What's up with the creation of Azog as the main villain in The Hobbit?

[toddly6666]

I know Azog was mentioned briefly in the book but I'm just curious why he seems so mysterious and absent in all the stuff that's being sold (picture books, toys, games) to promote the movie.

Does any Hobbit movie expert know how this character developed and why he seems so mysterious? Was he added later in post-production?

Azog does not show up in any of the current Hobbit movie picture books when they show trolls, goblins, goblin king, and generic orcs. Sometimes pictures of his father show up, but not Azog.

It's as if they did some test screenings and audiences felt like the movie didn't have a strong central villain, so they added him late in the game but it was too late to add Azog into all the toys/books/games, etc.

I love movie villain Azog by the way, but I just thought it was interesting that he's absent in all the Hobbit promotional stuff.

[Nerdkiller likes BD]

Yeah, it seems as though he was a late addition during the movie's development. Which would explain why he's CG rather than an actor with prosthetics and forced perspective for size.

[LordCrumb]

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

Yeah, it seems as though he was a late addition during the movie's development. Which would explain why he's CG rather than an actor with prosthetics and forced perspective for size.

He was CGI? damn, Weta is the master of making CGI characters look so real... I thought it was someone in prosthetics.

[Foggy]

I can see the reason why he was left out of promotional material was due to the fact he's a scary looking dude and The Hobbit is essentially a kids film.

As for why he's left out of picture books and merchandising and him being CGI-ed I'm unsure. Unless he was thrown in very early after the announcement of the third film, which means PJ really rushed and pulled his A-game to get some of the biggest scenes together to work him in. But I haven't read the book, so I'm unsure if he really features predominantly in the story or not, I just assumed he did while watching the film.

[Al_The_Strange]

I'm wondering if they're pushing Azog on purpose to persist through all three movies. If they really do desolate Smaug in the next film, what's left but the five-way battle and the journey home? They may need to pull out another big fight to make the third film carry more weight (as if the battle won't be enough). Since the decision to split the film into three parts rather than two was fairly recent, it would stand to reason that they could have rushed Azog in at the last minute to fill in some space across all the films.

That's just my guess for now; they could switch things up and kill off Azog by the next film, who knows?

[Blu Ian]

dat spoiler in the thread title

[Nerdkiller likes BD]

Originally Posted by Blu Ian

dat spoiler in the thread title

Don't you have a certain other, video game focused forum to post on. Besides, it's hardly that big of a spoiler.

[JamesKurtovich]

I loved The Hobbit, but he was the weakest link. I wouldn't mind them revisiting the film and re-doing his CGI work or possibly replacing him with a real person.

[Show spoiler]Or cutting out his scenes from the time we see him at Moria to the time he attacks the dwarves in the Misty Mountains.

He looks horrible compared to this guy.



Or these guys.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Foggy

I can see the reason why he was left out of promotional material was due to the fact he's a scary looking dude and The Hobbit is essentially a kids film.

That, and his lack of Tolkien pedigree. (They don't want to scare core fans off by bringing too many off-book characters, and suggesting they wandered off the path, with all the padding concerns and the first film to sell.)

As for why he's left out of picture books and merchandising and him being CGI-ed I'm unsure. Unless he was thrown in very early after the announcement of the third film, which means PJ really rushed and pulled his A-game to get some of the biggest scenes together to work him in. But I haven't read the book, so I'm unsure if he really features predominantly in the story or not, I just assumed he did while watching the film.

I've read the book and don't remember whether he was in it, but a last-minute script-doctor insertion would explain why Azog largely comes off like a generic Romulan/Klingon story-arc villain from Star Trek: Enterprise .
("At last we shall destroy the Federation scum!...What, no, it's not just because they kicked me off the high council, that has nothing to do with it!")

[mastadge]

When they expanded the story from two films to three, they needed more material, and when they made the decision to turn Thorin into a "return of the king" type of character rather than just a "I want my gold back" sort of dwarf they needed to give him an archnemesis, too. And the result is unfortunate, cliché-spouting Azog, the most one-dimensional villain in years. Oh well. Maybe we'll get even more filler flashbacks in the next film, this time telling the story from his perspective, and we'll learn he's not such a bad guy after all.

[Blu Ian]

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

Don't you have a certain other, video game focused forum to post on. Besides, it's hardly that big of a spoiler.

I don't know what you're talking about.

[carpenyx]

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

Yeah, it seems as though he was a late addition during the movie's development. Which would explain why he's CG rather than an actor with prosthetics and forced perspective for size.

Uh, Azog was played by an actor with prosthetics; Manu Bennett. Some of it was CGI but not completely.

[Nerdkiller likes BD]

Originally Posted by carpenyx

Uh, Azog was played by an actor with prosthetics; Manu Bennett. Some of it was CGI but not completely.

Huh. Didn't look that way when I was in the cinema.

[Clippins]

Originally Posted by carpenyx

Uh, Azog was played by an actor with prosthetics; Manu Bennett. Some of it was CGI but not completely.

I think he just mo-capped and provided the voice for Azog. I don't think there were any scenes where Azog didn't look completely like a video game character.

[carpenyx]

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

Huh. Didn't look that way when I was in the cinema.

Thought I read an article on the use of both but can't find now (was gonna link it). I probably mixed up my movies.

Originally Posted by Clippins

I think he just mo-capped and provided the voice for Azog. I don't think there were any scenes where Azog didn't look completely like a video game character.

Gotcha. I just assumed it was both.

(edited to add a reply)

[Metric]

Originally Posted by Clippins

I think he just mo-capped and provided the voice for Azog. I don't think there were any scenes where Azog didn't look completely like a video game character.

yeah, he looked like kratos, defo not a human in makeup.

[Snicket]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

I know Azog was mentioned briefly in the book but I'm just curious why he seems so mysterious and absent in all the stuff that's being sold (picture books, toys, games) to promote the movie.

Does any Hobbit movie expert know how this character developed and why he seems so mysterious? Was he added later in post-production?

Azog does not show up in any of the current Hobbit movie picture books when they show trolls, goblins, goblin king, and generic orcs. Sometimes pictures of his father show up, but not Azog.

It's as if they did some test screenings and audiences felt like the movie didn't have a strong central villain, so they added him late in the game but it was too late to add Azog into all the toys/books/games, etc.

I love movie villain Azog by the way, but I just thought it was interesting that he's absent in all the Hobbit promotional stuff.

Slight Spoilers:

So in the book Azog dies in the battle of Moria and his son, Blog, plays the role that Azog now plays in the films. Interesting to note, Blog is in fact a character in the films, you can see him briefly in the Moria battle scenes. He is a real actor in costume and makeup, not CGI.

Now this is what I think happened (This is speculation on my part obviously) I think Blog was meant to be the Orc antagonist in the Hobbit films, and when the films were only 2 films we saw him make an appearance near the end of the first film.

BUT, when the film was cut into 3 Blog was cut from the first film and that left an opening for an antagonist to fill the gap, so PJ and company added in Azog, that is why the character is all CGI. In fact, Blog DOES show up in the promotional material. So he was in the film before it was split.

So I think

[Show spoiler]sometime in film 2 Azog will be killed off and Blog will take back his place in the battle of five armies.

Originally Posted by LordCrumb

He was CGI? damn, Weta is the master of making CGI characters look so real... I thought it was someone in prosthetics.

Really? Because everyone I went with thought he looked outright terrible. I thought it looked like garbage personally.

[Rizor]

I didn't think the Azog's CGI was terrrible, but Jackson's over-reliance with CGI has made all of his films look and feel artificial. I don't bother looking at the visual effects with a too discerning eye in case the whole illusion of the movie shatters. His design is rather uninventive. Giant Albino Orc with Giant Albino Warg pet.

I personally haven't cared for the Boss Orcs/Uruk-Hai in the LOTR films. Lurtz, Elephant Man dude, and Cockney-dude-that-wanted-to-eat-Merry-&-Pippin all became grating and overstayed their welcomes. Thankfully, PJ had the sense not to use these guys too heavily.

Azog is used as something of a crutch in The Hobbit Pt 1, but it makes some sense and adds purpose to the dogged pursuit of Thorin and his company. It links actions that seemed more episodic in the books. Unfortunately, Azog really needed to die at the film's end. His survival just makes the damn thing feel all the more inconclusive.

[Grand Bob]

In the book and Tolkien's writings, Azog is leader of the Orcs of Moria and starts the war between the Dwarves and Orcs by cutting off the head of Thror, Thorin's grandfather. The Dwarf-king Dain killed Azog in the final battle of that war, the Battle of Azanulbizar, which was

[Show spoiler] the battle shown in the movie. Dain will figure into the third movie when he comes to the aid of Thorin and the dwarves in the Lonely Mountain. He will become king of the dwarves of that region after Thorin dies.

It would appear that Azog's son Bolg does not play a role in Jackson's version of the movie. I think the reason that Jackson amplifies Azog's role is to incorporate an additional action/revenge thread to intensify the story - with the inevitable

[Show spoiler] show-down at the end between Thorin and Azog.

[LordCrumb]

Originally Posted by Snicket

Slight Spoilers:

So in the book Azog dies in the battle of Moria and his son, Blog, plays the role that Azog now plays in the films. Interesting to note, Blog is in fact a character in the films, you can see him briefly in the Moria battle scenes. He is a real actor in costume and makeup, not CGI.

Now this is what I think happened (This is speculation on my part obviously) I think Blog was meant to be the Orc antagonist in the Hobbit films, and when the films were only 2 films we saw him make an appearance near the end of the first film.

BUT, when the film was cut into 3 Blog was cut from the first film and that left an opening for an antagonist to fill the gap, so PJ and company added in Azog, that is why the character is all CGI. In fact, Blog DOES show up in the promotional material. So he was in the film before it was split.

So I think

[Show spoiler]sometime in film 2 Azog will be killed off and Blog will take back his place in the battle of five armies.

Really? Because everyone I went with thought he looked outright terrible. I thought it looked like garbage personally.

Really. He looked fantastic.. maybe you had dirt on your 3D glasses