't look any better? But that is one blu users opinion.

[pickfair]

for me the issue is the inconsistency from the studios. I have many DVD's I've had to keep, because all the extras did not make it onto the BD. I now toss the BD packaging, and put the disc into the DVD box, replacing the SD disc, so I still only take up room of one disc on the shelf.

as to double dipping, perhaps the author is stunned at the arrogance of New Line releasing the Readers Digest version of LOTR. Those edited films are junk, and I for one did not buy them. The only acceptable versions are the EE's. But it takes will power to wait If people buy into double dipping, why would studios stop doing it?

[Leterface]

I think the biggest reason for slow sales internationally are the software prices - greedy merchants don't lower the software prices. In many cases the prices for new titles have got even more expensive when actually prices should go down along with the bad economical situation in many countries.

[Anthony P]

I agree with most people here, it is some lady that wanted to make a nonesensical rant about Dbldip and the rest is just delusions made up to support her rant. If there where numbers showing that BD is stagnating or in the doldrums, then show them, but every time I see wishy-washy text like "key international markets" I think BS. And with a minute of research I found many articles with numbers including this one which I picked because it is more concise and easier to quote

http://www.dvd-intelligence.com/disp...hp?article=904

In 2009, sales of Blu-ray Discs grew 109% and the sales figures for Q1 2010 – more than 8.4 million discs sold between January and March 2010 – suggest Blu-ray Disc sales will continue to match this level in 2010.
....
The sales results in this announcement are derived from official European market performance figures and include the following countries: Belgium, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and UK.

I can’t see how a reasonable person would consider more then doubled as doldrums but I guess she used the other key European nations

I also don't get the issue with dbldips, yes I do it some times but other times I don't, that is the beauty of it, it is your choice.

[Terjyn]

I don't understand how double dipping is a Blu-Ray thing.

Lots of DVDs get the "Standard" treatment followed months later by the "Deluxe" followed again by the "Super-special Gold Box" followed by the "oh-my-god Platinum edition".

So...what reason would studios have to STOP double dipping in the transition from DVD to Blu-Ray?

I know she mentioned this, but she failed to even hint at why she'd expect studios to stop. A reason to buy Blu-Ray is hardly a real reason for a format that's growing well enough on its own.

[blacklion]

Well, perhaps if the studios and blu-ray champions had not made such a big song and dance about the 50GB available on BD during the format wars, the 'ranter' would not now be expecting the studios to release one-and-only definitive cuts of new BD releases on day one

In her own words -

Blu-rays are big enough that they can hold as much information as you can throw at them - standard-setting releases like Blade Runner: Final Cut or Close Encounters come packed with every conceivable version of the film and every possible extra to boot. In other words, not just the standard DVD extras from the most recent release (or even a longer-ago release, or even fewer extras than the DVD boasted, as is the case with some Blu-rays) but specially-cut new material or long forgotten snippets.

My understanding of the above is that she expects all those gigabytes in 50GB to be fully put to use. She does not want empty GB on her BDs

Surely, its not unreasonable that she expects a superior value proposition from 50GBs and BD Live on blu-ray?

Promise us that we will only ever need one Blu-ray for each film, and that they will therefore represent value for money and a return on our investment as well as ace picture and sound. Promise us that the extras will be spiffier and better and will include every extra previously released.

Also, re-read her complaint that BD LIve has largely failed to live up to expectation -

...that's what the BD Live function is for: to allow you to add in material later and give users more value for their money. The relative lack of extra goodies on the potentially-ace BD-Live, while we're on the subject, doesn't exactly do the cause any good either.