Help w/ HDMI and "legacy" HDTV - Blu-ray Forum

victorvondoom88 · 08-06-2007, 01:00 AM

My brother has a older Mitsubishi 65" Diamond series TV. It doesn't do 720p/1080p. It does however do 1080i which is how its hooked up now via A/V multi out with component cables.
He would like to upgrade his receiver to the new Denon AVR-3808CI http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3510.asp

The question is can he use the HDMI as a audio only cable? It looks that way since the HDMI has seperate settings under audio and display settings.

He wants to keep using the AV multi out via component cables set to 1080i for the picture and run the HDMI cable for audio only to get the DTS-HD MA and DD True-HD.

If there is any way someone on hear could verify if this would work it would be greatly appreciated.

Muad'Dib · 08-06-2007, 01:44 AM

Herm... good question. I have not had a chance to play with this receiver yet. But I can suggest a simple solution; and that is to send the video directly to the TV directly and the audio via HDMI from your Bluray player to the Denon. The only trouble with that solution is that the Denon is $1600 and should be able to do what you want.
Also what type of Bluray player are you running? Some players can only output one video signal at a time.

Can the Denon display the component input and get is sound from the HDMI?; is the you were asking. I looked over the manual and my answer is I don't know. Sorry, not very much help.
Why not just go straight HDMI all the way? If it is a question of not having a HDMI on the TV, Is there a DVI input; you can get an DVI adapter for an HDMI cable.

WriteSimply · 08-06-2007, 01:45 AM

You mean, Component for HDTV and HDMI for 5.1 lossless audio?

Yes.

fuad

crackinhedz · 08-06-2007, 02:24 AM

First off, what exactly is your brother trying to hook up to the reciever?? as the second poster said, theres no player (to my knowldge) that can output video via component and sound via HDMI at the same time.

As for the reciever, you cannot convert an HDMI signal into analog...so no, it will not work. (pg 8 owners manual)...meaning, if you input HDMI you cannot keep the audio then output an analog video (component cable)....just cant do it.

Now, a simple solution to keep component video and high definition audio, is to run 5.1 or 7.1 anaolg cables to the anlog audio inputs of the reciever.

so your brother can buy the reciever and run it this way, until he upgrades the tv to an HDMI set...

good luck to you guys

NoTx · 08-06-2007, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

First off, what exactly is your brother trying to hook up to the reciever?? as the second poster said, theres no player (to my knowldge) that can output video via component and sound via HDMI at the same time.

As for the reciever, you cannot convert an HDMI signal into analog...so no, it will not work. (pg 8 owners manual)...meaning, if you input HDMI you cannot keep the audio then output an analog video (component cable)....just cant do it.

Now, a simple solution to keep component video and high definition audio, is to run 5.1 or 7.1 anaolg cables to the anlog audio inputs of the reciever.

so your brother can buy the reciever and run it this way, until he upgrades the tv to an HDMI set...

good luck to you guys

Er, actually several recievers can map individually for audio and video. And some do this on HDMI as well. I know some Dennon recievers can... but I really don't know that model. You really just need to see if each is mapable.

crackinhedz · 08-06-2007, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoTx

Er, actually several recievers can map individually for audio and video. And some do this on HDMI as well. I know some Dennon recievers can... but I really don't know that model. You really just need to see if each is mapable.

....I would love for you to link to ONE (if there are several, should be easy)?!!

crackinhedz · 08-06-2007, 05:14 AM

...Lets take a look at the Denon AVR-5805CI ($7,200)...Owners Manual pg.28

"It is not possible to down-convert from HDMI and DVI-D input signals to the component, S-video or composite video monitor output terminals."

or how about Denons new HDMI V1.3 AVR-4308CI ($2,500) Owners Manual pg.8

"HDMI signals cannot be converted into analog signals"

....erm...nope they dont do it.

please show me one that can??

WickyWoo · 08-06-2007, 05:30 AM

as long as your player will output both, hypothetically it'll work. You might need to configure a delay though

crackinhedz · 08-06-2007, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

as long as your player will output both, hypothetically it'll work. You might need to configure a delay though

thats the only way I can see it possible...

find a player that can output HDMI and Component video/audio at the same time...

I found a site talking about modifying TIVO HD...

Instructions to Enable component and HDMI at the same time

....then you can run the component cable to the TV directly and the HDMI cable to the reciever...but...finding a Bluray player to do this? with HDCP I think no player will allow.

(but I wont say its not possible, just recievers wont split an HDMI signal, so finding a player is only option...slim chance though.)

takezo · 08-06-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorvondoom88

My brother has a older Mitsubishi 65" Diamond series TV. It doesn't do 720p/1080p. It does however do 1080i which is how its hooked up now via A/V multi out with component cables.
He would like to upgrade his receiver to the new Denon AVR-3808CI http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3510.asp

The question is can he use the HDMI as a audio only cable? It looks that way since the HDMI has seperate settings under audio and display settings.

He wants to keep using the AV multi out via component cables set to 1080i for the picture and run the HDMI cable for audio only to get the DTS-HD MA and DD True-HD.

If there is any way someone on hear could verify if this would work it would be greatly appreciated.

Yes you can, I have an old LCD TV that does not have HDMI, so I use HDMI to DVI adapter. Obvioulsy I can't get audio from HDMI, thus I set my PS3 to HDMI for video, and optical for audio. Your bro's setup is basicaly opsoite from mine. Basicaly you already have video setup to component, so all that's left is to set audio out to HDMI. Usually you would run an HDMI cable from your receiver to TV to pass through the video signal to TV, but since his TV don't got no HDMI video input, there is only need to plug HDMI to reciever, and leave video as is, the in Blu-ray player menu select HDMI for audio output. I know 100% that in PS3 this is posible, thus I expect a standalone player to be the same.

Fenix88 · 08-06-2007, 05:19 PM

I'm victorvondooms brother. I have the PS 3 as my blu ray player which I run the component cable out of the ps3 to my DVDO iscan HD+. It does all of my video(dvd ,sat, vhs, laser disc, xbox 360, ps3) and outputs it to my Mits WS 65-905. Which since it is older only has RGB or RGBHV as the hd connector. The iscan does accept hdmi to dvi connection but since I'm using the analog side of the iscan to my tv it will not pass the HDCP. So I'm to use the component cables of the ps3 which is fine since max resolution is 1080i for my tv. I'm worried if I upgrade my Denon AVR-3805 to the new 3808CI will the HDCP thing come into play even though I'm only using the audio side of the HDMI? And yes it would be simple to upgrade the Mits it still has plenty of life since it only gets less than 10 hours a week on it. I hope this helps. Again I'm only interested in the loseless audio via the HDMI of the ps3.

crackinhedz · 08-07-2007, 12:19 AM

the problem is the PS3 will not send out video over component while at the same time audio via HDMI. It just doesnt work that way, and quite frankly, I dont know of ANY player that can without some kind of modification...

The PS3 will not allow you to use HDMI solely for audio...has to be video and audio output, or video only.

Takezo, I think you missunderstand his question.

You can use HDMI->DVI for video, and use any audio you want...but you cannot use component (analog) for video and keep HDMI (digital) audio. Doesnt work that way.

crackinhedz · 08-07-2007, 12:38 AM

...ok, and before I say 100% that it cannot, try something...(I dont have the component cables to try)...

Can someone with an HDMI reciever and PS3 component cables give this a try to confirm?

Connect the PS3 directly to the TV with component cables, and run the HDMI to the reciever...and set the ps3 to output Compnent video and HDMI for audio...

..lets see if this works?

victorvondoom88 · 08-07-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Can someone with an HDMI reciever and PS3 component cables give this a try to confirm? Connect the PS3 directly to the TV with component cables, and run the HDMI to the reciever...and set the ps3 to output Compnent video and HDMI for audio...

Yes, please if there is someone who could test this out it would be great.

Sorry for not mentioning its a ps3. The reason it seems like it might work is it has settings for HDMI under audio and video. I use mine for video but not audio it seems like it would work if you selected the HDMI as the audio out and had the AV multi out set for component on the video out.

ground chuck · 08-07-2007, 12:03 PM

i have hdmi for video and digital optical for audio. there's no way you're going to be able to run composite for video and hdmi for audio.

MouseRider · 08-07-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ground chuck

i have hdmi for video and digital optical for audio. there's no way you're going to be able to run composite for video and hdmi for audio.

Have you tried it and know this for a fact?

The PS3 does allow you to set video out and audio outs separately.

I use component out right now and "Sound" does allow me to select HDMI as an output and video continues to work out of component and the PS3 does not complain when I save the settings. I don't have my HDMI pre/pro connected yet so I can't tell you if there is sound but I can't see why the PS3 would accept a setting if it wasn't going to put out the sound.

I will know end of the week when my rack-ears come for my pre/pro and I can test it for myself. I will post results.

victorvondoom88 · 08-07-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MouseRider

Have you tried it and know this for a fact?

The PS3 does allow you to set video out and audio outs separately.

I use component out right now and "Sound" does allow me to select HDMI as an output and video continues to work out of component and the PS3 does not complain when I save the settings. I don't have my HDMI pre/pro connected yet so I can't tell you if there is sound but I can't see why the PS3 would accept a setting if it wasn't going to put out the sound.

I will know end of the week when my rack-ears come for my pre/pro and I can test it for myself. I will post results.

Thanks MouseRider! That is exactly how he plans on doing it.

crackinhedz · 08-08-2007, 12:45 AM

well, ive been trying to get people on the playstation forums to test it out...but most were retards...

the best and closest answer I got was...

"I'm not sure if that will work. Before I got my HDTV, I tried hooking my PS3 up with an S-Video cable to the TV, and HDMI to the receiver I have, but there was no sound..... I think it has something to do with the HDCP of the HDMI (being put into the receiver, but not being sent to anything else)"

so I have yet to get a definite answer with Component for video and HDMI for audio...

crackinhedz · 08-08-2007, 01:05 AM

ok, I finally got an answer that says yes it works...

"I have my PS3 setup the exact way you are asking about. IT DOES WORK. 1.I have component cables running from my PS3 to my projector directly, but I can also run them into my receiver for convinience. 2.I have an HDMI cable running from the PS3 to my receiver to deliver audio only. The only problems that I could see arising is if you have a receiver that can repeat an HDMI Audio/Video but not decode it. My Yamaha receiver does decode audio via HDMI and there are very few of those around at the moment. Let me know if you want any more details..."

so I guess it does work! cool if true.

victorvondoom88 · 08-08-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

ok, I finally got an answer that says yes it works...

"I have my PS3 setup the exact way you are asking about. IT DOES WORK. 1.I have component cables running from my PS3 to my projector directly, but I can also run them into my receiver for convinience. 2.I have an HDMI cable running from the PS3 to my receiver to deliver audio only. The only problems that I could see arising is if you have a receiver that can repeat an HDMI Audio/Video but not decode it. My Yamaha receiver does decode audio via HDMI and there are very few of those around at the moment. Let me know if you want any more details..."

so I guess it does work! cool if true.

Thanks! I thought it would when I saw the ps3 had options under both video and audio for the HDMI.
Hopefully MouseRider can confirm this as well.

08-06-2007, 01:00 AM	#1
victorvondoom88 Expert Member Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Location:middle of nowere, IL. Home Theater Gallery:26 4K collection:39 Blu-ray collection:656	Help w/ HDMI and "legacy" HDTV My brother has a older Mitsubishi 65" Diamond series TV. It doesn't do 720p/1080p. It does however do 1080i which is how its hooked up now via A/V multi out with component cables. He would like to upgrade his receiver to the new Denon AVR-3808CI http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3510.asp The question is can he use the HDMI as a audio only cable? It looks that way since the HDMI has seperate settings under audio and display settings. He wants to keep using the AV multi out via component cables set to 1080i for the picture and run the HDMI cable for audio only to get the DTS-HD MA and DD True-HD. If there is any way someone on hear could verify if this would work it would be greatly appreciated.

08-06-2007, 01:44 AM	#2
Muad'Dib Member Member since:Jun 2007	herm... Herm... good question. I have not had a chance to play with this receiver yet. But I can suggest a simple solution; and that is to send the video directly to the TV directly and the audio via HDMI from your Bluray player to the Denon. The only trouble with that solution is that the Denon is $1600 and should be able to do what you want. Also what type of Bluray player are you running? Some players can only output one video signal at a time. Can the Denon display the component input and get is sound from the HDMI?; is the you were asking. I looked over the manual and my answer is I don't know. Sorry, not very much help. Why not just go straight HDMI all the way? If it is a question of not having a HDMI on the TV, Is there a DVI input; you can get an DVI adapter for an HDMI cable.

08-06-2007, 05:19 PM	#11
Fenix88 Member Member since:Jan 2007 Location:IL Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:146 Blu-ray collection:513	I'm victorvondooms brother. I have the PS 3 as my blu ray player which I run the component cable out of the ps3 to my DVDO iscan HD+. It does all of my video(dvd ,sat, vhs, laser disc, xbox 360, ps3) and outputs it to my Mits WS 65-905. Which since it is older only has RGB or RGBHV as the hd connector. The iscan does accept hdmi to dvi connection but since I'm using the analog side of the iscan to my tv it will not pass the HDCP. So I'm to use the component cables of the ps3 which is fine since max resolution is 1080i for my tv. I'm worried if I upgrade my Denon AVR-3805 to the new 3808CI will the HDCP thing come into play even though I'm only using the audio side of the HDMI? And yes it would be simple to upgrade the Mits it still has plenty of life since it only gets less than 10 hours a week on it. I hope this helps. Again I'm only interested in the loseless audio via the HDMI of the ps3. Last edited by Fenix88; 08-06-2007 at 05:24 PM.

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08-06-2007, 01:45 AM	#3
WriteSimply Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia	You mean, Component for HDTV and HDMI for 5.1 lossless audio? Yes. fuad

08-06-2007, 02:24 AM	#4
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	First off, what exactly is your brother trying to hook up to the reciever?? as the second poster said, theres no player (to my knowldge) that can output video via component and sound via HDMI at the same time. As for the reciever, you cannot convert an HDMI signal into analog...so no, it will not work. (pg 8 owners manual)...meaning, if you input HDMI you cannot keep the audio then output an analog video (component cable)....just cant do it. Now, a simple solution to keep component video and high definition audio, is to run 5.1 or 7.1 anaolg cables to the anlog audio inputs of the reciever. so your brother can buy the reciever and run it this way, until he upgrades the tv to an HDMI set... good luck to you guys

08-06-2007, 05:14 AM	#7
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	...Lets take a look at the Denon AVR-5805CI ($7,200)...Owners Manual pg.28 "It is not possible to down-convert from HDMI and DVI-D input signals to the component, S-video or composite video monitor output terminals." or how about Denons new HDMI V1.3 AVR-4308CI ($2,500) Owners Manual pg.8 "HDMI signals cannot be converted into analog signals" ....erm...nope they dont do it. please show me one that can??

08-06-2007, 05:30 AM	#8
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	as long as your player will output both, hypothetically it'll work. You might need to configure a delay though

08-07-2007, 12:19 AM	#12
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	the problem is the PS3 will not send out video over component while at the same time audio via HDMI. It just doesnt work that way, and quite frankly, I dont know of ANY player that can without some kind of modification... The PS3 will not allow you to use HDMI solely for audio...has to be video and audio output, or video only. Takezo, I think you missunderstand his question. You can use HDMI->DVI for video, and use any audio you want...but you cannot use component (analog) for video and keep HDMI (digital) audio. Doesnt work that way.

08-07-2007, 12:38 AM	#13
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	...ok, and before I say 100% that it cannot, try something...(I dont have the component cables to try)... Can someone with an HDMI reciever and PS3 component cables give this a try to confirm? Connect the PS3 directly to the TV with component cables, and run the HDMI to the reciever...and set the ps3 to output Compnent video and HDMI for audio... ..lets see if this works?

08-07-2007, 12:03 PM	#15
ground chuck Power Member Member since:May 2007 Location:Charm City Blu-ray collection:75 Blu-ray reviews:48 Trading Score:18	i have hdmi for video and digital optical for audio. there's no way you're going to be able to run composite for video and hdmi for audio.

08-08-2007, 12:45 AM	#18
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	well, ive been trying to get people on the playstation forums to test it out...but most were retards... the best and closest answer I got was... "I'm not sure if that will work. Before I got my HDTV, I tried hooking my PS3 up with an S-Video cable to the TV, and HDMI to the receiver I have, but there was no sound..... I think it has something to do with the HDCP of the HDMI (being put into the receiver, but not being sent to anything else)" so I have yet to get a definite answer with Component for video and HDMI for audio...

08-08-2007, 01:05 AM	#19
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	ok, I finally got an answer that says yes it works... "I have my PS3 setup the exact way you are asking about. IT DOES WORK. 1.I have component cables running from my PS3 to my projector directly, but I can also run them into my receiver for convinience. 2.I have an HDMI cable running from the PS3 to my receiver to deliver audio only. The only problems that I could see arising is if you have a receiver that can repeat an HDMI Audio/Video but not decode it. My Yamaha receiver does decode audio via HDMI and there are very few of those around at the moment. Let me know if you want any more details..." so I guess it does work! cool if true.

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