need some advice on receiver selection

[davidp71]

I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-32 now, that I want to sell and try a new brand. I have used Pioneer elite for years now and want to try something different. I am leaning to an Integra 30.3 which would probably compare to my elite now, but may spend the 1000 and either go Integra 40.3 or Anthem MRX-300 for the same price.....what to do?? Any advice?

[jomari]

stick with pioneer.

on a serious note, its difficult to assess your situation.

do you want to
- go completely separates and hit the pre/pro configuration? if so, what adjustments would you want to work with, and whats the budget for it?
- just get a new AVR to replace your current one
- use the money you will make from selling the pioneer to put towards the new AVR/Prepro or are you using that as 'additional' funding for it?

For what its worth, upgraditis is a painful process, and i completely understand where your coming from.

For what its worth, have you tried to listen to Dynaudios?

[callas01]

Originally Posted by davidp71

I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-32 now, that I want to sell and try a new brand. I have used Pioneer elite for years now and want to try something different. I am leaning to an Integra 30.3 which would probably compare to my elite now, but may spend the 1000 and either go Integra 40.3 or Anthem MRX-300 for the same price.....what to do?? Any advice?

i considered pioneer when looking for a receiver for my speakers, I ended up with an integra 40.2 and love it. Best receiver I've ever had. I heard the anthem 300, very nice receiver also.

Jomari, I have dyns..... I love them.

[davidp71]

I am looking to just put the money towards a new receiver. I have listened to Anthem and Integra so far and I know alot of people have Integra and love them. Gonna go look some more this weekend at the Integra.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by davidp71

I am looking to just put the money towards a new receiver. I have listened to Anthem and Integra so far and I know alot of people have Integra and love them. Gonna go look some more this weekend at the Integra.

Well I can't speak for Anthem, but if you like the Onkyo/Integra sound then its a good way to go. I'm thinking that the added warmth would be good for Paradigm speakers. You could also look at NAD and Yamaha as other warm options that should match up well with your speakers.

[Emotiva]

Originally Posted by davidp71

I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-32 now, that I want to sell and try a new brand. I have used Pioneer elite for years now and want to try something different. I am leaning to an Integra 30.3 which would probably compare to my elite now, but may spend the 1000 and either go Integra 40.3 or Anthem MRX-300 for the same price.....what to do?? Any advice?

I used to own a Pioneer Elite VSX-43TX back in the day and I honestly can say that the new Pioneer Elite receivers are not like they used to be
I would keep your Pioneer Elite VSX 32 because it is still somewhat an Elite
I went to Best Buy today to check out the look and feel of the new receivers and I was amazed in disappointment!!

All the Pioneer Elite receivers they had plastic front panels, and I am sorry but Pioneer was well known for their Urushi black lacquer finish!!
So it seems that only the very highly priced receivers are like they used to be.
Also these new receivers are light and don't sound right.

Even Denon is following Pioneer because even their AVR 3312CI is plastic, and that is why I won't buy another Denon. My AVR 2808CI is still a true Denon, aluminum front panel and Made in Japan

The only brand that impressed me was Yamaha's Aventage lineup!!!
Especially the RX-A 1010 and RX-A 2010
I am getting one soon
They are built like tanks and are huge receivers, they make others look tiny.

Yamaha is the way to go and it's just sad that companies like Denon and Pioneer are cutting corners in construction.
The only Pioneer Elite I like is the SC lineup

Good luck in finding something different but give Yamaha Aventage a try

Emo

[Mirage29]

do you really want to give up on pioneer elite they make some best receivers. I love the the sc-37. It has many listining modes and it also did well with home theater magazines labratory tests. Pioneer ICE amps have out performed everybody else on labratory tests. The biggest difference between using Receiver and seperate amp. Is that a lot of receivers loose a lot of power when all channels are driven. Pioneer Elite ICE amps only loose about 5 watts when all channel are drive into 8 ohms load that is about as good as it's going to get for a receiver

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Emotiva

I used to own a Pioneer Elite VSX-43TX back in the day and I honestly can say that the new Pioneer Elite receivers are not like they used to be
I would keep your Pioneer Elite VSX 32 because it is still somewhat an Elite
I went to Best Buy today to check out the look and feel of the new receivers and I was amazed in disappointment!!

All the Pioneer Elite receivers they had plastic front panels, and I am sorry but Pioneer was well known for their Urushi black lacquer finish!!
So it seems that only the very highly priced receivers are like they used to be.
Also these new receivers are light and don't sound right.

Even Denon is following Pioneer because even their AVR 3312CI is plastic, and that is why I won't buy another Denon. My AVR 2808CI is still a true Denon, aluminum front panel and Made in Japan

The only brand that impressed me was Yamaha's Aventage lineup!!!
Especially the RX-A 1010 and RX-A 2010
I am getting one soon
They are built like tanks and are huge receivers, they make others look tiny.

Yamaha is the way to go and it's just sad that companies like Denon and Pioneer are cutting corners in construction.
The only Pioneer Elite I like is the SC lineup

Good luck in finding something different but give Yamaha Aventage a try

Emo

Actually the VSX-32 and VSX-33 are just as heavy as Elites of recent years coming in over 30lbs each. The highly praised VSX-1120 is a clone of the VSX-32 as well. The VSX-30 and VSX-31 on the other hand are just clones of the VSX-1020. This was the first time Pioneer offered more than two VSX Elite models in recent years, and I'm sure it was just fill a niche market.

This is no different than what Yamaha has done with the lower models in the Aventage series. The RX-A700 and RX-A800 are clones of the RX-667 and RX-867 respectively. The RX-A1000 is also only a slight step-up from the RX-A800 as well. I might add that the VSX-33 has an aluminum bezel being it was the top of the VSX model last year.

Fast forward to this year's Eltes and Pioneer has beefed up the power supplies across the whole line of receivers, and again the top of the line VSX model, the VSX-53, has an aluminum bezel. HERE's a review for the VSX-52. This review is also applicable to the VSX-1121 and VSX-33 which are clones of this receiver. Not only did they give it a glowing review, but the test bench results far exceed anything Yamaha has put out in recent years.

With all channels driven it output 81watts/channel at 8ohms with just .06% distortion while the Yamaha RX-A2000 is shown HERE to output just 62watts/channel at 8ohms with .1% distortion. Look at the 5-channel and 2-channel results and the power gap widens further.

Yamaha may have put a little more into build quality and aesthetics with the Aventage series, but they still haven't done much about their lack of power in comparison to the competition nor have they given us a better solution to MCACC and Audyssey. IMO YPAO can't hold a candle to either of those solutions, and that also seems to be the consensus among users and reviewers alike.

Sound preference among the brands is certainly a matter of one's tastes and both brands get much praise in this matter, but the top of the line SC Pioneers seem to get the edge with most reviewers. This year's SC and top of the line VSX model were awarded best in class designation by WhatHiFi even though the competing Aventage models also got the maximum 5 stars like the Pioneers. The top Elite models truly are worthy of the 'Elite' designation. I like Yamaha, but IMO Pioneer still offers the better receivers.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

Actually the VSX-32 and VSX-33 are just as heavy as Elites of recent years coming in over 30lbs each. The highly praised VSX-1120 is a clone of the VSX-32 as well. The VSX-30 and VSX-31 on the other hand are just clones of the VSX-1020. This was the first time Pioneer offered more than two VSX Elite models in recent years, and I'm sure it was just fill a niche market.

This is no different than what Yamaha has done with the lower models in the Aventage series. The RX-A700 and RX-A800 are clones of the RX-667 and RX-867 respectively. The RX-A1000 is also only a slight step-up from the RX-A800 as well. I might add that the VSX-33 has an aluminum bezel being it was the top of the VSX model last year.

Fast forward to this year's Eltes and Pioneer has beefed up the power supplies across the whole line of receivers, and again the top of the line VSX model, the VSX-53, has an aluminum bezel. HERE's a review for the VSX-52. This review is also applicable to the VSX-1121 and VSX-33 which are clones of this receiver. Not only did they give it a glowing review, but the test bench results far exceed anything Yamaha has put out in recent years.

With all channels driven it output 81watts/channel at 8ohms with just .06% distortion while the Yamaha RX-A2000 is shown HERE to output just 62watts/channel at 8ohms with .1% distortion. Look at the 5-channel and 2-channel results and the power gap widens further.

Yamaha may have put a little more into build quality and aesthetics with the Aventage series, but they still haven't done much about their lack of power in comparison to the competition nor have they given us a better solution to MCACC and Audyssey. IMO YPAO can't hold a candle to either of those solutions, and that also seems to be the consensus among users and reviewers alike.

Sound preference among the brands is certainly a matter of one's tastes and both brands get much praise in this matter, but the top of the line SC Pioneers seem to get the edge with most reviewers. This year's SC and top of the line VSX model were awarded best in class designation by WhatHiFi even though the competing Aventage models also got the maximum 5 stars like the Pioneers. The top Elite models truly are worthy of the 'Elite' designation. I like Yamaha, but IMO Pioneer still offers the better receivers.

this is all a matter of subjectivity. I can't wait to hear the new SC with the AIR Studios licensing, as Air Studios help set the voicing of the new SC, and its supposed to not sound like a class D digital amp. However even in the most recent review of the new SC the reviewer said that he'd still prefer a solid Class AB unit over it, however it was a leap in sonic performance for Class D amps, which he cites he didn't like the Rotel.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...eceiver-page-2

I agree that Pioneers power has increased, and that is a very good thing. Im sure their power performance will be much better. Even the 821's tested numbers have picked up. Im not a class D amp person, but if these sound sonically better and put up better test numbers, as its looking like in the reviews, Id be more inclined again to tell people to buy them.

BUT, the T+A integrated amp sounds PHENOMINAL, with its Mosfet transistors. But it still does have a little of that digi sound.

[Emotiva]

Originally Posted by callas01

this is all a matter of subjectivity. I can't wait to hear the new SC with the AIR Studios licensing, as Air Studios help set the voicing of the new SC, and its supposed to not sound like a class D digital amp. However even in the most recent review of the new SC the reviewer said that he'd still prefer a solid Class AB unit over it, however it was a leap in sonic performance for Class D amps, which he cites he didn't like the Rotel.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...eceiver-page-2

I agree that Pioneers power has increased, and that is a very good thing. Im sure their power performance will be much better. Even the 821's tested numbers have picked up. Im not a class D amp person, but if these sound sonically better and put up better test numbers, as its looking like in the reviews, Id be more inclined again to tell people to buy them.

BUT, the T+A integrated amp sounds PHENOMINAL, with its Mosfet transistors. But it still does have a little of that digi sound.

I will agree that the SC lineup from Pioneer Elite is state of the art and are heavy and amazing, but I will not get any of the VSX from them.
The VSX-53 Elite costs more then the Yamaha RXA-1010 Aventage, so after seeing them in person, I would prefer the Yamaha.
I wont get into the SC lineup because they are very expensive and somewhat overpriced for an AV Receiver.
I have used Harman Kardon, Denon, Sony ES, Pioneer Elite and Yamaha before, but for my purpose of a bedroom receiver I think the Yamaha Aventage lineup will do just fine. If I want more power I will get another Emotiva PowerAmp.

The SC from Pioneer Elite are amazing indeed, but so is the price!!

[Mirage29]

if you don't mind a getting a used one you could get a sc 35 for a little over 700 bucks. But yeah for the most part you are right the sc series cost a lot of money but they are worth it to me. They are some recivers out there that claim to be 100 watts but once all channels are driven they are dropping down to about 60 watts. That is huge difference. I am just wondering how many watts can your speakers take

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by callas01

this is all a matter of subjectivity. I can't wait to hear the new SC with the AIR Studios licensing, as Air Studios help set the voicing of the new SC, and its supposed to not sound like a class D digital amp. However even in the most recent review of the new SC the reviewer said that he'd still prefer a solid Class AB unit over it, however it was a leap in sonic performance for Class D amps, which he cites he didn't like the Rotel.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...eceiver-page-2

I agree that Pioneers power has increased, and that is a very good thing. Im sure their power performance will be much better. Even the 821's tested numbers have picked up. Im not a class D amp person, but if these sound sonically better and put up better test numbers, as its looking like in the reviews, Id be more inclined again to tell people to buy them.

BUT, the T+A integrated amp sounds PHENOMINAL, with its Mosfet transistors. But it still does have a little of that digi sound.

I checked it out recently and all I can say is wow. I've always been blown away by the SC series, but yeah there is still a Class D characteristic no matter how you cut it. Not everyone likes Class D characteristics, but one thing I can say is that distortion is lower than anything out there that I'm aware of and the level of detail is nothing short of breathtaking. There is also a very airy sound to the top-end as well. Again though...its not for everyone, but I myself love it. I not only have a Class D receiver, but my amp is Class D as well.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Emotiva

I will agree that the SC lineup from Pioneer Elite is state of the art and are heavy and amazing, but I will not get any of the VSX from them.
The VSX-53 Elite costs more then the Yamaha RXA-1010 Aventage, so after seeing them in person, I would prefer the Yamaha.
I wont get into the SC lineup because they are very expensive and somewhat overpriced for an AV Receiver.
I have used Harman Kardon, Denon, Sony ES, Pioneer Elite and Yamaha before, but for my purpose of a bedroom receiver I think the Yamaha Aventage lineup will do just fine. If I want more power I will get another Emotiva PowerAmp.

The SC from Pioneer Elite are amazing indeed, but so is the price!!

There's nothing wrong with your preference, but I just wanted to point out to you that your reasoning for disliking the VSX series was flawed. The top two VSX Elite models and the top non-Elite VSX model are just as robust as their Aventage counterparts. I should also point out the VSX-53 retails for $999.99 just as the RX-A1010 does at any authorized dealer. Both can actually be had for around $750 from non-authorized sources.

Avindemand.com is probably the best non-authorized source for either right now unless you find a reputable Ebay retailer and get a SquareTrade warranty. Both are indeed great receivers so if you prefer the RX-A1010 then certainly go for it. You may even want to look at the RX-A1000 instead since you can get it for $600 shipped from Newegg right now. That's the way I would go if I were looking to go with Yamaha.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

I checked it out recently and all I can say is wow. I've always been blown away by the SC series, but yeah there is still a Class D characteristic no matter how you cut it. Not everyone likes Class D characteristics, but one thing I can say is that distortion is lower than anything out there that I'm aware of and the level of detail is nothing short of breathtaking. There is also a very airy sound to the top-end as well. Again though...its not for everyone, but I myself love it. I not only have a Class D receiver, but my amp is Class D as well.

The biggest thing to me is that I play a lot of music, and I have yet to hear a Class D receiver or Integrated Amp that sounds a good as a Class AB solid state or tube amp, or Class A tube amp. That is where I think the Integras, NADs, Anthems, Arcams etc start to sound better. HT I can careless about, but when I play music, I want it to sound as natural as it can, and I haven't got that from a class D amp yet. Ill be heading to BB soon and will take some Norah Jones, Coltrane and rock music to see how the SC57 stacks up to my Integra. Of course itll be tough to compare the B&Ws to my Dyns, but it'll be the closest I can get in their store.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by callas01

The biggest thing to me is that I play a lot of music, and I have yet to hear a Class D receiver or Integrated Amp that sounds a good as a Class AB solid state or tube amp, or Class A tube amp. That is where I think the Integras, NADs, Anthems, Arcams etc start to sound better. HT I can careless about, but when I play music, I want it to sound as natural as it can, and I haven't got that from a class D amp yet. Ill be heading to BB soon and will take some Norah Jones, Coltrane and rock music to see how the SC57 stacks up to my Integra. Of course itll be tough to compare the B&Ws to my Dyns, but it'll be the closest I can get in their store.

That's going to be apples and oranges my friend. B&W's are voiced differently than Dynaudio speakers. I've listened to both and my ears lean towards the sound of Dynaudio. (I do however love the sound of B&W as well - generally their upper lines - the 802 is amazing - but I like the Dynaudio Confidence series better - get my drift)?

[callas01]

Originally Posted by prerich

That's going to be apples and oranges my friend. B&W's are voiced differently than Dynaudio speakers. I've listened to both and my ears lean towards the sound of Dynaudio. (I do however love the sound of B&W as well - generally their upper lines - the 802 is amazing - but I like the Dynaudio Confidence series better - get my drift)?

Oh I know what you mean. My dad has owned B&W for years, so I know how B&Ws sound. I do prefer the Dyns more. Im used to that B&W sound... where the Dyns have basically no sound characteristic (you know what I mean)... However, since Im not going to buy a $2100 receiver and BB won't let me bring in my X16s, Ill have to use the B&Ws that they have there to see what the pio SC57 sounds like... either that OR I use Energys, which I used to own... either way, Im familiar enough with the sound of each of the speakers to get a good idea of what the pioneer will sound like.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by callas01

Oh I know what you mean. My dad has owned B&W for years, so I know how B&Ws sound. I do prefer the Dyns more. Im used to that B&W sound... where the Dyns have basically no sound characteristic (you know what I mean)... However, since Im not going to buy a $2100 receiver and BB won't let me bring in my X16s, Ill have to use the B&Ws that they have there to see what the pio SC57 sounds like... either that OR I use Energys, which I used to own... either way, Im familiar enough with the sound of each of the speakers to get a good idea of what the pioneer will sound like.

got'cha!

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by callas01

The biggest thing to me is that I play a lot of music, and I have yet to hear a Class D receiver or Integrated Amp that sounds a good as a Class AB solid state or tube amp, or Class A tube amp. That is where I think the Integras, NADs, Anthems, Arcams etc start to sound better. HT I can careless about, but when I play music, I want it to sound as natural as it can, and I haven't got that from a class D amp yet. Ill be heading to BB soon and will take some Norah Jones, Coltrane and rock music to see how the SC57 stacks up to my Integra. Of course itll be tough to compare the B&Ws to my Dyns, but it'll be the closest I can get in their store.

I understand what you mean, but I personally love how Pioneer handles music myself. Their all-channel stereo mode sounds awesome and their other surround modes do as well. I do think that the VSX models have been a little lacking in 2-channel while the SC series has always been much better in that respect. I did find the VSX-52 and VSX-53 to be much improved in 2-channel than past models though. The SC-55 was still better, but that was to be expected. I was quite impressed with how close the overall sound was to the SC though. I'm not a 2-channel guy so its never been a factor for me. Outside of the office setup which now has a NAD integrated there's been no desire for any 2-channel listening, but that's just me. I'm just a multi-channel guy myself. I certainly would like to hear your impressions after you get a chance to demo for yourself.

[biotechsmc]

I currently own a pioneer elite 84TXsi in one of my systems and it has served me flawlessly since July 2006. I do agree with what lojack says about the sound, but would like to add in 2 channel mode it does sound pretty good with boston acoustics VRm90 speakers, as well as polk RTi-A9 speakers

I was contemplating trying the yamaha RX-A2000 and actually bought one when amazon had them for $799, but sent it back unopened since I decided to try the new elite line, which leads me to my question.

Who are the most reputable/safe online retailers for purchasing a new SC-55 from? I live on Maui and there is no Magnolia/best buy on my island, and don't want to drop $200 in airfare (to travel inter island) plus pay full price at best buy on Oahu.

[sonic_debauchery]

After reading the posts, i would like to say that i found an sc55 on amazon for 1099. SC57 for 1499. The beauty is that you wouldn't have to buy a power amplifier or amplifiers.

Whoever said they are overpriced should compare getting a good class A/B receiver and a 9 channel power amplifier. Gonna be more expensive. An emotiva XPA 5 899; XPA3 699; XPA1 849 [There is a sale on emotiva power amps right now] to equal 9 channels driven. Pretty good price for the Pioneer.

Here is the conclusion to the review of the sc57. Remember the difference between the 55 and 57 is very minimal.

Conclusion
If you can get past the less than user-friendly GUI and instruction manual and the unintuitive first-time setup and make it a point to tap the smartphone app, you’ll find that using the SC-57 is a pleasure. And while Pioneer’s MCACC setup and room correction software may have an ungainly name, its effectiveness is impressive, even transformative.

This AVR’s nine-channel, three-zone capabilities (including HD component video available to Zone 2) offer unparalleled setup flexibility. If your speakers can be biamped, I’d bet the sonic improvement would be noticeable. The system’s somewhat dark character will work better with speakers that are either bright or relatively flat on top and less well with already dark speakers that tend roll off the highs. But whatever your speakers’ tonal character, there should be more than sufficient power to drive them to their full dynamic potential.

As an old stalwart, I still prefer a good Class A/B amp. But the Pioneer Elite SC-57’s Class D amp is so good that in some ways it’s more a matter of different than better or worse. I can understand why some might prefer its sonic character. In the end, the SC-57 offers a lot of everything—including great sound—at a very reasonable price


Finally here is the link to the entire article for you to read.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...eceiver-page-2