what are they going to do:..now.?

[joeorc]

look at the gloating at AVS..but amongst all the gloating what happens when:

Toshiba is still all alone and the CE companies still support ONLY Blu-Ray

Sell $50 players?
The way Toshiba is going if they were to win why would any other electronics company want to make/sell hddvd players if there's little to no profit compared to Toshiba "loss leader".

yea why would they.....

someone else made this statement:

It's true, it's true...

And at the $99 Vs. $399 spread, I can't justify thinking about a A30 or A35 anymore. Why spend 4 times as much when I will be quite happy with a $100 A2 or two.

yup ...

I WILL SAY IT ONCE AGAIN...a product of its own demise that's HD DVD .. enjoy it while it lasts ..no CE companies other than Toshiba makeing HD DVD optical drives means every other OPTICAL DRIVE COMPANY MAKES ONLY BLU-RAY optical drives now because there is more Money in the Blu-Ray format.

so the entire movie industry has to wait on one company to make all their
HD DVD PLAYER'S. ..what HD DVD players from China did you say where are those..can even players in CHINA for HD DVD be sold for less than $98.00 or even $198.00, or even $150.00..whats the price of that other HD DVD player from CHINA...what was the price of that ?...that walmart would not even carry.?

[RobertB]

Originally Posted by joeorc

look at the gloating at AVS..but amongst all the gloating what happens when:

Toshiba is still all alone and the CE companies still support ONLY Blu-Ray

Sell $50 players?
The way Toshiba is going if they were to win why would any other electronics company want to make/sell hddvd players if there's little to no profit compared to Toshiba "loss leader".

yea why would they.....

someone else made this statement:

It's true, it's true...

And at the $99 Vs. $399 spread, I can't justify thinking about a A30 or A35 anymore. Why spend 4 times as much when I will be quite happy with a $100 A2 or two.

yup ...

I WILL SAY IT ONCE AGAIN...a product of its own demise that's HD DVD .. enjoy it while it lasts ..no CE companies other than Toshiba makeing HD DVD optical drives means every other OPTICAL DRIVE COMPANY MAKES ONLY BLU-RAY optical drives now because there is more Money in the Blu-Ray format.

so the entire movie industry has to wait on one company to make all their
HD DVD PLAYER'S. ..what HD DVD players from China did you say where are those..can even players in CHINA for HD DVD be sold for less than $98.00 or even $198.00, or even $150.00..whats the price of that other HD DVD player from CHINA...what was the price of that ?...that walmart would not even carry.?

HD is all about quality and 100 dollar players are not a sign of quality, but rather desperation. Whoever thinks they get a quality HD player for 100 bucks missed the clue-buss.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by RobertB

HD is all about quality and 100 dollar players are not a sign of quality, but rather desperation. Whoever thinks they get a quality HD player for 100 bucks missed the clue-buss.

and Toshiba undercutting any other CE company from getting any money out of HD DVD players and OPTICAL drives just does not help to establish itself as a viable standard if none of the other CE industry companies are makeing HD DVD optical drives..how will the movie industry react to a shortage of HD DVD players when they want to sell their movies..they stay on the shelf....until new players get sold..from a single HD DVD optical drive company..but but all exicting DVD lines can be converted to HD DVD....

no thanks Toshiba we will stick to DVD AND Blu-Ray..but ..BUT

CUTTING OTHER COMPANIES OUT OF MONEY DOES NOT MAKE YOU VERY MANY FRIENDS Sony found this out with BETAMAX so will Toshiba

[cdblu]

this is basically strike three for toshiba. All bd has to do now is have some bogo sales so the YTD sales shoot up to 80:20 and every retailer will drop hd. So while all those people who bought toshiba's crappy A2 are waiting for free discs us bd fans will be snatching up every available title 50% off!

[Beta-guy]

why not just have a special holiday price on the 1.0 BD player knock them down to $200 to compete with the cheap HD-DVD players and it'll get rid of the older models while indroducing the 1.1 players quicker to put an end to the talk about how BD can't do PiP.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by cdblu

this is basically strike three for toshiba. All bd has to do now is have some bogo sales so the YTD sales shoot up to 80:20 and every retailer will drop hd. So while all those people who bought toshiba's crappy A2 are waiting for free discs us bd fans will be snatching up every available title 50% off!

YUP...EVEN IF HD DVD has a BOGO sale...will it counter act MOVIES DAY AND DATE WITH DVD releases from FOX,SONY,DISNEY .....nope

to top it OFF a consumer looks for Cars..and finds they cannot get it in HD DVD because its only on Blu-Ray..people will say DISNEY AND FOX WILL GO OVER TO HD DVD...well

fox loves the extra protection that Blu-Ray has to offer..not just AACS
Disney like's region codeing...
and SONY well you get the picture....

CE companies still make Blu-Ray optical drives and players...because they said themselves...they "still make great UPconverting DVD players" so now we get DVD movies from

UNIVERSAL
PARAMOUNT/DREAMWORKS
AND just for the sake of argument Warner Bros. does indeed go exclusive to HD DVD after this little sales stunt...good show Toshiba by the way...


well guess what in the mean time Standard DVD will still outsell HD DVD and Blu-ray combined as it has been already, because you only get half the HD STUDIOS ON ONE FORMAT..not good for the Consumer...Warner Bros. better be sure if you think any of the other Blu-Ray studios will follow you with only one HARDWARE company makeing HD DVD optical drives and player's..better be sure.

[kwhiplash]

Watch out for the Lead content in that HD player!

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Beta-guy

why not just have a special holiday price on the 1.0 BD player knock them down to $200 to compete with the cheap HD-DVD players and it'll get rid of the older models while indroducing the 1.1 players quicker to put an end to the talk about how BD can't do PiP.

have you not seen what we have been saying...why hurt the CE companies on their bottom line...unless the CE company also makes content that can be sold on Blu-Ray disc's then the Blu-Ray hardware is what they make their money on the sale of the hardware..look at what Toshiba has been doing all last year and now...no other CE companies can make any money on
CE HD DVD hardware..so why make it...?

Toshiba going $98.00 even on a A2 the hardware cost more to build the player than the what they are selling it for....if you bring up the playstation 3 sony also make MOVIES and PLAYSTATION 3 GAMES Both of which are on Blu-Ray disc's.that have that to offset the cost

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by kwhiplash

Watch out for the Lead content in that HD player!

even if its a Warner Bros. picture..which i think it is...look at the fact that HD DVD had the Matrix on their format , and BATMAN B. AND YET How many copy's of each of those two movies has Warner Bros. sold on HD DVD upto date....
better yet all their Warner Bros. catalog movies they have put OUT on HD DVD.

NOW WHAT % OF THE NEW BUYERS OF THIS $98.00 HD DVD buyer will continue to pay $30.00 per Movie outside of the every so often HD DVD Movie sale.

even if Warner Bros. goes HD DVD exclusive with the disc sales of both the formats right now HELP END THE FORMAT WAR SINCE .

A) FOX SAID AACS is not good enough for copy protection so thats one studio right there.AACS was already cracked
B) Sony would be out as long as they are not the alone for support for the Blu-Ray format. so that counts fox and SONY
C) Disney loves region codeing

[snake]

joeorc it's totally right, Toshiba is practically killing the competence into their own system selling the players at ridiculous prices. Right now is expensive manufacturate a HD player...$99 dollars? gezzz...that's called in economy "dumping": when a company sells a product cheaper that it cost to do it.
Countries like China know this perfectly.

Toshi supposes that selling cheap-o-players the people will jump and buy tons of HD's movies, not now, in the future. Right now the HD-DVDs will sell for $15 on black friuday on walmart, but the next year, is that system survives, the prices return to normal, That people will spend $40 on a movie??? no way, toshi is selling the illusion of a cheap media

Even, if toshiba sells millions of players the future of the format is very obscure...again, and the competence? nobody can make a $99 hd-dvd player right now without lossing money. Toshiba is subsidizing the losses, from the players and the movies. Why, because they're going.......out!

The scale economy will make prices falls automatically, and of course the fair competence, as blu-ray is promoting. You can choose between various models, prices and features...and more will come once this tricky sales ends and that format dissapear.

Now for last, do you think is a coincidence that after the announce of warner re-evaulating the neutrality of the format support, toshiba suddenly lowered the prices of their players. Toshiba knows something will happen very soon with warner, and are trying to "show" that their format is "full of life & future" because a lot of people "bought their cheap player", and convince warner don't turn blu...

Wow. This is very interesting. We are seeing the painful agony of hd-dvd front row.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by snake

joeorc it's totally right, Toshiba is practically killing the competence into their own system selling the players at ridiculous prices. Right now is expensive manufacturate a HD player...$99 dollars? gezzz...that's called in economy "dumping": when a company sells a product cheaper that it cost to do it.
Countries like China know this perfectly.

Toshi supposes that selling cheap-o-players the people will jump and buy tons of HD's movies, not now, in the future. Right now the HD-DVDs will sell for $15 on black friuday on walmart, but the next year, is that system survives, the prices return to normal, That people will spend $40 on a movie??? no way, toshi is selling the illusion of a cheap media

Even, if toshiba sells millions of players the future of the format is very obscure...again, and the competence? nobody can make a $99 hd-dvd player right now without lossing money. Toshiba is subsidizing the losses, from the players and the movies. Why, because they're going.......out!

The scale economy will make prices falls automatically, and of course the fair competence, as blu-ray is promoting. You can choose between various models, prices and features...and more will come once this tricky sales ends and that format dissapear.

Now for last, do you think is a coincidence that after the announce of warner re-evaulating the neutrality of the format support, toshiba suddenly lowered the prices of their players. Toshiba knows something will happen very soon with warner, and are trying to "show" that their format is "full of life & future" because a lot of people "bought their cheap player", and convince warner don't turn blu...

Wow. This is very interesting. We are seeing the painful agony of hd-dvd front row.

more HD DVD BACKERS CLAIM THIS LITTLE STATEMENT..AND I JUST LAUGH:

Blu-ray
2006-2007
RIP

Yet the death of another Sony backed format. May the remains of Blu-ray lie alongside UMD, BetaMax, MemoryStick, MiniDisc, ATRAC and Super Audio CD. RIP indeed. lol

NOTICE :
UMD: which other CE company makes UMD drives other than SONY gee wiz its only on the PSP..and last time i checked a faild format is a format with no use at all. UMD is still being sold...and final fantasy :7 C.CORE has been selling steady every month since it has been released in japan

BETAMAX: once again WHAT OTHER COMPANIES MAKE BETAMAX PLAYERS WITH OUT THEM BEING A REBADGE OF A SONY PLAYER

MEMORY STICK: YOU DO KNOW Sony is not the only ones who make Memory Stick's.

Blu-Ray: yea not any other CE companies has invested money or selling the Blu-Ray format. .yea only the 9 largest PC and CE company's world wide are also PRODUCEING NOT JUST 1 BLU-RAY PLAYER BUT MULTIPLE MODELS OF Blu-Ray players .

what does HD DVD have in companies makeing HD DVD drives..which of those companies currently have a HD DVD player out aside from Toshiba and not just a rebadge of a Toshiba player.

the 1080i Toshiba HD DVD player has killed off their own 1080p Toshiba HD DVD player in sales...people are going to buy this 1080i HD DVD player than see the 1080p HD DVD player with the sticker of "true HD" explain to the people that just bought the 1080i why their $98.00 HD DVD player is not true HD....

THOUGHT SO.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by joeorc

more HD DVD BACKERS CLAIM THIS LITTLE STATEMENT..AND I JUST LAUGH:

Blu-ray
2006-2007
RIP

Yet the death of another Sony backed format. May the remains of Blu-ray lie alongside UMD, BetaMax, MemoryStick, MiniDisc, ATRAC and Super Audio CD. RIP indeed. lol

NOTICE :
UMD: which other CE company makes UMD drives other than SONY gee wiz its only on the PSP..and last time i checked a faild format is a format with no use at all. UMD is still being sold...and final fantasy :7 C.CORE has been selling steady every month since it has been released in japan

BETAMAX: once again WHAT OTHER COMPANIES MAKE BETAMAX PLAYERS WITH OUT THEM BEING A REBADGE OF A SONY PLAYER

MEMORY STICK: YOU DO KNOW Sony is not the only ones who make Memory Stick's.

Blu-Ray: yea not any other CE companies has invested money or selling the Blu-Ray format. .yea only the 9 largest PC and CE company's world wide are also PRODUCEING NOT JUST 1 BLU-RAY PLAYER BUT MULTIPLE MODELS OF Blu-Ray players .

what does HD DVD have in companies makeing HD DVD drives..which of those companies currently have a HD DVD player out aside from Toshiba and not just a rebadge of a Toshiba player.

the 1080i Toshiba HD DVD player has killed off their own 1080p Toshiba HD DVD player in sales...people are going to buy this 1080i HD DVD player than see the 1080p HD DVD player with the sticker of "true HD" explain to the people that just bought the 1080i why their $98.00 HD DVD player is not true HD....

THOUGHT SO.

the other part they don't mention is the fact that ...unlike the other scenario's, Sony isn't alone here...

Toshiba pretty much has MS.........AND THAT'S IT....

they seem like the "Sony" here when you think about their failed products...because in all of those instances, Sony was pretty much alone...much like Toshiba is here...

with all of the strong companies surrounding Blu-ray, the comparison can be made to the Playstation brand....

and while it's too early to predict the future of the PS3....the PSX and PS2 were pretty much the dominant forces in their era's...

and what about all of the top notch HDTV's and the Walkman brand that has dominated the way people watch TV and listen to music on the go....

Toshiba and MS are known for nothing other than milking people by holding back technology....

MS has Windows which has pretty much always sucked but is paid to be everywhere...Zune...and umm yeah I don't care about anything else they have supported....and then you have Toshiba......yeah...ummmmmmm

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by The Don

the other part they don't mention is the fact that ...unlike the other scenario's, Sony isn't alone here...

Toshiba pretty much has MS.........AND THAT'S IT....

they seem like the "Sony" here when you think about their failed products...because in all of those instances, Sony was pretty much alone...much like Toshiba is here...

with all of the strong companies surrounding Blu-ray, the comparison can be made to the Playstation brand....

and while it's too early to predict the future of the PS3....the PSX and PS2 were pretty much the dominant forces in their era's...

and what about all of the top notch HDTV's and the Walkman brand that has dominated the way people watch TV and listen to music on the go....

Toshiba and MS are known for nothing other than milking people by holding back technology....

MS has Windows which has pretty much always sucked but is paid to be everywhere...Zune...and umm yeah I don't care about anything else they have supported....and then you have Toshiba......yeah...ummmmmmm

that's a perfect example..gamestop's and EB game's sell the ZUNE...what no APPLE IPOD... ,even the IPOD can get games loaded on the IPOD for the person to play.yea the PSP is also a MP3 player but it also plays games. but the ZUNE....being sold in a game store...

[Grisle]

I have to say I hope what you guys are saying comes true because people who get a cheap system aren't always cheap people. Let's assume someone has been waiting for a cheap player so they see this and pick it up...then they get Transformers and they're happy with HD because they're used to SD or Cable HD and they think this is as good as it gets...then maybe they are more willing to shell out more money. Let's also not forget that HD-DVDs are the same price as BDs for the most part unless you're gettig those crappy combos. You can find a lot of movies for $19.99 which is not a bad price. I may be a little too pessimistic, but these stupid price cuts have me nervous. Please don't flame me because I'm hoping that what you guys are saying comes true...I'm just uneasy.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Grisle

I have to say I hope what you guys are saying comes true because people who get a cheap system aren't always cheap people. Let's assume someone has been waiting for a cheap player so they see this and pick it up...then they get Transformers and they're happy with HD because they're used to SD or Cable HD and they think this is as good as it gets...then maybe they are more willing to shell out more money. Let's also not forget that HD-DVDs are the same price as BDs for the most part unless you're gettig those crappy combos. You can find a lot of movies for $19.99 which is not a bad price. I may be a little too pessimistic, but these stupid price cuts have me nervous. Please don't flame me because I'm hoping that what you guys are saying comes true...I'm just uneasy.

not at all

the problem is HD DVD has killed its only chance as a viable format with ONLY Toshiba makeing HD DVD player's and optical drive's none of the other CE companies can make any money on the HD DVD format..

Without the rest of the IT industry backing you Toshiba is not going to be very popular with other CE companies because Toshiba and Microsoft has forced them out to make any money on HD DVD. when companies do this the other companies do not like that. look what happened with Sony and Betamax..the rest of the IT industry did the same thing Toshiba may sell alot of these players QUICKLY , but at the loss of industry support

this is not going to end well for the HD DVD format..the 1080i HD DVD player will kill any chance for the 1080p HD DVD player. before the $30.00+ HD movies reach DVD prices just for that fact alone the mind set of the HD DVD backer "1080i is good enough" why spend more..so when you see that 1080p HD DVD player have the "true HD " STICKER WHAT does that say about the HD DVD FORMAT...

[monkyman]

Let's face it, at 99 bucks, if you still get 5 free movies it's a free player. They will sell good, but I agree if Warner goes BD exclusive, they will die. If Warner waits long enough, it will be trouble for the BDA, as media for HD DVD will catch up. A good cheap standalone blu-ray player is all we need to take away any advantage they may have. (Or Warner)

[Grisle]

I agree that they're killing their opportunity for sales. Weren't these companies supposed to be making more profit on the HD players? With DVD plyers available for $30 these companies needed a way to make more of a profit and Toshiba has effectively killed their chances of doing this on their format. At this point I suppose they figure the loss in potential player profit will be a gain in royalties. I have to give it to them though...they are doing things to shake it up. I think a lot of other companies would have rolled over by now, but these bastards keep making it tough for Blu-ray. Here's to hoping that all this stuff backfires on them.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Grisle

I agree that they're killing their opportunity for sales. Weren't these companies supposed to be making more profit on the HD players? With DVD plyers available for $30 these companies needed a way to make more of a profit and Toshiba has effectively killed their chances of doing this on their format. At this point I suppose they figure the loss in potential player profit will be a gain in royalties. I have to give it to them though...they are doing things to shake it up. I think a lot of other companies would have rolled over by now, but these bastards keep making it tough for Blu-ray. Here's to hoping that all this stuff backfires on them.

I agree...they've been kicked around every which way and they've made it to their 3rd generation player....

too bad there are only 4 or 5 types of HD DVD players available...period...and that includes the add-on and not including PC drives..

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by monkyman

Let's face it, at 99 bucks, if you still get 5 free movies it's a free player. They will sell good, but I agree if Warner goes BD exclusive, they will die. If Warner waits long enough, it will be trouble for the BDA, as media for HD DVD will catch up. A good cheap standalone blu-ray player is all we need to take away any advantage they may have. (Or Warner)

what you have to ask your self is after this little stunt..who other than Toshiba will be makeing HD DVD player's or OPTICAL DRIVES. EVEN THE other low cost player from china was not being sold in walmart..why because its was more expensive. could any other CE company sell a HD DVD player for $99.00 or let alone build it based on its base components cost per player...

now top it OFF they just lowered the player to $99.00 what happens when that price goes right back up..for a 1080p player but the buyer's this fall would have paid only $98.00 for a 1080i player which is "good enough" but the real factor is still $30.00+ per movie there are sales but one, no FOX, NO Disney, No Sony..what do they do buy DVD's until prices drop. so where does that lead HD DVD disc sales...low just like it is now...

[Grisle]

My only concern with the argument that a 1080i is not the best player available is that people don't always spend the extra money for the best. A lot of consumers are completely happy with purchasing a subpar product if they believe it's a good deal. We all have to agree that even thought it's only 1080i it is still a good deal. I'm thinking this will give them a short burst, but I think some of the people who get this player may actually get interested in Blu-ray. What if having an HD player gets them interested in news stories ad these news stories now have all this great coverage on Blu-ray and how it does all these things that their player can't do. Now these people might be thinking "It gets better than this?" So they check out BD and now they're more willing to upgade to the best that HD has to offer. Anyone else think this could happen?