Onkyo 808 or 3008? Please help!

[mkohman]

Hey Guys,

I need a new amp to power B&W CM9's and CMC2 Centre .. I am currently running them with an Onkyo 608 which is not up to scratch as everyone tells me..


I had my heart set out on the Onkyo 3008 but its a lot more than the 808 and some people were saying the 808 will do a good job? My requirements are:

7.2 channel
2 x HDMI outputs (TV and Projector)
Enough watts per channel to run the CM's
Auddysey

I know both the 808 and the 3008 have all of above but the Onkyo 3008 has the XT32 Audyssey which I was really really keen on.. From experience is this a necessaity and worth the extra cost over the 808? I am not too bothere with the 9.2 channels , 7.2 is enough for me..

Please can you guys let me know which will be the best buy for my speakers.. ?

I can get the Onkyo 808 for £650.00 and the Onkyo 3008 is not £1,300.00 so double the price of the 808

Look forward in hearing from you guys.. thanks..

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by mkohman

Hey Guys,

I need a new amp to power B&W CM9's and CMC2 Centre .. I am currently running them with an Onkyo 608 which is not up to scratch as everyone tells me..

I had my heart set out on the Onkyo 3008 but its a lot more than the 808 and some people were saying the 808 will do a good job? My requirements are:

7.2 channel
2 x HDMI outputs (TV and Projector)
Enough watts per channel to run the CM's
Auddysey

I know both the 808 and the 3008 have all of above but the Onkyo 3008 has the XT32 Audyssey which I was really really keen on.. From experience is this a necessaity and worth the extra cost over the 808? I am not too bothere with the 9.2 channels , 7.2 is enough for me..

Please can you guys let me know which will be the best buy for my speakers.. ?

I can get the Onkyo 808 for £650.00 and the Onkyo 3008 is not £1,300.00 so double the price of the 808

Look forward in hearing from you guys.. thanks..

i notice your quote, so my question is to you, is it up to scratch to you or are you giving in to pressure from "everyone"? i ask because you never said it was not up to scratch to you? i'm just curious is all. do you think your not getting the full potential out of your speakers at the volume you listen to them at and if so do you think it's because of a lack of power and that this will be resolved by a new power source?

again, just curious.

[mkohman]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

i notice your quote, so my question is to you, is it up to scratch to you or are you giving in to pressure from "everyone"? i ask because you never said it was not up to scratch to you? i'm just curious is all. do you think your not getting the full potential out of your speakers at the volume you listen to them at and if so do you think it's because of a lack of power and that this will be resolved by a new power source?

again, just curious.

to be honest with you I like the way it sounds.. however everyone on forums and in the shops says the 608 will not get the best out of the CM range.. its not powerfull enough apparently.. The Onkyo 608 is my first ever Amp I have had it for almost 2 yrs and was running the B&W MT-30 kit with it.. which has 5 x M1's and the PV1 sub .. I since then upgraded my centre speaker to the CM Centre and now because I could sell the CM for a good price and get an ex demo CMC2 centre I have upgraded to a CMC2 centre and very soon hope to get the CM9's for left and right channel.. I will be using my M1 sats for the rear and I sold my PV1 sub and replaced that for the Monolith DF+ Gloss Black subwoofer which I am still waiting delivery for..

This is the reason why I am looking for a new amp because of the upgrade.. they say the 608 is not upto scratch..!

[solarrdadd]

i'd tell you that if you like the way it sounds now that's perfect and there's nothing wrong with liking it the way you have it, despite the fact that it appears to be contrary to popular belief.

i would tell you that if you could go somewhere and audition the speakers you have with a larger power source, taking materials you have listened to already and play them there. that is (beyond what everyone is telling you) probably one of the better ways to determine what is what with and for your speakers.

more times than not more power is better at louder volumes as it gives more headroom and helps to prevent clipping during high dynamic segments in music. it also affords one the ability to drive the speakers down lower and not have to worry about damage to them due to clipping.

so again, if your happy with what you have then keep it. if you can find what you have with an amp/source that is greater than yours and you can audition it there, great, give that a try. if you have some money that's disposable and it won't bother you then go ahead and buy the newer receiver.

one last thing what is the ratio of movies to music for you and your gear?

Mind you these are just my opinions.

either way, please keep us posted.

[mkohman]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

i'd tell you that if you like the way it sounds now that's perfect and there's nothing wrong with liking it the way you have it, despite the fact that it appears to be contrary to popular belief.

i would tell you that if you could go somewhere and audition the speakers you have with a larger power source, taking materials you have listened to already and play them there. that is (beyond what everyone is telling you) probably one of the better ways to determine what is what with and for your speakers.

more times than not more power is better at louder volumes as it gives more headroom and helps to prevent clipping during high dynamic segments in music. it also affords one the ability to drive the speakers down lower and not have to worry about damage to them due to clipping.

so again, if your happy with what you have then keep it. if you can find what you have with an amp/source that is greater than yours and you can audition it there, great, give that a try. if you have some money that's disposable and it won't bother you then go ahead and buy the newer receiver.

one last thing what is the ratio of movies to music for you and your gear?

Mind you these are just my opinions.

either way, please keep us posted.

80% MOVIES, 20% MUSIC.. I listen to movies at -30db to -20db so would you class that as very loud and will I danger clipping and damaging the speakers as this is definitely something I DON'T want to risk

[mkohman]

@solarrdadd: please can you answer my last message.. really appreciate it.. thank you

[spaceape]

Im not sure there will be much difference between the old and the new reciever you are looking at getting.

You might as well save up for a separate amp. Emotiva is cheap but will cost some too ship over here including tax and such. But there's a lot of alternatives in that department.

Circa 200W at 8 Ohm all channels running is great for the cm series. Most av recievers only run around 100W for two ch. all the other channels share that power.

I don't think you will notice clipping much if you run at max 75db which is more than enough for your room i think. I have the onkyo 607 and im not noticing any sound defects.

[mkohman]

Originally Posted by spaceape

Im not sure there will be much difference between the old and the new reciever you are looking at getting.

You might as well save up for a separate amp. Emotiva is cheap but will cost some too ship over here including tax and such. But there's a lot of alternatives in that department.

Circa 200W at 8 Ohm all channels running is great for the cm series. Most av recievers only run around 100W for two ch. all the other channels share that power.

I don't think you will notice clipping much if you run at max 75db which is more than enough for your room i think. I have the onkyo 607 and im not noticing any sound defects.

Hello Mate,

Thanks for the reply.. Are you running all your speakers only from the Onkyo 607 ? If so have you not heard any clipping or any distortion? I am just worried that the 608 may not be upto scratch and want to avoid causing any possible damage to the speakers.. What levels do you watch your movies at? I watch them at -20 db which is around 65db in normal mode.. Thanks

[spaceape]

Originally Posted by mkohman

Hello Mate,

Thanks for the reply.. Are you running all your speakers only from the Onkyo 607 ? If so have you not heard any clipping or any distortion? I am just worried that the 608 may not be upto scratch and want to avoid causing any possible damage to the speakers.. What levels do you watch your movies at? I watch them at -20 db which is around 65db in normal mode.. Thanks

Yes the onkyo for my entire cm set.

Your 608 will do fine and i run my 607 with peace of mind. I've not once heard anything resembling clipping maybe a tiny bit of distortion were evident at the very high volume peaks above 75db (<-typically my listening level maybe a tad lower) but none that my ear could catch (could also be bad acoustics in my room). Although i wouldn't mind getting a powerful separate amp just because it would make the speakers sound their absolute best.

Your 608 will work even better than mine im sure. I would not be concerned of damage too your speakers. Save your money and use it for the speakers. Next too a screen they will be your most important purchase you ever do in a HT environment.

Although im still a novice with all this home theater stuff so if someone believes me wrong please correct me!

[mkohman]

Just bought the Onkyo 3008 for £1,100.00 Brand New in Box with 2 yrs warranty.. probably one of the last ones in the UK . I managed to get it for a very good price I think Will get it delivered tomorrow!

[spaceape]

Originally Posted by mkohman

Just bought the Onkyo 3008 for £1,100.00 Brand New in Box with 2 yrs warranty.. probably one of the last ones in the UK . I managed to get it for a very good price I think Will get it delivered tomorrow!

Well it's:

250 W/Ch at 6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 1 Channel Driven, JEITA vs. 175 W/Ch at 6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 1 Channel Driven, JEITA..So at least there is an improvement in watts.

Audyssey is also much better on the new one.

Congratulations mate.

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by spaceape

Well it's:

250 W/Ch at 6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 1 Channel Driven, JEITA vs. 175 W/Ch at 6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 1 Channel Driven, JEITA..So at least there is an improvement in watts.

Audyssey is also much better on the new one.

Congratulations mate.

congrats on your new purchase MKohman. keep in mind the proof will be in the using and the results of said using. also, nobody with a receiver drives only one channel so there goes those numbers. it will be an improvement over what you currently have.

please keep us posted and give us your review on your new toy. I'm very happy for you and i do hope you get the results you are hoping for.

[mkohman]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

congrats on your new purchase MKohman. keep in mind the proof will be in the using and the results of said using. also, nobody with a receiver drives only one channel so there goes those numbers. it will be an improvement over what you currently have.

please keep us posted and give us your review on your new toy. I'm very happy for you and i do hope you get the results you are hoping for.

Thank you very much .. really appreciate it I think I am wil be having 140w p/channel at 8 ohms when running 5.1 setup which is plenty of power.. I really hope this doesn't damage the rear M1's as they are rated at 100 watts per channel.. I wont be playing any louder than -20 anyway so I hope it will be ok.. any suggestions?
Thanks

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by mkohman

Thank you very much .. really appreciate it I think I am wil be having 140w p/channel at 8 ohms when running 5.1 setup which is plenty of power.. I really hope this doesn't damage the rear M1's as they are rated at 100 watts per channel.. I wont be playing any louder than -20 anyway so I hope it will be ok.. any suggestions?
Thanks

power is pulled, not pushed (other than surges or swells in voltage) your speakers could be connected to a 10kw amp and they won't get more power than they are asking for; the 10kw amp would simply have the ability to provide 10kw of power should the load demand it. your level and master volume will dictate along with dynamic peaks of the music your playing how much power is being consumed/required by the load. little volume, little power, loud volume, big dynamics lots of power.

[mkohman]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

power is pulled, not pushed (other than surges or swells in voltage) your speakers could be connected to a 10kw amp and they won't get more power than they are asking for; the 10kw amp would simply have the ability to provide 10kw of power should the load demand it. your level and master volume will dictate along with dynamic peaks of the music your playing how much power is being consumed/required by the load. little volume, little power, loud volume, big dynamics lots of power.

I appreciate your help.. Listening at -20 will you consider tht as very loud? Or is it normal? Will it cause damage to the M1's? I may be panicing for no reason Thanks

[mkohman]

Just got my new Onkyo 3008 today delivered.. This thing is a real beast Just a quick one. Is anyone else experiencing the unit getting very hot.. I ran it for approx 1-2 hrs and when placed my hand on the top is was baking hot .. very hot. should I be worried or is this normal? My Onkyo 608 never got hot like this beofre.. Also this may sound redicilous I can not really hear much of a difference between the 608 and the 3008.. Is that normal lol

[mkohman]

@solardad: please tell me if you think I am crazy lol .. I have decided to send the Onkyo 3008 back for a refund as I couldn't notice any difference when comparing it to the Onkyo 608? I did the Multi XT32 but it just sounded just like the 608 did which is amazing after the Audyssey 2EQ calibration. I like the look of the Onkyo 3008 and the fact that it has sub EQ but I really cannot justify selling my 608 for peanuts having spent £1,100.00 on the 3008.. so I decided to stick with my 608 as it still has 3.5 yrs warranty left on it.. I have the M1's as surrounds and the CMC2 as a centre .. I think this amp is more than capable of dealing with this setup ..

Please let me know what you think .. do you think I should stick with the 3008? maybe I have just not compared them enough or in reality there is not much of a difference to what I hear?

Thanks bro appreciate your advice..

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by mkohman

@solardad: please tell me if you think I am crazy lol .. I have decided to send the Onkyo 3008 back for a refund as I couldn't notice any difference when comparing it to the Onkyo 608? I did the Multi XT32 but it just sounded just like the 608 did which is amazing after the Audyssey 2EQ calibration. I like the look of the Onkyo 3008 and the fact that it has sub EQ but I really cannot justify selling my 608 for peanuts having spent £1,100.00 on the 3008.. so I decided to stick with my 608 as it still has 3.5 yrs warranty left on it.. I have the M1's as surrounds and the CMC2 as a centre .. I think this amp is more than capable of dealing with this setup ..

Please let me know what you think .. do you think I should stick with the 3008? maybe I have just not compared them enough or in reality there is not much of a difference to what I hear?

Thanks bro appreciate your advice..

what did i tell you on my first response to you in post 2? i eluded to the fact that i suspected that you were giving in to peer pressure and that you never stated that you didn't like the sound of your current receiver. i don't think your crazy, i think you gave into pack mentality

don't feel bad, this site and others like it are full of folks who either give in to join the crowd or are pressured into feeling bad or not "up to scratch" with the gear they have even though they are happy with it.

sometimes the grass is not greener on the other side; it just cost more!

stick with what you have and keep it for as long as you, yes, i said you, are happy with it!

best of luck to ya buddy.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

what did i tell you on my first response to you in post 2? i eluded to the fact that i suspected that you were giving in to peer pressure and that you never stated that you didn't like the sound of your current receiver. i don't think your crazy, i think you gave into pack mentality

don't feel bad, this site and others like it are full of folks who either give in to join the crowd or are pressured into feeling bad or not "up to scratch" with the gear they have even though they are happy with it.

sometimes the grass is not greener on the other side; it just cost more!

stick with what you have and keep it for as long as you, yes, i said you, are happy with it!

best of luck to ya buddy.

Perhaps the reason he didn't hear an improvement has more to say to the room's limitations than anything else. If this is the case, investing some money into room treatments might provide you with the kind of sonic improvement you are looking for?

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by mkohman

@solardad: please tell me if you think I am crazy lol .. I have decided to send the Onkyo 3008 back for a refund as I couldn't notice any difference when comparing it to the Onkyo 608? I did the Multi XT32 but it just sounded just like the 608 did which is amazing after the Audyssey 2EQ calibration. I like the look of the Onkyo 3008 and the fact that it has sub EQ but I really cannot justify selling my 608 for peanuts having spent £1,100.00 on the 3008.. so I decided to stick with my 608 as it still has 3.5 yrs warranty left on it.. I have the M1's as surrounds and the CMC2 as a centre .. I think this amp is more than capable of dealing with this setup ..

Please let me know what you think .. do you think I should stick with the 3008? maybe I have just not compared them enough or in reality there is not much of a difference to what I hear?

Thanks bro appreciate your advice..

I took a look at the specs of your speakers, and they don't need a large amount of power, but they do need a receiver or amp that is pretty robust. They are 8ohm nominal, but they dip down to 3ohms and they have an efficiency of 89dB's which is not very efficient but not too inefficient either. See...even though a receiver may not be rated for low impedance performance it can still be effective at driving most speakers. Many people in the forums will swear that you need an ultra expensive receiver or an amp to drive a good number of speakers, but this is usually not the case. Most mid-range and even some entry level receivers can drive the majority of speakers just fine. Its only when you want to listen to them at an unusually loud level for extended periods of time that you can potentially run into problems.

Most people just don't push the volume up nearly enough to strain their receivers though. I have a TX-SR605 that I temporarily had connected to my Prefaces and there wasn't a lack of power with it. My speakers are 4ohm and can use more power than yours, but even still the 605 could push them pretty well. It never got unusually hot either. The only problem I had was that it was just a poor match with my speakers. It just had a harshness and it sounded blah. No distortion or clipping occurred, but the 605 has a sound characteristic at the top-end that just doesn't work well with my speakers at all.

When I swapped it out for a Yamaha RX-V867 I actually noticed a power drop, but it still worked OK until I added my power hungry 5ohm center channel and that's when things came crashing down, and I was forced to add an amp. This is not a common scenario for most people though. I listened to some B&W 683 and 684 speakers and I found them pretty easy to drive and the specs aren't far off of from yours. The 608 should be robust enough to handle them, and if you didn't hear much difference with the 3008 at the loudest levels you listen at then you probably don't need it. The 608 is a THX Select2 receiver which is required to have 4ohm stability in order to get that certification, so with your speakers being 8ohm nominal with the occasional impedance dip you should be fine. So sit back and enjoy your speakers.