70mm: 6-track mixes on Blu-ray

[Markgway]

After some contention, and for the sake of preserving only accurate information, I have removed the previous list of titles until each can be verified as having its 70mm 6-track mix represented on disc. No guesswork, no probables, only when confirmed from reliable sources will a title be re-added. No offence intended to anyone who had contributed thus, but as I'm sure you'll all agree the integrity of the thread is the most important thing. Apologies for the inconvenience.

70mm 6-track:

The Last Starfighter (Arrow UHD/BD: 4.1)
2001: A Space Odyssey (Warner UHD/2018 BD: 5.1)

[Telemachus]

Don't you use headphones?

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Most of the ones on your list are derived from six track mag elements but arent exactly 1:1 ports. Some have differences in volumes and VFX line placements while others are ground up like Mohicans.

Most of the Warner and Sony stuff have generally untouched mixes, with some releases of the more popular stuff having drastically revised ones. All home video releases of Mad Max 2 and Thunderdome post 1997 have the 70mm mixes in 5.1, while the initial UHDs had a lossy 5.1 that was a fold down of the atmos remix corected for the replacement reissues. Dont forget Warners 2018 Superman UHD had an unadvertised 5.1 lossy track based on the 70mm, which was dropped from the 2022 pressings.

Warner Year of the Dragon is confirmed to have untouched the 70mm mix in 5.1. EU BDs using MGM HD master have idenitcal 70mm mix with various tweaks.

The Paramount stuff is tricky, generally lesser titles have untampered mixes from mag elements while the bigger stuff have revisionst jobs.

MGM stuff is very tricky. Pink Panther had 70mm six track rerelease remix like Great Escape, but those elements are gone and a brand new one from mono stems and stereo score was made. The Bonds are variable, some on BD have mixes derived from six track mag tapes and others ground up.

Robocop 5.1 R rated is a brand new revisionist job, while 4.0 is the 70mm 4.2 minus LFE for some reason. Arrow 2.0 is Dolby Stereo mix. Robocop 2 5.1 is derived from mag transfer with various tweaks, 2.0 is assumed to be Dolby Stereo. Shout UHD has alternate 2.0 track derived from LD, which itself is reported to be a foldown of the 70mm 4.2.

The Fox and Disney titles are the same way. Predator 1 and 2 5.1 mixes on all releases are the 70mm mix (4.2 with LFE in one channel and duped mono rear). Predator 4.0 on BD and UHD OTOH, is strangely the same mix but with no LFE and single mono rear. Its not the Dolby Stereo mix (on initial video releases up to the 1998 DVD) which has different dynamic range but some sort of channel bleed that sometimes effects dialog and non directional elements.

Die Hard 1 & 2 5.1 are mag transfers that follow the Dolby Stereo six channel. 2.0 are Dolby Stereo mixes. Towering Inferno is 4.2 in modded 5.1 container.

Total Recall first 1997 DVD had untouched 70mm 5.1 as per letterbox Laserdisc port. SE DVD had same mix with minor differences in volume levels and was carried over to 2006 BD. Initial SudioCanal BDs and HD-DVD using their different HD master have a weird rechannled and filtered upmix from Dolby Stereo that is also high pitched from PAL conversion. StudioCanal and LG 2010 BD and UHD have brand new 5.1 and Atmos remixes making drastic changes in range and placement.

Sony Cliffhanger 5.1 is mag transfer, resembling Dolby Stereo six track mix. StudioCanal releases follows Total Recall scheme, upmixed 2.0 PAL track then new atmos remix downfold for UHD and new BD.

WB and Shout BDs of Cobra have mostly untouched DS 70mm mix in 5.1. Shout 2.0 is of Dolby Stereo.

Point Break is a very strange one. The Fox DTS DVD has 5.1 and 4.1 that are of simluar but different mixes. The DTS 5.1 is the Dolby Stereo six channel (w stereo rears) while the 4.1 is the 4.2 70mm mag (with LFE in one channel). Fox BD 5.1 is same as DVD DTS while 4.0 is different mix entirely, no LFE and has characteristics of the Dolby Stereo LRCS unfolded.

Warner BD the same 5.1 as Fox. Shout and Icon UHD and BD have completely different 5.1, a strange upmix of the Dolby Stereo 2.0 from a DVD or LD master. StudioCanal DE UHD and BD have 5.1 that matches the Fox track.

[yellowcakeuf6]

The Last of the Mohicans 2010 BD indicates the 2-track is 3-channels (L-R-S) like the Dolby Surround VHS tapes in the early days of home surround with a phantom center channel. Is this true? A bit late (2010) for that kind of a legacy track.
I still have a surround decoder with the phantom center controls.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by yellowcakeuf6

The Last of the Mohicans 2010 BD indicates the 2-track is 3-channels (L-R-S) like the Dolby Surround VHS tapes in the early days of home surround with a phantom center channel. Is this true? A bit late (2010) for that kind of a legacy track.
I still have a surround decoder with the phantom center controls.

Mohicans is proper channel configuration but the mix has been tampered with via Michael Mann's recutting (Fox DVD and BDs are NOT of the original theatrical cuts). The only modern release with the theatrical cut AND 70mm mix is the Australian Via Vision BD.

As for Alien 3, first we need to cover the first two. Alien and Aliens theatrical cut have 4.1 tracks that are the 70mm 4.2 mag. Alien 1999 DVD 5.1 has 70mm Six-Track Dolby Stereo, while the 5.1 on 2003 DVD and up is a new mix with mixing differences carried over from Directors Cut. Aliens 5.1 theatrical is also 70mm Dolby Stereo, while UHD and new BD 5.1 is a folddown of the Atmos upmix that adds heavy reverb to certain sequences.

Alien 3 1999 DVD 5.1 has a direct transfer of the 70mm DS mix. 2003 DVD on up is a new transfer from mag elements and stems, has small tweaks carried over from extended edition cut.

Shining Through 5.1 is def 70mm 4.2 mag untouched, intense range and LFE.

Patriot Games 5.1 is derived from master elements used to create Dolby Stereo six-channel, SDDS, ect. 5.1 on 4k is a folddown of Atmos, which was half upmix and half remix from stems and soundtrack score.

Platoon is kinda confusing. 1997 Live DVD has 5.1 track that resembles the 70mm 4.2, 2.0 sounds like direct Dolby Stereo tape transfer. 1998 Polygram DVD is a different master and that 5.1 is a little different, lower LFE and real stereo rears plus opening fanfare on the Orion logo (almost every other release has that silent). This could be an alternate Dolby Stereo six-channel mix, as a JPN LD uses a very similar folddown of it and a set of modern releases later down utilizes the same mix.

5.1 on the MGM DVDs on up are a new transfer from master mag elements with a few SFX additions and changes during the big sequences; 2.0 sounds like the same DS mix. 4.0 on the MGM BD is different than the Dolby Stereo 2.0, likely to be the 4.2 without LFE encoded for whatever reason.

Shout BD and UHD have 5.1 that sounds almost exact to the DS 6-channel, as it has Orion jingle and none of the SFX additions during the shootout with Dafoe's character.

Rocky had 70mm reissue runs outside the US and the 5.1s are supposedly based off that. Mono is the original mix, but most releases use a new mixdown from mono M/D/E stems and have varying SFX and cue placements.

Rocky II had 70mm DS 6-channel runs outside the US and a 2 day only US 70mm run in 1981. 5.1 follows the DS 6-ch mix with some small differences, same goes for the DS 2.0 which is also a fresh minting from master elements. Some releases have these tracks in wrong pitch.

Rocky III and IV 5.1 are mostly ports of 70mm DS 6-ch. Rocky V 5.1 seems to be LRCS mag transfer with aggressive LFE and dynamic stereo rears; may have had 70mm/DS 6-ch runs overseas in which this mix is derived from.

Lets not forget T2, which has several different mixes. Some 2.0 mixes are the Dolby Stereo LRCS, others a folddown of the 4.2 mag. Theatrical 5.1 on 1997 Live DVD and a JPN BD are a direct transfer from master mag element used to create DS 6-ch and CDS mix. 5.1 starting from the Extreme Edt DVD is also based on 6-ch master element, but has several volume and SFX impact changes heralded by sound designer Gary Rydstrom. This mix is coined "near field" that was designed and adjusted for home theater systems. Atmos on UHD/ 2018 BD is expanded remix of 5.1 near field with several other additions and changes.

The Star Trek theatrical cuts on BD and UHD have 6-channel mag transfers with small differences and fixes between each film. Some releases of Star Trek: TMP and Wrath of Kahn theatrical have 5.1s that carry over some changes and additions made for the alternate cuts. Initial DVDs seem to be the least tampered with audio wise.

There are some movies where the release versions were mono or just Dolby Stereo, but later became 5.1 only and don't exhibit characteristics of a modern remix. Bobby Deerfield supposedly had 70mm runs overseas which explains the existence of it's 5.1 that has traits of a 4.2 mag. Christine is another that reportedly had 70mm outside the US and some 5.1 tracks are based off it and others a new mix from master elements.

One in this category is Bram Stoker's Dracula. Brett. C has this to say about it:

Originally Posted by Brett C

I will chime in on this,

Bram Stoker's Dracula was mixed natively in 5.1 and the general release version is a mixdown from the 6-track magnetic master. Almost all the films mixed in 5.1 in the 1990s were mixdowns. Anyone that worked on these mixes would in no way consider the accompanying Dolby A, SR tracks for these mixes, the primary mix in regards to filmmaker intent. They are valid in that it is what most people heard, but most people heard the first 3 Star Wars films theatrically in mono, but in no way would anyone consider those the primary mixes. Theatre owners are notoriously cheap, were in those days and still are today, particularly in the US. Europe were always lot quicker to adopt the newest film tech for theatres, that's a fact.

By the mid 1980s at least 80% of all the movies made were in stereo, but less than half that number of theatres were equipped to to play anything other than in mono. Even 10 years into the adoption of the new digital formats, you still had theatres allover the place in the US still only equipped to play Dolby optical. it was pathetic, I walked out of many a screening for that reason, no excuse for that in the early to mid 2000s. So I find that whole stance rather silly. I do agree however that both tracks for Dracula should be preserved.

Apocalypse Now was the first actual 5.1 mix in 6-track with split surrounds in 1979 on about 15 screens. CDS was the first digital 5.1 format launched in 1990, it reached about 50 screens. Once again, wildly more popular in Europe. Films like Flatliners played CDS digital in Europe, but not in the US.
Theatre owners balked at the idea of paying upwards of 25K for the gear and upgrading the speakers on top of that.
The same scenario happened with Dolby Digital, SDDS and DTS.
Universal out of their own pocket, installed millions of dollars worth of DTS gear for free to nearly 800 theatres in the US for Jurassic Park in 93. It played around 2000 screens DTS internationally. SDDS was giving away the gear to theatre owners as well.

Theatre adoption in the US in 1992 was slow, but, it reached around 150 screens by the end of the year.

Films mixed and released in 5.1 for Dolby Digital release in 1992 were,

Batman Returns
Honey I Blew Up The Kid
The Mighty Ducks
Under Siege
Aladdin
Bram Stoker's Dracula
Malcolm X
The Bodyguard
Pure Country
Toys

There were a few 70mm 6-Track 5.1 releases in 92, most notable being Alien 3.

Wide theatrical release for Drac was Dolby Stereo but Dolby Digital prints and some 70mm and DS 6-ch runs were done. Criterion did new mixdowns from mag elements for their LD. 5.1s on all releases are derived from 6-ch mag elements with some adjustments here and there between each release.

[Markgway]

We're off to a great start. Big thanks to Space Black Knight for all the info.

Please check that I've entered the details correctly.

Could you confirm the following for me?

1. POINT BREAK: Shout/Icon UHD: 2.0 = original stereo mix
2. The Arrow tracks for ROBOCOP and director's cut
3. Eagle UHD 5.1 for TOTAL RECALL
4. THE TOWERING INFERNO: Fox BD's 2.0 and 4.0 mixes.

[Markgway]

LAST of the MOHICANS: If the VIA VISION (AU) BD has an original 5.1 track from the 70mm print, does this also apply to the French (ESC) BD, which also contains the theatrical cut? And what about the Warner DVDs?

ALIEN: Are the 2.0 tracks on the BD and UHD the original mix?

SHINING THROUGH: I'm sure my German BD has both 5.1 (70mm) AND 2.0 tracks. Is the latter the OG stereo mix?

PATRIOT GAMES: That's a bugger about the UHD remix. I assume it would be the same as the DVD and BD tracks. Guess I'll have to rebuy the Blu-ray.

I'm only looking to list titles where only the 70mm prints had a 6-track mix. So that would be mainly titles up until 1992-3.

Did TERMINATOR 2 play in 35mm with a 6-track mix? CDS for example?

Is it worth listing reissued 70mm titles like ROCKY and THE PINK PANTHER because I doubt these can be considered original to begin with?

Honestly no idea how to list the STAR TREK titles.

IMDb lists a 70mm release for CHRISTINE but can't find any further confirmation.

[yellowcakeuf6]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Mohicans is proper channel configuration but the mix has been tampered with via Michael Mann's recutting (Fox DVD and BDs are NOT of the original theatrical cuts). The only modern release with the theatrical cut AND 70mm mix is the Australian Via Vision BD.

As for Alien 3, first we need to cover the first two. Alien and Aliens theatrical cut have 4.1 tracks that are the 70mm 4.2 mag. Alien 1999 DVD 5.1 has 70mm Six-Track Dolby Stereo, while the 5.1 on 2003 DVD and up is a new mix with mixing differences carried over from Directors Cut. Aliens 5.1 theatrical is also 70mm Dolby Stereo, while UHD and new BD 5.1 is a folddown of the Atmos upmix that adds heavy reverb to certain sequences.

Alien 3 1999 DVD 5.1 has a direct transfer of the 70mm DS mix. 2003 DVD on up is a new transfer from mag elements and stems, has small tweaks carried over from extended edition cut.

Shining Through 5.1 is def 70mm 4.2 mag untouched, intense range and LFE.

Patriot Games 5.1 is derived from master elements used to create Dolby Stereo six-channel, SDDS, ect. 5.1 on 4k is a folddown of Atmos, which was half upmix and half remix from stems and soundtrack score.

Platoon is kinda confusing. 1997 Live DVD has 5.1 track that resembles the 70mm 4.2, 2.0 sounds like direct Dolby Stereo tape transfer. 1998 Polygram DVD is a different master and that 5.1 is a little different, lower LFE and real stereo rears plus opening fanfare on the Orion logo (almost every other release has that silent). This could be an alternate Dolby Stereo six-channel mix, as a JPN LD uses a very similar folddown of it and a set of modern releases later down utilizes the same mix.

5.1 on the MGM DVDs on up are a new transfer from master mag elements with a few SFX additions and changes during the big sequences; 2.0 sounds like the same DS mix. 4.0 on the MGM BD is different than the Dolby Stereo 2.0, likely to be the 4.2 without LFE encoded for whatever reason.

Shout BD and UHD have 5.1 that sounds almost exact to the DS 6-channel, as it has Orion jingle and none of the SFX additions during the shootout with Dafoe's character.

Rocky had 70mm reissue runs outside the US and the 5.1s are supposedly based off that. Mono is the original mix, but most releases use a new mixdown from mono M/D/E stems and have varying SFX and cue placements.

Rocky II had 70mm DS 6-channel runs outside the US and a 2 day only US 70mm run in 1981. 5.1 follows the DS 6-ch mix with some small differences, same goes for the DS 2.0 which is also a fresh minting from master elements. Some releases have these tracks in wrong pitch.

Rocky III and IV 5.1 are mostly ports of 70mm DS 6-ch. Rocky V 5.1 seems to be LRCS mag transfer with aggressive LFE and dynamic stereo rears; may have had 70mm/DS 6-ch runs overseas in which this mix is derived from.

Lets not forget T2, which has several different mixes. Some 2.0 mixes are the Dolby Stereo LRCS, others a folddown of the 4.2 mag. Theatrical 5.1 on 1997 Live DVD and a JPN BD are a direct transfer from master mag element used to create DS 6-ch and CDS mix. 5.1 starting from the Extreme Edt DVD is also based on 6-ch master element, but has several volume and SFX impact changes heralded by sound designer Gary Rydstrom. This mix is coined "near field" that was designed and adjusted for home theater systems. Atmos on UHD/ 2018 BD is expanded remix of 5.1 near field with several other additions and changes.

The Star Trek theatrical cuts on BD and UHD have 6-channel mag transfers with small differences and fixes between each film. Some releases of Star Trek: TMP and Wrath of Kahn theatrical have 5.1s that carry over some changes and additions made for the alternate cuts. Initial DVDs seem to be the least tampered with audio wise.

There are some movies where the release versions were mono or just Dolby Stereo, but later became 5.1 only and don't exhibit characteristics of a modern remix. Bobby Deerfield supposedly had 70mm runs overseas which explains the existence of it's 5.1 that has traits of a 4.2 mag. Christine is another that reportedly had 70mm outside the US and some 5.1 tracks are based off it and others a new mix from master elements.

One in this category is Bram Stoker's Dracula. Brett. C has this to say about it:



Wide theatrical release for Drac was Dolby Stereo but Dolby Digital prints and some 70mm and DS 6-ch runs were done. Criterion did new mixdowns from mag elements for their LD. 5.1s on all releases are derived from 6-ch mag elements with some adjustments here and there between each release.

Great information! I will be giving all I wasn't aware of a new listen.

[yellowcakeuf6]

Originally Posted by Markgway

LAST of the MOHICANS: If the VIA VISION (AU) BD has an original 5.1 track from the 70mm print, does this also apply to the French (ESC) BD, which also contains the theatrical cut? And what about the Warner DVDs?

ALIEN: Are the 2.0 tracks on the BD and UHD the original mix?

SHINING THROUGH: I'm sure my German BD has both 5.1 (70mm) AND 2.0 tracks. Is the latter the OG stereo mix?

PATRIOT GAMES: That's a bugger about the UHD remix. I assume it would be the same as the DVD and BD tracks. Guess I'll have to rebuy the Blu-ray.

I'm only looking to list titles where only the 70mm prints had a 6-track mix. So that would be mainly titles up until 1992-3.

Did TERMINATOR 2 play in 35mm with a 6-track mix? CDS for example?

Is it worth listing reissued 70mm titles like ROCKY and THE PINK PANTHER because I doubt these can be considered original to begin with?

Honestly no idea how to list the STAR TREK titles.

IMDb lists a 70mm release for CHRISTINE but can't find any further confirmation.

The Total Recall Artisan DVD has so much more LFE output than any other release of that film I've heard, almost reminiscent of Sensurround. Not quite as much bass as the DTS DVD of The Haunting (1999), which is one of the most intense (and subwoofer chuffing) LFE tracks I've ever heard.

[nickg]

thanks for this i have been wanting this thread.

TIL rocky had a 6 track re release thats pretty sweet!

[nickg]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Did TERMINATOR 2 play in 35mm with a 6-track mix? CDS for example?

Is it worth listing reissued 70mm titles like ROCKY and THE PINK PANTHER because I doubt these can be considered original to begin with?

t2 did indeed have 35mm showings with the cds track, I have seen pictures of the film before.

and Id say rocky and pink panther should be listed, it was still theatrical runs not a remix done for cheap home stuff. like how starwars films were in 4.0 dolby stereo before they were in 4.1 60 track 70mm but both in theaters

[side__on]

Great info,thanks all.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by Markgway

We're off to a great start. Big thanks to Space Black Knight for all the info.

Please check that I've entered the details correctly.

Could you confirm the following for me?

1. POINT BREAK: Shout/Icon UHD: 2.0 = original stereo mix
2. The Arrow tracks for ROBOCOP and director's cut
3. Eagle UHD 5.1 for TOTAL RECALL
4. THE TOWERING INFERNO: Fox BD's 2.0 and 4.0 mixes.

LAST of the MOHICANS: If the VIA VISION (AU) BD has an original 5.1 track from the 70mm print, does this also apply to the French (ESC) BD, which also contains the theatrical cut? And what about the Warner DVDs?

ALIEN: Are the 2.0 tracks on the BD and UHD the original mix?

SHINING THROUGH: I'm sure my German BD has both 5.1 (70mm) AND 2.0 tracks. Is the latter the OG stereo mix?

PATRIOT GAMES: That's a bugger about the UHD remix. I assume it would be the same as the DVD and BD tracks. Guess I'll have to rebuy the Blu-ray.

IMDb lists a 70mm release for CHRISTINE but can't find any further confirmation.

1. Dolby Stereo LRCS matrix

2. Arrow Robocop BD and UHD both cuts - 5.1= MGM remix, 4.0= 4.2 70mm sans LFE*, 2.0= Dolby Stereo LRCS matrix*. *Directors cut 4.0 and 2.0 tracks have folddown remix audio for certain sections.

3. 5.1 is allegedly Atmos folddown.

4. 4.0 and 2.0 are 4.2 sans LFE for some odd reason. Fox and MGM did this a lot with extra mixes.

MOHICANS French BD theatrical is the same master and it's 5.1 should be the same barring bitrate encode differences. Warner R2/4/6 DVDs the same master and 5.1 mixes.

ALIEN and Aliens 2.0 tracks are Dolby Stereo LRCS matrix. UHDs may have had additional cleanup like hiss and pop removal.

SHINING THROUGH DE Blu is same master as the Fox DVD but in native HD, EN 5.1 audio is the same mix but lossless, and whatever 2.0 tracks on there are likely DS matrix tape transfers, considering it wasn't a popular film to get modernized revisions.

S'more to add:

Rollerball (1975) - 5.1 on all DVD/BD/UHD releases is 70mm 4.2 with minor tweaks, single LFE, and stereotized rears. 2.0 track is folddown of the LRCS mag and TT release with 1.0 track is the general release mono mix.

Home Alone (1990) was not released 70mm, but the 5.1 on UHD only is the original stereo mix presented in discrete LRCS form and duped mono rear. 5.1 on FF DVD on up is a remix, even the 2020 remastered BD. 2.0 on all releases up to the 2015 BD is a direct transfer from the DS matrix. 2.0 on 2015 BD and up have a new transfer from LRCS mag element and sounds similar to 5.1 on UHD.

Home Alone 2 was not released 70mm ether, but a rumor suggests its 5.1 track is derived from LRCS mag stems or perhaps an unreleased 6-channel mix, since its rears are mono and sports very little LFE. 2.0 track is DS matrix tape transfer.

Spaceballs 5.1 on all releases is 70mm DS 6-channel but there seems to be two mix versions made. Version A has some SFX/cue/line placement differences and different song at the Diner scene, released first in the US on 70mm and 35mm DS matrix; Kino BD/UHD and MGM 4k digital uses this mix on 5.1 and 2.0 audio with Van Halen song from mix B. Version B is the mix we're all familiar with and was supposedly released outside NA, has extra lines when Helmet captures Vespa and the Van Halen song in diner; All home video releases up to Kino BD uses this mix in 6-ch and DS matrix.

King Kong (1976) - Mono on general release prints, but some overseas runs had 4-channel mag and even rarer 70mm ones in the UK and Japan had 4.2 mag. Paramount DVD on up has the latter mix (with duped stereo rears) in a 5.1 container while Shout BD and Paramount UHD also contain the mono mix.

Tron (1982) - 1999 DVD 5.1 has 70mm 4.2 mix (duped mono rear and single LFE) from untouched mag transfer. 5.1 on 2003 DVD on up as well as BD is Dolby Stereo six-track (with stereo rears). LFE here is mega loud and very deep compared to 1999 DVD, as it looks like this 5.1 mix combined all the LFEs from 4.2 and DS6.

The Running Man starting from Artisan SE DVD to Lionsgate BD has 7.1/6.1 ES/5.1 EX tracks created from upmixed and tweaked 6-ch mag. Paramount 4k digital/UHD and Capelight UHD have 5.1 that is least tampered with and resembles 70mm DS 6-ch with deep LFE. 2.0 tracks are Dolby Stereo matrix.

Almost positive The Rocketeer 5.1 is original untouched 6-ch mag transfer, which also had a limited CDS run. Same goes for Dick Tracy.

You Only Live Twice had 70mm six-track reissue runs in Japan, but its likely this element was gone as PP and Great Escapes 70mm audio were and all release up to the UE DVD were mono only. The 5.1 on UE DVD/BD/4k WEB resembles a ground up remix (from M/D/E stems and stereo score) as has overpowering score over important moments and obvious modern sounding stuff like doors closing and rocks crumbling not in the mono.

Thunderball def had 70mm Six-track in the UK and elsewhere but all general release prints were mono. 1999 SE DVD 5.1 contains mostly untampered 70mm mix; UE DVD/BD/WEB 4k have revised this mix with different recordings of the OST and various added/changed SFX. Mono mix is on most releases to varying degrees of NR.

Man With The Golden Gun had a premiere run with 4-channel mag and six-track 70mm in Japan, but general release was mono. 1999 SE and UE DVD reportedly have 2.0 surround track a folddown of the LRCS mag. Mono is on some DVDs and the BD. 5.1 is a half mag transfer half remix with tons of added/swapped stuff like couple of the others.

Spy Who Loved Me was Dolby Stereo but 4-ch mag and 70mm six-track were made for certain markets. 2.0 track is likely DS matrix and SE DVD 5.1 is untouched 6-ch mix. Any 5.1 after that is a tamper job with added stuff. See first post where stereo 007s have some untouched six track audio and others revised to a degree.

BTW, Patriot Games Atmos up/remix is AFAIK only on digital 4k copies. Strangely left off the UHD despite 9000 other dub tracks, but the UHD 5.1 is still a downfold of that as everything is much louder with added SFX in certain sequences than prior 5.1.

[Markgway]

ROBOCOP: if the Arrow 2.0 + 4.0 dir's cut tracks are part-remixed, does that apply to ALL editions of the DC (i.e. the 2007 MGM BD, Capelight UHD), or only Arrow?

SPACEBALLS: As the Kino edition tracks derive from the original US release mix, I'll remove it from the OG mixes not on UHD thread.

HOME ALONE: I'll add info to the UHD thread about it being 4-track stereo in 5.1 container.

THE RUNNING MAN: Capelight doesn't have a 5.1 track, it's 7.1. Also reported that its 2.0 track is a downmix. Bullshit?

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by Markgway

ROBOCOP: if the Arrow 2.0 + 4.0 dir's cut tracks are part-remixed, does that apply to ALL editions of the DC (i.e. the 2007 MGM BD, Capelight UHD), or only Arrow?

SPACEBALLS: As the Kino edition tracks derive from the original US release mix, I'll remove it from the OG mixes not on UHD thread.

HOME ALONE: I'll add info to the UHD thread about it being 4-track stereo in 5.1 container.

THE RUNNING MAN: Capelight doesn't have a 5.1 track, it's 7.1. Also reported that its 2.0 track is a downmix. Bullshit?

Robocop - yes all editions as they use the same audio source.

Running Man, I forgot the Capelight had 7.1 for the Eng track as I saw another 5.1 track but that was the German one. That 7.1 is likely a tweaked port of the LG track, but I'm pretty sure the 2.0 is not exactly a 7.1 downmix but a new folddown of the 6-channel mag elements that Paramount likely prepared.

On stereo films that had Dolby Stereo matrix and multichannel mag, the former was usually a mixdown from the 6-track magnetic master. The only differences between a Dolby Stereo matrix and multichannel mag were down to dynamic range and whatever else it picked up during the analog mastering stages (that mainly being crosstalk channel bleed from center dialog when there shouldn't be, see Flash Gordon and Nothing But Trouble). Sometimes entirely different mixes were made between DS matrix and multichannel mag, Supes '78 being one notable example, but it was not the norm due to costs and time constraints.

Also one thing to note, Back to the Future Trilogy had Dolby Stereo matrix and DS 6-channel plus 70mm 4.2. All releases starting from the DVD only have remixed 5.1 audio that makes various changes to SFX and lines, most noticeable in parts I and II. Only the initial home video releases (and some WEB versions played through device with stereo output and stereo speakers) have the DS matrix, while some of the JPN letterbox LDs reportedly have a 2.0 folddown of the 70mm 4.2. The pricey Hi-Vision JPN releases are also said to have discrete 4.0 Dolby Surround LRCS (4.2 w/o LFE?).

Another one on the top of my head is E.T theatrical. DS matrix is on most video releases excluding the initial DVD releases, which contain remixed 5.1/6.1 ES audio with changes (overdubbed terrorists line and 2002 CG E.T's hopping for example) carried over from the 20th Anniversary version. 2012 BD has 7.1 that is similar to the DVD remix, but undoes the "terrorist" redub yet E.T still has hopping sounds when he walks! New BD and UHD have DTS: X audio that is a all new transfer from 6-channel mag elements, but upmixed and expanded with sounds filtered and objected plus heavy reverb at certain points. Untouched 4.2 and DS 6-channel are MIA on every release.

[yellowcakeuf6]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

ALIEN and Aliens 2.0 tracks are Dolby Stereo LRCS matrix. UHDs may have had additional cleanup like hiss and pop removal.

The Alien Anthology Blu-ray "Alien" 2-track is a bad matrix track with dialogue in the surrounds, while the "Aliens" 2-track plays correctly. I've run them through both a consumer Dolby Pro Logic decoder and a Dolby CP200.

[Eidolon]

Impressed with some of the knowledge to be found on this thread.
Remixes of original audio are a real bug bear of mine, along with their rarely ever being any info on disc packaging to state if things have been tampered with.

Just out of curiosity, what the situation regarding the original Ghostbusters? As far as I understand it, it had Dolby Stereo and 70mm options theatrically, depending on the cinema in question.

I have the collectors edition dvd, two BDs with a 5.1 mix, and the later steelbook set that restores the theatrical Dolby Stereo audio for the first time.

There is a noticeable difference with the 5.1 mix on the dvd compared to the ones on the first two BDs I mentioned. Some of the audio moves around differently, the levels sometimes seem a little different (volume dynamics seem to be greater on the BDs), and the voices seem slightly muffled on the BDs compared to the dvd.
They're clearly different mixes, and I'm curious as to why. Maybe one was up mixed from the DS track, the other from the 70mm?

[Eidolon]

Originally Posted by yellowcakeuf6

The Alien Anthology Blu-ray "Alien" 2-track is a bad matrix track with dialogue in the surrounds, while the "Aliens" 2-track plays correctly. I've run them through both a consumer Dolby Pro Logic decoder and a Dolby CP200.

That's the one I think I have, but haven't watched it yet. Which is the best audio option to choose when watching then? Thanks.

[defwarrior4000]

Streets of Fire's 4.0 track is the 70mm track on the 4K. Ditto for The Last Starfighter.

The boutique (US Shout/UK Arrow) releases of The Thing on Blu-ray have a 4.0 mix. Releases with 2.0 tracks are DS, although releases from around 1985-1996 have some music alterations. The 5.1 remix was created for the DVD and I think the Signature laserdisc as well. The UHD only has a DTS X remix.

[yellowcakeuf6]

Originally Posted by Eidolon

That's the one I think I have, but haven't watched it yet. Which is the best audio option to choose when watching then? Thanks.

I'm not sure about the 5.1 track being the 70mm mix. I recall reading that the 70mm track had a line of dialogue that was on Laserdisc but not in the Anthology (BD) set version of Alien. Someone with more info please chime in.
I usually go with the 4.1 Dolby Digital, just turn it up a bit more. I'm not sure what the Dolby upmixer does with tracks like this. I use an excellent older Dolby Digital/Pro Logic separate consumer decoder, or the Dolby DP562, for these tracks.