M$ demo's it's 360HDDVD ad on drive.

[BTBuck1]

Artilce here:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18809


Collins pledges to keep costs low for consumers
Microsoft has offered the first real demonstration of its external HD-DVD drive for the Xbox 360 since its fleeting appearance at E3, but remains silent on pricing or a confirmed release date.
Demonstrating the device to attendees at the DVD Forum in Los Angeles, Microsoft's senior program manager, Kevin Collins, refused to be drawn on the exact price point for the device - stating only that it would be among the least expensive of the HD DVD players to reach market.
"All the audio and video processing is done inside the Xbox," Collins stated, noting that research indicates the majority of Xbox 360 owners already have HD televisions. The drive will provide them with all the other required equipment to watch HD DVD movies.
"This gives consumers choice and keeps their cost down," he added.
Sony's rival Blu-ray format, the drive for which will be built into the PlayStation 3 console as standard, is slated for a worldwide in November. Microsoft has chosen to support HD-DVD instead, and insists that it will keep the HD-DVD drive as an external device for the Xbox 360 in a bid to offer consumers a choice.
Whilst the picture quality has been deemed equal to most HD-DVD drives demonstrated at the event, the question of cost - something which every consumer is going to be acutely aware of - remains unanswered at this stage.
Microsoft is expected to launch the drive in time for Christmas, and it's thought that a specific release date and price point will be announced shortly.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Artilce here:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18809


Collins pledges to keep costs low for consumers
Microsoft has offered the first real demonstration of its external HD-DVD drive for the Xbox 360 since its fleeting appearance at E3, but remains silent on pricing or a confirmed release date.
Demonstrating the device to attendees at the DVD Forum in Los Angeles, Microsoft's senior program manager, Kevin Collins, refused to be drawn on the exact price point for the device - stating only that it would be among the least expensive of the HD DVD players to reach market.
"All the audio and video processing is done inside the Xbox," Collins stated, noting that research indicates the majority of Xbox 360 owners already have HD televisions. The drive will provide them with all the other required equipment to watch HD DVD movies.
"This gives consumers choice and keeps their cost down," he added.
Sony's rival Blu-ray format, the drive for which will be built into the PlayStation 3 console as standard, is slated for a worldwide in November. Microsoft has chosen to support HD-DVD instead, and insists that it will keep the HD-DVD drive as an external device for the Xbox 360 in a bid to offer consumers a choice.
Whilst the picture quality has been deemed equal to most HD-DVD drives demonstrated at the event, the question of cost - something which every consumer is going to be acutely aware of - remains unanswered at this stage.
Microsoft is expected to launch the drive in time for Christmas, and it's thought that a specific release date and price point will be announced shortly.

I'll be shocked if this costs anything more than $199 to match with the $500 PS3 out of the box.



You know...if nothing else...I think I agree with Microsoft's attitude and approach on this whole thing more.

Keep the friggin' format war out of the gaming world and keep that stuff optional.

Why?

Because I think Sony could have come out with a PS3 that was no more than $399, which it needed to be, crank out the awesome games, maybe have an optional Blu-Ray drive for it for people that want it...and who knows? A few years down the road, you gradually shift towards the Blu-Ray being your "main drive" and so on.

Blu-Ray will NOT benefit games for several years, at least. You will see NO advantages to the use of Blu-Ray vs. whatever games you see on the Xbox360. It just isn't going to show up for a while, at least.


We've all seen how things can change and flux in the gaming world.

Ya feel me?

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by JTK

Blu-Ray will NOT benefit games for several years, at least. You will see NO advantages to the use of Blu-Ray vs. whatever games you see on the Xbox360. It just isn't going to show up for a while, at least.

I wouldn't be too certain about that.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I was a beta tester for a couple of Massively Multiplayer Online Role-playing Games. (I don't really know why they offered it to me. Maybe they wanted the "old geezer" perspective.) The relevant point was that one of these games a few years back actually required a greater than 13 GB download. I don't see the top of the line new games of that genre being much smaller and as time moves forward these games will only get more massive (no pun intended).

How are they going to issue these games? Multiple DVDs? I doubt it if a better (i.e., single disk) option is available. They'll be on HD DVD or Blu-ray.

Does anyone believe there won't be games within the next year or so which have in line video clips at HDTV resolutions -- maybe even 1080p? They already exist in some games at SD; they'll be there in HD in new games. That alone might push some games over the single DVD limit.

Unfortunately, in the computer/CE world everything expands to fill the alloted storage space -- and sometimes all too rapidly. I remember when the computer OS, MS Word and the document I was working on would fit on a single 400k disk. Now none of the three will fit on that disk (well maybe a small document with virtually no graphics would).

[phloyd]

Sony want the console to last for a long time - the larger capacity drive will easily be needed within that time frame.

Microsoft seems to be happier to release consoles on a shorter time frame, so perhaps it does not matter so much to them.

[Applefiend]

People are looking to build games with ten times the detail of current generation games. Deeper textures, more complicated meshes in low and high res versions, normal maps, high quality sound and soundtracks. HD quality full motion video. Current games are about 2.5 to 7GB, do the math, all that data has to go somewhere.

360 is built to last 3 to 4 years before it's replaced, Sony are looking at a ten year lifespan, no way is DVDROM good enough for ten years.

[marzetta7]

Can't say I'm feelin ya. I think Microsoft's attitude toward the whole format war, is nothing more of a ploy to delay a clear format war winner from emerging and for their own means--downloadable content.

Moreover the PS3 didn't "need to be" $399 as you stated. It would have been nice, yes, but it certainly didn't "need to be." I don't see how people complain about the price point of the PS3, I really don't. Especially when you compare it to the Toshiba player. With the PS3 you're getting a more capable and more functional device for the same price. Why is the price for the PS3 deemed so expensive by some, but the Toshiba isn't when they are both the same price? And you get a more capable device in the PS3 to boot.

Furthermore Microsoft's attitude is one that is flawed as add-on devices for gaming systems are historically failures, and I don't see this--the XBox 360 add-on--going any other way. Plus, did they mention what the output resolution was on this add-on? The last I read, was that it output only 720P. Pretty lame.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by marzetta7

Can't say I'm feelin ya. I think Microsoft's attitude toward the whole format war, is nothing more of a ploy to delay a clear format war winner from emerging and for their own means--downloadable content.

True enough. But before that happens, they're going to be making a big pay day on something else: VC-1.

And it deserves its kudos: It's a hell of a good codec.

Moreover the PS3 didn't "need to be" $399 as you stated. It would have been nice, yes, but it certainly didn't "need to be." I don't see how people complain about the price point of the PS3, I really don't. Especially when you compare it to the Toshiba player. With the PS3 you're getting a more capable and more functional device for the same price. Why is the price for the PS3 deemed so expensive by some, but the Toshiba isn't when they are both the same price? And you get a more capable device in the PS3 to boot.

Gamers don't know any of this. They don't care. They don't care about HD-DVD. They don't care about Blu-Ray. A lot of them don't know even know what this stuff is. A lot of them, even those that already own 360's, don't even own HDTV's yet.

We just gotta get past this!


Non applicable. Two completely different markets. You just have to realize that.



Some of you folks clearly are not gamers and/or nothing about the gaming market.

You're trying to argue this from an AV and HT standpoint and you're preaching to the choir at that point. You're also falling on deaf ears.




All of my comments are in reference specifically to the GAMING market and the GAMERS. Forget all the rest of that crap.

From the GAMERS standpoint, $500-$600 for a GAME CONSOLE is really goingt to be pushing it, to say the least. That's all they're going to know about and see.

The gamer that has to have his Madden and Tony Hawk every year will walk into that store and see largely the same games on BOTH consoles and he'll see that they look the same, sound the same, and then he's simply going to look at cost and make his move.

SHORT TERM: Guess which game console almost assuredly will benefit from that? The 360! You can count on it.

The PS3 will sell like hotcakes through the holidays for two reasons: Pure hype and the Playstation brand name. Period.

The shortage is going to be at least as bad as the 360's was, so I'm looking forward to my Ebay pay day. Sony themselves have pretty much assured that there will be a shortage, thanks to the madness of attempting a simultaneous worldwide launch, and if you believe these reports about retailers who sell more Sony wares get more preorder allotments "rewarded" to them.





Regardless of hype or rhetoric, the PS3 is a videogame console that just happens to be able to play Blu-Ray movies. That's it. That's all it is.

WE know that $600 for a Blu-Ray player that plays games is a piece of cake. Slam dunk. No brainer.

The majority of typical gamers don't know and DON'T CARE.

Go to www.penny-arcade.com. Go to their forums. Go to www.gamefaqs.com. Go to their forums. (I warn you: You'll lose IQ points in this place.)

But you're going to see in a matter of a few minutes where the pulse of the gamers are, and it's not with the PS3.

If Sony can't get the gamers behind them, you can forget the rest of this stuff.






Maybe in a few years, you'll see games that take advantage of the Blu-Ray specs and you'll start seeing appreciable differences between PS3 games and Xbox360 games. Two years minimum, if I had to guess.

You can read up on how many of the game developers are NOT happy with the PS3 dev kits. It's a ***** to work for. That means more time and effort.

That's all well documented all over the place. Their dev kits are very complicated.





This will be slow and gradual.

Long term? Yeah, the PS3 could end up paying off in spades, lasting 10 years, and pigs may fly out of my window tonight.

Who cares about 10 years? The hell with that.

I know Blu-Ray zealots cling to these kinds of arguments to help them the weather the storms they're in right now, and that's great. I'm right there with you. I believe in the promises and potential of the format which is why I find what's happening now to be so infuriating and intolerable.



I'm talking about NOW. I'm talking about when this expensive SOB hits the streets in time for Christmas of 2006 and it damn well better have some killer app games ready to go.

It's all about the games. It doesn't matter what the Toshiba HD-DVD player costs because it doesn't apply. Not the same market. Gamers don't give a crap about it. Remove it from your minds. Doesn't count.




It's just more guesswork and what if's. We simply can't know what's going to happen in the next DECADE past guessing potentials based off of paper specs that haven't been delivered yet.

Furthermore Microsoft's attitude is one that is flawed as add-on devices for gaming systems are historically failures, and I don't see this--the XBox 360 add-on--going any other way.

I don't either. But at least it's a choice.

If the gamers don't give a crap? They don't have to buy it. It's that simple. It's not an integral part of the system that jacks up costs, take it or leave it.

Again: I'm trying to convey to you how the average/majority of gamers are viewing this thing. They don't CARE.



And if the current Xbox360 gets knocked down for a successor in 4 years. So what?

These game consoles typically last about 5-6 years, at most, and then it's time to phase them out for the next model.

The PS2 has lasted a long time. Consequently, it's long in the tooth. It's been showing its age for quite some time. I wish Sony had knocked it off a bit sooner myself.



So maybe the PS3 sticks around and a newer Xbox comes out in 3-4 years.

Big deal. Choose the left hand approach or the right hand approach.





See: Sony's biggest problem here, and risk, is they're almost getting too ahead of themselves.

Tech geeks and AV enthusiasts like us don't even count in this equation. We're all going to buy hot @#$% like this at the drop of a hat, without question. $500? $600? For this? No problem.

Average gamers? Problem.



I think they could have saved Blu-Ray for a PS4, myself. By that point, this tech isn't so bleeding edge and can be included at signifigantly lower costs, unlike now.

At that point, Sony wouldn't have to take near as much of a hit on the sales of hardware like we know they're going to be on the PS3's. In the gaming world alone, the market leader has the "luxury" to sell hardware at a bit of a loss because they count on making a killing on software and making it all back in spades.

It may work for Sony again. It's amazing to think that a $600 PS3 is still going to be selling at a little bit of a loss, but Blu-Ray ain't cheap!

Plus, did they mention what the output resolution was on this add-on? The last I read, was that it output only 720P. Pretty lame.

Meh.

It's high def, isn't it?

Once yet again: A lot of these gamers don't even own HD sets at all, period. Including a lot of current 360 owners.

It's an amazing phenomenon I've seen crop up lately. This implied or explicit idea that anything less than 1080p somehow isn't true HD and is crap.

Sorry, it's not true.

1080p is nice but it's overrated.


WELL IMPLEMENTED 1080i is indistinguishable from 1080p.

720p? Looks pretty damned good the last time I checked.




Here's a real mind blower to chew on. File this under "what if/believe it only if you see it.":


We've seen passing mentions of this before, but imagine if: Down the road the Xbox360 could have both BD and HD DVD add on drives. It's not beyond the realm of possibility at all, although I think that's a LONG ways from now.

As best I understand it, they could do it and it would not violate any agreement on so called universal players and the rest of it.

I always found it rather amazing that MS even mentioned, out in the open, during the climate of a format war about to kick off, the possibility of adding a BD add on.

I've always said that: If they REALLY had had a hard on for HD-DVD above all else, that sucker would have been ready to go on the 360 a lot sooner and a lot more aggressively than what we're seeing now.

To that end, if they really wanted to try and screw things up...wouldn't they find a way to try and cut off VC-1 from ever being used on Blu-Ray?

But of course not. That's the whole point.

VC-1. It is a great codec, but it's one of MS's babies and I think it's the real core of this entire "war."

It's not a format war. It's a codec war.

And guess what? MS would be just dandy and fine if BOTH formats eventually run with VC-1.

Guess who's getting the big pay day no matter what?

I'm certainly not trying to defend or put over MS, but take a step back and look at the entire, big picture more pragmatically and objectively (some of you, at least.)

[BTBuck1]

Most people who are gamers (especially in mid to late 20's to early 30's) are electronics enthusiasts. yeah you have your young kid gamer who plays on a 13" tube in his room for the "game" but even micrososft through survey's found that most of it's xbox360 users had an HDTV which is why they decided to make the HDDVD drive, to give options.

IMO sony is smart, they know you have to force the general population into things. The government knew this too...this is why they forced the HDTV mandate for 2009 (which has been changed like what 3 times?) people are cheap & stubborn, if they are happy with something then they stick with it. If they are forced into adopting something...all of a sudden they are stoked with the new technology and embracing it. (my dad is a perfect example of this) he loves technology, he's just to stuck in his ways and cheap to stay on top of things like i do. He can be sold on anything "cool" he just has to be "Sold".

PS3 will be a trojan horse for Blu Ray, but not alone. You have to remember there will be 5 players available from a miriad of manufacturers this fall. That is a huge penetration of market for Blu Ray. These are facts that are very difficult to ignore. And I'm sorry but if you look at these players turned off, and sitting on the shelf...and a customer asks about the 4-5 blu -ray players and then he says "whats up with the loner over there-Tosh HDA1" it's gonna look pretty bleak for HDDVD when they are the only singer trying to sing over the whole choir of blu-ray...they just aren't going to be heard. The BDA has alot more backers hat can fund this campaign...and there could come a point very soon where it is just to much for the stock holders to bear, watching Toshiba try and take on the whole CE industry and Film industry with their product-HDDVD.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Most people who are gamers (especially in mid to late 20's to early 30's) are electronics enthusiasts. yeah you have your young kid gamer who plays on a 13" tube in his room for the "game" but even micrososft through survey's found that most of it's xbox360 users had an HDTV which is why they decided to make the HDDVD drive, to give options.

IMO sony is smart, they know you have to force the general population into things. The government knew this too...this is why they forced the HDTV mandate for 2009 (which has been changed like what 3 times?) people are cheap & stubborn, if they are happy with something then they stick with it. If they are forced into adopting something...all of a sudden they are stoked with the new technology and embracing it. (my dad is a perfect example of this) he loves technology, he's just to stuck in his ways and cheap to stay on top of things like i do. He can be sold on anything "cool" he just has to be "Sold".

All true.

Now here's where an apparent contradiction happen.

If all of the above is true...how do you come to this:

PS3 will be a trojan horse for Blu Ray, but not alone. You have to remember there will be 5 players available from a miriad of manufacturers this fall.

All costing at least a grand. Some $1500. That's out of reach for everyone except the hardcore elite and early adopter types.

Unless we get a surprise, the PS3 is THE entry level player for Blu-Ray. Period. Take it or leave it.

That is POTENTIALLY huge penetration of market for Blu Ray. These are facts that are very difficult to ignore.

You forgot the key word that I put in there for you, bolded.

These are speculative what ifs, not facts.

It hasn't happened yet, Brian. When/if it does, THEN it is a fact.

And I'm sorry but if you look at these players turned off, and sitting on the shelf...and a customer asks about the 4-5 blu -ray players and then he says "whats up with the loner over there-Tosh HDA1" it's gonna look pretty bleak for HDDVD when they are the only singer trying to sing over the whole choir of blu-ray...they just aren't going to be heard.

We'll see.

I know your store has been doing a wonderful job pimping Blu-Ray and burying HD-DVD to a point where one must wonder if they've deliberately chosen a side or not.


I don't know if it's official corporate or unofficial, but it's pretty obvious by now which way Best Buy is swinging with all of this...

The BDA has alot more backers hat can fund this campaign...and there could come a point very soon where it is just to much for the stock holders to bear, watching Toshiba try and take on the whole CE industry and Film industry with their product-HDDVD.

I agree. If all else fails, sheer attrition and market power alone virtually guarantee a Blu-Ray victory.


I just hope that when that time comes we aren't sitting in a sea of expensive medicority like what they're pushing out now.

Looks like Blu -Ray is going to muscle it's way into homes too

Yup.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by JTK

I know your store has been doing a wonderful job pimping Blu-Ray and burying HD-DVD to a point where one must wonder if they've deliberately chosen a side or not.


I don't know if it's official corporate or unofficial, but it's pretty obvious by now which way Best Buy is swinging with all of this...

Quite frankly, if it wasn't for BB the only place you'd be able to find HDDVD would be the internet. Walmart has packed them up and thrown them in the warehouses & circuit city only has it on their website. Best Buy consistantly has the movies displayed and has had the HDDVD in the advertisement on sunday twice, blu-ray only once (on launch). Also in our store particularly the HDDVD gets it's own Hometheatre experience room with JBL Surrouns sound, Yamaha 5990 and a 46" LCD samsung flatpanel with "SAHARA" playing on it, (thanks to provenflipper setting it up-a BR supporter) So I don't know where you get these opinions from...probably the paranoid early adopting bias idiots on avsforums, come on man...you know better than to buy into this crap.

Work is work and we are there to make a dollar and do whats right for the customer, if Blu-Ray is right for my customer (they want HD but Disney,Sony & Fox is important to them) then thats what they get.

If they are on a budget and really like Fast & the Furious and Van Helsing I sell em HDDVD. I show customers both displays and despite the HDDVD having a stellar movie with an excellent surround setup and leather chairs to sit in, most still walk away with a BR player in my store....I don't force anything on anyone, and I don't share my opinion as it is against S.O.P. to do so. I explain benefits of both (going as far as to explain that some BR transfers have received poor PQ reviews, which I shouldn't and don't have to do) Despairaging products can result in immediate termination if say a vendor came in and over heard an employee bad mouthing the Kodak camera's for example.

Hope this helps clarify your confusion on this matter a bit.

Current stock of HD-A1 in my store: 4
Current stock of BD-P1000 in my store: 0

Average sales per week HD-A1 my store: .39 units
Average sales per week BD-p1000 my store .79 units

District averages of sales per week of units is similar.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Quite frankly, if it wasn't for BB the only place you'd be able to find HDDVD would be the internet. Walmart has packed them up and thrown them in the warehouses

I never even saw any of this stuff at my WM's. BD. HD-DVD. Any of it.

& circuit city only has it on their website.

Yup.

Best Buy consistantly has the movies displayed and has had the HDDVD in the advertisement on sunday twice, blu-ray only once (on launch). Also in our store particularly the HDDVD gets it's own Hometheatre experience room with JBL Surrouns sound, Yamaha 5990 and a 46" LCD samsung flatpanel with "SAHARA" playing on it, (thanks to provenflipper setting it up-a BR supporter) So I don't know where you get these opinions from...probably the paranoid early adopting bias idiots on avsforums, come on man...you know better than to buy into this crap.

It's been inconsistent across the country.

In some cases, you're right. YOU may be doing things right and YOUR Best Buy may be playing it straight, but that's not a rock solid guarantee across the entire country by any means.


I know which AVS forumers are probably Bs'ing that, but there's a few of those stories that ring true as well.

I also have my own friends and contacts that have no connections with AVS that have told me some good stories, bad stories, and ugly stories.

Welcome to retail.


Oh well.

It's really pulling hairs anyways. It doesn't change anything.

Work is work and we are there to make a dollar and do whats right for the customer, if Blu-Ray is right for my customer (they want HD but Disney,Sony & Fox is important to them) then thats what they get.

That's where it becomes very questionable in the here and now, if we're really going to talk about doing right by your customers.

If they are on a budget and really like Fast & the Furious and Van Helsing I sell em HDDVD. I show customers both displays and despite the HDDVD having a stellar movie with an excellent surround setup and leather chairs to sit in, most still walk away with a BR player in my store....I don't force anything on anyone, and I don't share my opinion as it is against S.O.P. to do so. I explain benefits of both (going as far as to explain that some BR transfers have received poor PQ reviews, which I shouldn't and don't have to do) Despairaging products can result in immediate termination if say a vendor came in and over heard an employee bad mouthing the Kodak camera's for example.

I know YOU don't, so please don't take any of my comments personally.

Hope this helps clarify your confusion on this matter a bit.

Believe me, I couldn't be more lucid and less confused.

Current stock of HD-A1 in my store: 4
Current stock of BD-P1000 in my store: 0

Average sales per week HD-A1 my store: .39 units
Average sales per week BD-p1000 my store .79 units

District averages of sales per week of units is similar.

Ok.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by JTK

I know which AVS forumers are probably Bs'ing that,

A Man with Plaz & a Rod which is Joe?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

A Man with Plaz & a Rod which is Joe?

Tip of the iceburg, my man.

[zombie]

I think this is what all of us have been wondering since Blu-ray's launch... why hasn't Blu-ray already kicked the crap out of HD DVD? Sometimes all the support in the world means jack if you can't deliver on the bottom line. Blu-ray needs to be the best it can be if the BDA wants to get the average joe on board. Otherwise most will be more than content to stick with DVD.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by nyg

I think this is what all of us have been wondering since Blu-ray's launch... why hasn't Blu-ray already kicked the crap out of HD DVD? Sometimes all the support in the world means jack if you can't deliver on the bottom line. Blu-ray needs to be the best it can be if the BDA wants to get the average joe on board. Otherwise most will be more than content to stick with DVD.

And even at that, average Joe is years away from any of this, no matter what.

A complete non factor.

[hmurchison]

Optical drives are simply a distribution method. In 10 years game consoles will be using flash or some other form of non-volatile solid state memory.

I enjoy reading how people are buying into the how "size" thing for games. It's like a study into the sociological effects of advertising and human nature.

Games are unlikely to coe close to stressing Blu-Rays capacity. Game developers have to be wary of using textures that are too big because this slows the graphics down. With an internet connection and HHD a PS3 can easily store data that would not fit on a DVD to memory card or HDD.

Microsofts plan is more sensible and we'll see how well they do against the PS3 this xmas in head to head. The PS3 will be new but the Xbox is cheaper and there will be some sort of incentive to grab an Xbox.

This is really going to be interesting. It's defiitely a gamble and I want to see if Sony comes up aces.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by nyg

I think this is what all of us have been wondering since Blu-ray's launch... why hasn't Blu-ray already kicked the crap out of HD DVD? Sometimes all the support in the world means jack if you can't deliver on the bottom line. Blu-ray needs to be the best it can be if the BDA wants to get the average joe on board. Otherwise most will be more than content to stick with DVD.

Keep it real...have either of these formats really launched at all? It took DVD nearly 3 years to get any real steam going. It will probably take these the same if not more since these formats in the eyes of some not leaps & bounds above what they already have (DVD)

Hell I don't mind being the Elite that has a Blu Ray player for a few years before it catches on, so long as i'm not short changed with waiting on new releases for months.

[partridge]

JTK - Microsofts own research suggests the majority of Xbox360 owners own an HDtv.

Gamers know more than you think, regardless of the trash gamer forums you visit. I'm a gamer, and I'm an AV enthusiast, for me the two go together more than ever these days. See my opening line, these guys picked up an HDtv specifically to play HD games on.

A major reason for me buying an HDtv was the eventual purchase of either a 360 or a PS3.

HD movies and games are not entirely separate markets; one of the big sways for me toward PS3 is that it is also a hi-def movie player.

I would also expect future tv ads for blu-ray movies to push the fact that they can be played on the PS3.

when I look at what the PS3 can do (what I know of now, let alone what else sony has up its sleeve) it is clearly value for money.

I know plenty about the gamer and the gaming market and I see little problem with the adoption rate of the PS3 for gaming, regardless of the price. Who voted you the average gamer spokesman?

The PS3 is not a games console that happens to play blu-ray. It was designed from the outset to be a high definition entertainment device that plays games and movies and a lot more. Please get your head around the fact that the PlayStation is no longer just about games. You could buy one and get masses of use out if but never play a game on it. PS3 is a viable route to HD movies.

PS3 dev kits: I don't know where you go, but I've read plenty to suggest developers are very happy and in fact one (Epic I think) stated that they are in a far better position with PS3 than they were with 360 at the same point before its launch. They felt sure that other developers must be getting the same great results out of PS3 dev kits that they are.

Personally I reckon Sony know more about what they are doing than you do. We can all criticise, it's the easiest thing in the world to do.

Removed personal attack - nyg

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by partridge

JTK - Microsofts own research suggests the majority of Xbox360 owners own an HDtv.

Gamers know more than you think, regardless of the trash gamer forums you visit. I'm a gamer, and I'm an AV enthusiast, for me the two go together more than ever these days. See my opening line, these guys picked up an HDtv specifically to play HD games on.

A major reason for me buying an HDtv was the eventual purchase of either a 360 or a PS3.

HD movies and games are not entirely separate markets; one of the big sways for me toward PS3 is that it is also a hi-def movie player.

I would also expect future tv ads for blu-ray movies to push the fact that they can be played on the PS3.

when I look at what the PS3 can do (what I know of now, let alone what else sony has up its sleeve) it is clearly value for money.

I know plenty about the gamer and the gaming market and I see little problem with the adoption rate of the PS3 for gaming, regardless of the price. Who voted you the average gamer spokesman?

The PS3 is not a games console that happens to play blu-ray. It was designed from the outset to be a high definition entertainment device that plays games and movies and a lot more. Please get your head around the fact that the PlayStation is no longer just about games. You could buy one and get masses of use out if but never play a game on it. PS3 is a viable route to HD movies.

PS3 dev kits: I don't know where you go, but I've read plenty to suggest developers are very happy and in fact one (Epic I think) stated that they are in a far better position with PS3 than they were with 360 at the same point before its launch. They felt sure that other developers must be getting the same great results out of PS3 dev kits that they are.

Personally I reckon Sony know more about what they are doing than you do. We can all criticise, it's the easiest thing in the world to do.
Removed personal attack - nyg

Spot on partridge. As much as some would like to compartmentalize the gaming and HD market, we all know very well that these two markets are bleeding into one another. Case in point, the iPod. Yes, it was used for mostly downloaded digital music, but we see that it is becoming a video playback device as well as a device used for contacts, games, scheduling, etc. Same goes with the PS3. It is a HD entertainment device as partridge has stated.

I'm really growing weary of all the "the sky is falling" type posts from some here over a poor launch from Blu-ray. Yes, some of their movies RELEASED BY THE STUDIOS, are sub par, but give me a break, it's only been a little over a month since launch and some of you are belaboring the significance of this poor launch--dare I say to the point of nauseum. Moreover, belaboring the non-use of the VC-1 codec, with very little mention of the MPEG4/H.264 codec, which I forsee being the codec being implemented moreso on future Blu-ray titles. Some make it appear as if VC-1 is the only codec to save Blu-ray, when this is far from reality--as I think MPEG2 at a higher bit rate on 50GB discs as well as the use of MPEG4/H.264 will do just wonderfully. Yes, we all understand the 50 GB discs are "vapourware" to some, but please, just please, try to exercise an ounce of patience in an early adoption market that will go well into 2007, where the appearance of 50 GB disc in a couple of months or the lack therof for a couple of months won't doom the format into Betamax/UMD oblivion.

We get it, Blu-ray has SOME poor quality releases, but to expect future releases to follow the same route is unrealistic, short-sighted, and IMHO, giving way to impatient fervor.

PS3 will undoubtedly be a success and at a both $499 and $599 price point, will be consumed by the masses, trumping any type of perceived advantage some may think HD DVD has gained. I just find it interesting that HD DVD faired poorly out of the gate too, but 3 months later people have given it time to correct any issues, but the same courtesy is absent in light of Blu-ray. Give it two more months, and I won't be suprised to see those criticizing (borderline bashing) Blu-ray incessantly at the present will be singing its praises, and making statements like, "this is what it should have been from the beginning" etc.

But so goes the debate on format wars, as you have some that are capable of sitting back and realizing that it is early adoption time, with an immature market, and those that can't grasp this concept and commence with the hell-fire (No VC-1!) and damnation (there's no excuse for this crap!) kind of posts. Patience, that's all I have to say. HD DVD is far from capturing the market, what's more likely is that Blu-ray will, come PS3 time albeit with the help of the majority of the CE and IT industry as well...make no mistake, I still think this will hold true. Time will tell this story.

[JTK]

Marzetta, I basically agree with everything you wrote.

Removed personal attacks - nyg