Some basic Reel to Reel (R2R) questions

[singhcr]

Hi there,

I'm looking forward to taking my first steps into the world of reel to reel recordings and I have some questions.

1. Firstly, what would a good starter deck be? I'm looking to spend $100 or so. From what I can tell, the Akai and Teac units seem to be the most popular. As I'm going for commercial tapes here (although I want to do some recording of my own) I'm looking to stay with the 3.75 and 7.5 ips tape speeds.

2. As my Klipsch Hersey speakers are not magnetically shielded, do I need to worry about keeping my R2R deck too close to them? My deck would be about 2 feet away from my speakers giving the arrangement I have now.

Thanks in advance!

[FreddieFerric]

You have to consider that R2R decks are no longer in current production from any major brand. The Akai and Teac decks were good for the day, but have been out of production for in excess of 20 years. My point in this is to not get your hopes too high, especially in the price range you mention. Take it from an owner of 3 R2R's. You had better nail down in advance a qualified service tech who actually knows how to fix old decks, because they do (and will break down). Quality decks in good condition usually fetch in excess of your price point.

You also might want to consider Pioneer decks. They were well made and I always see them for sale on ebay, craigslist, audiogon, etc.

Good luck with your search. Patience, diligence and a bit of luck is pretty much all it takes.

[singhcr]

Thanks for the info and for your encouragement! Right now I found some local decks for sale:

AKAI 4000DS MK-II $150
Teac A-1200 $50
Kenwood KW5066 $50

Right now I'm leaning toward the Akai as the A-1200 isn't very common and I couldn't find much about the Kenwood deck. I haven't seen any Pioneer ones yet. My grandfather was a minister who made many recordings of his sermons on R2R tape for eventual radio broadcast. Right now the person who is in possession of these tapes wants to make MP3 recordings of them, so I plan on buying a deck for myself and making proper copies of them as I have the ability to make 192/24 PCM recordings now and can easily make 96/24 DVD-Video copies to distribute to the rest of the family.

[singhcr]

Well, I have a Revox A77 4-track 3.75/7.5 ips deck coming my way any day now...

I'll let you know how it turns out.

[FreddieFerric]

Very nice. Which model?

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by BluRayFred

Very nice. Which model?

Thanks! I'm looking forward to its arrival

If you mean MkI, MkII, etc, I'm not sure.. I'll have to check the serial number when I get it to find that out.

[singhcr]

Well, that was definitely a case of false advertising because that Revox unit was in absolutely terrible condition. The wood paneling had fallen away, the front of the unit had a big chip missing from the corner, and the aluminum frame was bent by a good 20 degrees or so. I couldn't get the unit to power on again after it worked a few times. Thankfully I got a full refund and I have the deck at home to play around with in case I can get it working again.

In the meantime I won a working Pioneer 707 deck that I am looking forward to using.

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Well, that was definitely a case of false advertising because that Revox unit was in absolutely terrible condition. The wood paneling had fallen away, the front of the unit had a big chip missing from the corner, and the aluminum frame was bent by a good 20 degrees or so. I couldn't get the unit to power on again after it worked a few times. Thankfully I got a full refund and I have the deck at home to play around with in case I can get it working again.

In the meantime I won a working Pioneer 707 deck that I am looking forward to using.

Wow, what a bummer! But the 707 is a good deck and still repairable if the need arises.

[singhcr]

That's good to hear. The 707 gets good marks amongst collectors from what I can gather and it also looks quite attractive too. The direct drive system is also appealing from a reliability standpoint.

I wonder if the engineers who designed these units thought they would still see use over 40 years into the future!

[singhcr]

I got the 707 in today. I cleaned the entire tape path and demagnetized the heads.

So far, the 3.75 ips tapes I have sound like absolute garbage. I thought tape hiss was supposed to be less intrusive than the pops and cracks of LP dust but that's not the case. The dynamic range is really shallow and honestly an MP3 would sound better, I am not joking.

I tried the following 3.75 IPS tapes.

Bee Gees- Best of Vol 1 (I have the LP and it sounds fantastic, this just sounds terrible)
Journey- Departure (again, the LP sounds far, far better. This R2R is absolutely horrible; I refuse to believe a tape can sound that bad. Youtube sounds better than this! I am not joking.)

I had a 7.5 IPS tape also called "Cole Plays Cole" from the 1960s. That sounded pretty good, but still sounded flat and lacked the dynamics of an LP.

In any case the recordings are very painful to listen to with my headphones, although the speakers sound much better.

Considering all of the high praise that the 707 gets, I am wondering what is wrong with it. I cleaned the heads/tape guide/capstan until the Q-tips were white, and I demagnetized the tape path. According to the manual, the solution is to clean and demag everything, which I did before I played a tape.

Perhaps the demagnetizer wasn't strong enough?

I also have the option of aligning the tape heads. Do you just run a tape and align it by ear as you go?

Thanks in advance!

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by singhcr

I got the 707 in today. I cleaned the entire tape path and demagnetized the heads.

So far, the 3.75 ips tapes I have sound like absolute garbage. I thought tape hiss was supposed to be less intrusive than the pops and cracks of LP dust but that's not the case. The dynamic range is really shallow and honestly an MP3 would sound better, I am not joking.

I tried the following 3.75 IPS tapes.

Bee Gees- Best of Vol 1 (I have the LP and it sounds fantastic, this just sounds terrible)
Journey- Departure (again, the LP sounds far, far better. This R2R is absolutely horrible; I refuse to believe a tape can sound that bad. Youtube sounds better than this! I am not joking.)

I had a 7.5 IPS tape also called "Cole Plays Cole" from the 1960s. That sounded pretty good, but still sounded flat and lacked the dynamics of an LP.

In any case the recordings are very painful to listen to with my headphones, although the speakers sound much better.

Considering all of the high praise that the 707 gets, I am wondering what is wrong with it. I cleaned the heads/tape guide/capstan until the Q-tips were white, and I demagnetized the tape path. According to the manual, the solution is to clean and demag everything, which I did before I played a tape.

Perhaps the demagnetizer wasn't strong enough?

I also have the option of aligning the tape heads. Do you just run a tape and align it by ear as you go?

Thanks in advance!

The 3.75 ips speed would be good for something like am radio talk show material and not much else.

My first question concerns the source material. where did you get the tapes and what kind of equipment where they recorded on?

Second question: What is the brand of tape and how old is it?

Thirdly: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES make any adjustments to the heads. It's a virtual lock you will do nothing but make matters worse.

[singhcr]

These are all Ampex tapes- the Bee Gees one as well as Cole Plays Cole was from the 1960s and the Journey one would be from the 1980s. They are all pre-recorded tapes so I'm not sure what equipment they would be recorded on.

I've been talking to people at the TapeHeads forum and I got a can of DeOxit and sprayed all of the pots and switches a few hours ago. The unit sounds much better now, but not nearly as good as my LPs do.

Thanks for the warning about trying to re-align the heads. That was my first idea to fix the problem, but your warning along with a bunch from other people changed my mind rather quickly!

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by singhcr

These are all Ampex tapes- the Bee Gees one as well as Cole Plays Cole was from the 1960s and the Journey one would be from the 1980s. They are all pre-recorded tapes so I'm not sure what equipment they would be recorded on.

I've been talking to people at the TapeHeads forum and I got a can of DeOxit and sprayed all of the pots and switches a few hours ago. The unit sounds much better now, but not nearly as good as my LPs do.

Thanks for the warning about trying to re-align the heads. That was my first idea to fix the problem, but your warning along with a bunch from other people changed my mind rather quickly!

The other part of the equation is the old Ampex tapes. At this point in time they are virtually worthless because of their age. Ampex did not use polyester backing unlike Maxell and TDK. I have numerous old Ampex tapes that I will not play on any of my 3 RTR's because of shedding problems. In fact, the last Ampex sealed tape that I tried to use last year ruined my Teac X1000R and the repair cost nearly $500.00 in parts and labor.

Search around on ebay for SEALED Maxell UD and TDK Audua tape. Those two are still fairly common. Make your own recordings.

I'm afraid that's about all the advice I can give. And oh, I almost forgot, if you do go into recording your own, then please invest in an inexpensive bulk eraser. Use it, even on new tape.

Good luck!

[singhcr]

I thought the Ampex issue was only related to blank tape, not the pre-recorded ones. The tapes don't shed on me, the recordings just stink.

I will look out for some of the blank tapes you suggested. I would like to try my hand at recording live music. I plan on taking singing lessons soon so it would be a fun project.

Thanks for the info!