Questionable Bias from highdefdigest.

[BTBuck1]

I feal if your reviewing something, and thats what you do for a living you should be as unbiased as possible. Now if i go to a website that says HDDVD review, and they are comparing HDDVD's to Blu Ray, i kind of expect it. I also expect redsox games to be biased if broadcast on NESN, but i expect unbiased if i am watching it on ESPN...catch my drift?

okay...so originally I thought, hey HiDefDigest...this looks like a cool site, how cool they review just about every BR & HDDVD that comes out. But lately I see a disturbing trend from their reviews. First, the Training day review is absurd. Not only is it written to make you feel like Training day looks horrible, it is in fact false. They claim the image is cropped but it has already been dismissed that the image is not cropped and it is something to do with either their particular player or their set. It has been tested side by side by another website (JTK, help me out here whats the guys name?) anyways..it is not true. Training day on Blu-Ray looks phenomenal on HDDVD, I will give it that. But it also looks fantastic on Blu Ray. Yes, the soundtrack losing DD+ is a loss, one i am sad to see...but the reviewer words things so strongly that I would feel sorry for someone who wanted Training Day on BR and changed their mind after reading this, because they would be missing out on a great High Def experience (that btw has one of the best legacy DD soundtracks i've heard).

It just bothers me that Blu Ray has improved so much in so little time, yet they get no credit for it, only because people only see numbers, and not whats on the screen. SWAT review goes up today and he gives it shining reviews in one paragraph:

The print is very clean and sparkly, if a bit processed for my taste. There is a slight amount of film grain present, but the transfer has been so digitally tweaked it has that smoothed-out, impossibly sleek surface that film could never replicate. Colors are boosted and vibrant but for the most part not oversaturated. Fleshtones are also accurate, with skin boasting that perfect shade of orange that only exists in the movies. Overall, sharpness and contrast are quite good, though some scenes are intentionally blown out, which can slightly obscure detail. Conversely, I thought some interiors were a smidgen too dark for my taste. However, more often than not this transfer looks quite three-dimensional -- even startling at times.

Then follows up with this on the next one:

Alas, some of the inconsistency that has so far marred Sony's Blu-ray releases is present with 'S.W.A.T.' For example, I noticed slight noise that hampered shadow delineation in select shots, as well as softness in degrees that varied from shot to shot, even in the same scene. However, this is much less of a problem here than on Sony's earlier batches of Blu-ray titles. I know it is easy to blame the inconsistent quality of many of these early Blu-ray titles on the use of the MPEG2 compression codec instead of the less space-hungry VC1, or the rumored faulty noise reduction chip in the Samsung first-generation Blu-ray player currently be used to review titles. Still, in real-world conditions and regardless of fault, 'S.W.A.T.' does look good, however imperfect

Its as if someone took over for the original reviewer who didn't like blu-ray or we have some Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde action going here.

So I've started to take these reviewers "reviews" with a grain of salt. Their eyes are no better than mine (maybe their equipment is) But I know good when I see it. Critics have annoyed me for some time, especially when they pass off their opinions as fact I.E. "'S.W.A.T.' is a big, dumb, loud action movie" well maybe to you, I personally enjoyed this and many of the other remakes that have been comming out in years/months past. I want to see cool new movies like superman returns that blow the older ones out of the water with todays filmmaking techniques.

Anyways, thats my rant...to those who are on the BR bandwagon (with me) just watch out, these guys over at Highdefdigest are HDDVD fanboi's it's blatently obvious. If they weren't it wouldn't be so difficult for them to give credit where it's due without following up with a bunch of careful wording to degrade it's accomplishments and trick you into thinking excellent looking films, look bad (excluding HOFD, Hitch & TFE ofcourse).

look I don't expect things to be all roses and prairies but come on, things are alot better than these guys give credit for, and I'd be willing to bet they won't renig on these reviews or even second look them when the NR-less player or another player ends up in their hands. If they do, and other sites claim improvement and they don't then it will just prove my point further. Sound & vision magazine has already stated signifigant improvement with several titles, so we'll just have to wait n see.

[Applefiend]

I'd be interested to hear if Robocop really looks as bad as they say.

Key piece of 80s kitch that.

[BTBuck1]

I think the master used in some of these films is what is in question, not the mpeg2 codec.

Also, i feal that the soft,sharp,soft from scene to scene is the samsungs Noise reduction messing with things.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Applefiend

I'd be interested to hear if Robocop really looks as bad as they say.

Key piece of 80s kitch that.

^^ You can't miss that if you try.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=23110

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/robocop.html





There's only so many fanboyisms and apologisms people can come up with before it just gets downright maddening, past the point of even being laughed at.

This is crap. Pure and simple. Another good movie on a bad disc and it just happens to be the bad luck of the draw that it's yet another Blu-Ray disc.

The reviews coming out for that disc, thus far, are downright abysmal. A lot of the feedback on varying forums...abysmal.


I don't care what format it is...don't bother releasing something in HD if you don't at least REMASTER the original source!

Something like Robocop was overdue for a cleanup and face lift anyways.

Releasing it in this form was yet another mistake.

After that, you can nitpick on the whole codec and compression issue, which it sounds like didn't help this thing out either...and you're left with another turd.

Blu-Ray doesn't need any more discs like these!

It doesn't matter how awesome the hardware is or the support or any of the rest of it if discs like these are the end results.

Discs like these are nothing more than easy favors for a boost to HD-DVD.


I don't care if ALL of my favorite movies come out on Blu-Ray in time for Christmas: If they end up looking like this, it's called: No sale. It's a complete waste. I wouldn't throw two cents at a disc that looks like this.

I don't care what the format is called, how much it costs, who's putting it out...No sale.

[Zvi]

Agree. Very disappointing At some point I thought DL BRs would solve the problems wirh BR movies, but transfers like this...
I don't understand how do they let things like this happen, They don't care about winning or their product at all? Considering consumers stupid and not being able to tell the difference? Or they have saboteurs from HD camp @ work

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Agree. Very disappointing At some point I thought DL BRs would solve the problems wirh BR movies, but transfers like this...
I don't understand how do they let things like this happen, They don't care about winning or their product at all? Considering consumers stupid and not being able to tell the difference? Or they have saboteurs from HD camp @ work

I'd honestly implore everyone that gives two craps about quality to do two things at the same time:

1.) Phone calls, emails, letters, you name it. An organized writing campaign would be ideal, but it's time to start making noise.

2.) Vote with your wallet. Don't buy shi**y discs like these.

[Longshot]

Brian,

The point is BD has no room for error. HD DVD has set the bar very high with regards to picture quality. I still want to jump on the BD train but as each new release comes out I get more discouraged. There is simply no more excuses the BD camp can give at this point IMO. What good will superior players be if the discs look like sh*t?

I really hope Sony gets pummeled at CEDIA.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Longshot

Brian,

The point is BD has no room for error. HD DVD has set the bar very high with regards to picture quality. I still want to jump on the BD train but as each new release comes out I get more discouraged. There is simply no more excuses the BD camp can give at this point IMO. What good will superior players be if the discs look like sh*t?

I really hope Sony gets pummeled at CEDIA.

I do, too.

I can't believe I'm even going to write this, but I'm starting to have genuine doubts about buying into Blu-Ray AT ALL this year whatsoever.

This sh*t better get turned around RIGHT the hell quick.

No excuses!

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by JTK

There's only so many fanboyisms and apologisms people can come up with before it just gets downright maddening, past the point of even being laughed at.

This is crap. Pure and simple. Another good movie on a bad disc and it just happens to be the bad luck of the draw that it's yet another Blu-Ray disc.

The reviews coming out for that disc, thus far, are downright abysmal. A lot of the feedback on varying forums...abysmal.


I don't care what format it is...don't bother releasing something in HD if you don't at least REMASTER the original source!

Something like Robocop was overdue for a cleanup and face lift anyways.

Releasing it in this form was yet another mistake.

After that, you can nitpick on the whole codec and compression issue, which it sounds like didn't help this thing out either...and you're left with another turd.

Blu-Ray doesn't need any more discs like these!

It doesn't matter how awesome the hardware is or the support or any of the rest of it if discs like these are the end results.

Discs like these are nothing more than easy favors for a boost to HD-DVD.


I don't care if ALL of my favorite movies come out on Blu-Ray in time for Christmas: If they end up looking like this, it's called: No sale. It's a complete waste. I wouldn't throw two cents at a disc that looks like this.

I don't care what the format is called, how much it costs, who's putting it out...No sale.

Generally I don't quote entire posts...but in this case i had to. Because initially reading it, i was thinking...well maybe it's film grain...the source material could be bad...etc.

But as you went on, you brought up my favorite points. Why would you release it in HD and not remaster it? And Who cares what codec is used so long as it looks GREAT!!!!

alot of nonsense is being thrown around about single layer this, bit rate that...codec this. But the truth is, The source material is more at fault with most of these films than the codec, the bit rate or the storage space.

So So True...that the last thing Blu Ray needs is another turd in the lineup. Especially when HDDVD has 35+ good conversions and only a handful of turds. Blu Ray seems to be the opposite, only a handful of Great Conversions and a bunch of lackluster efforts. I sure hope things get better. I have noticed improvement of transfers of late, but I find it unfair now that it has to be at the compromise of losing out on things the "Lesser-spec" HDDVD gets included, such as DD+ on training day.

I'm happy with what i've bought and this is okay to me now...but once i get my player and i'm a good 6 months into this, Blu Ray had better start living up to promises. Should HDDVD come out with a player I actually like, and Blu Ray doesn't tighten up their Quality Assurance...I may be inclined to sell out and start supporting both and make myself the winner along side mr. James T. Kirk!

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Generally I don't quote entire posts...but in this case i had to. Because initially reading it, i was thinking...well maybe it's film grain...the source material could be bad...etc.

But as you went on, you brought up my favorite points. Why would you release it in HD and not remaster it? And Who cares what codec is used so long as it looks GREAT!!!!

alot of nonsense is being thrown around about single layer this, bit rate that...codec this. But the truth is, The source material is more at fault with most of these films than the codec, the bit rate or the storage space.

Agreed.

Now there's no way to know this one way or another since the original source is so obviously piss poor to begin with.

There are some compression issues evident, but who knows if that's the MPEG2/BD25 at fault or not? You're already DOA on the source material anyways. The rest of it is gravy after that.

So So True...that the last thing Blu Ray needs is another turd in the lineup. Especially when HDDVD has 35+ good conversions and only a handful of turds.

That's where this thing makes you itch.

How is HD-DVD doing so well, by proportions?

Once you start really dissecting that objectively...you start to come up with some answers that leave you frustrated and unsettled.

We're back to: The BDA as a whole, with the kind of power, money, resource, etc. etc. and the potential of what the BD tech is SUPPOSED to be...has ZERO excuses for this kind of crap.

Blu Ray seems to be the opposite, only a handful of Great Conversions and a bunch of lackluster efforts. I sure hope things get better. I have noticed improvement of transfers of late, but I find it unfair now that it has to be at the compromise of losing out on things the "Lesser-spec" HDDVD gets included, such as DD+ on training day.

There ya go! Now you're starting to get it, huh?

It's pretty stupid isn't it? That BD Training Day shouldn't be missing a DAMNED thing, right?


Good Brian! I hope you start getting annoyed and pissed off like the rest of us. It's about time!

EVERY person that's bought into BD early should be getting pissed off by now and ready to take action and make noise.

DO IT!

I'm happy with what i've bought and this is okay to me now...but once i get my player and i'm a good 6 months into this, Blu Ray had better start living up to promises. Should HDDVD come out with a player I actually like, and Blu Ray doesn't tighten up their Quality Assurance...I may be inclined to sell out and start supporting both and make myself the winner along side mr. James T. Kirk!

There ya go.

How do you earn loyalty? Make promises and deliver on them. Blu-Ray simply has not done that yet.

In contrast, HD-DVD was never given a chance in hell by any of us, including me. They came out, chugged along, slipped under the radar, and they just keep putting out decent hardware and great software and...look at where things are at today.


If this trend continues for very much longer, this is how you can see certain support wane in the ranks of studios and CE companies.

Mark my words.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by Longshot

Brian,

The point is BD has no room for error. HD DVD has set the bar very high with regards to picture quality. I still want to jump on the BD train but as each new release comes out I get more discouraged. There is simply no more excuses the BD camp can give at this point IMO. What good will superior players be if the discs look like sh*t?

I really hope Sony gets pummeled at CEDIA.

Very good points, it's so unfair that the Blu-Ray hardware kicks ass, and the HDDVD software does. The software is so much easier a fix (just use VC-1 or DL) and use good source material dammit!!!!! or leave it on DVD until you can. I've had a crappy copy of roboflop in my collection since 1999, i don't need another one in 2006!

Originally Posted by JTK

2.) Vote with your wallet. Don't buy shi**y discs like these.

Originally i was planning on buying this. even if it was only slightly improved over the DVD. I'm starting to think that this is a bad idea. I will probably hold off on blu ray movie purchases unless they receive solid reviews overall, as it will be less to buy later when it's fixed and re-released. Maybe then the double-dippin sons of *****es will just give us "Beyond-HiDef" out the gate!

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Very good points, it's so unfair that the Blu-Ray hardware kicks ass, and the HDDVD software does. The software is so much easier a fix (just use VC-1 or DL) and use good source material dammit!!!!! or leave it on DVD until you can. I've had a crappy copy of roboflop in my collection since 1999, i don't need another one in 2006!

Isn't that the truth?

Although when all is well, HD-DVD hardware deserves the grade of "decent."

But who cares how awesome the hardware is if you can't feed it great material.

It's a joke. There's no way I'm going to buy $1000+ standalone player so I can play sh***y discs like these!

Originally i was planning on buying this. even if it was only slightly improved over the DVD. I'm starting to think that this is a bad idea. I will probably hold off on blu ray movie purchases unless they receive solid reviews overall, as it will be less to buy later when it's fixed and re-released. Maybe then the double-dippin sons of *****es will just give us "Beyond-HiDef" out the gate!

Don't do it!

Start being VERY picky about what discs you buy.

We ALL know that there will be double dipping in the future, and in the case of garbage like this...it can't come soon enough.

[BTBuck1]

Sony & the BDA need to realize a compromise is going to have to be made NOW. I understand mpeg2 can look as good if not better than VC-1. but not in a Bit restricted arena like 25gb SL.

I also understand that it is going to take time to get the 50gb stuff worked out and in mass production for profitability etc.

Hell, Im perfectly content with ALL OF THIS, including the lack of DTSHD & DOLBYTRUHD as PCM lossless as proved to be very good and leave little or no desire for the other codecs.

HOWEVER!!!!

What i'm not okay with is them shortchanging us because they refuse to give in to anything but their set plan even if it is at the expense of giving us lackluster software.

SONY, BDA if your listening...please...hear our cry's!
WE WANT YOU TO WIN!
But dammit give us a reason to support you whole heartedly. Most of us have stuck by you through the B.S. and as mentioned above we understand the growing pains of a new format, but if compromises have to be made, don't expect the consumer to subsidize it, it's not fair to us.

I guess i've really shook the cobwebs out today and can see more clearly what is going on here. I also think (unless sony&the BDA is just that arrogant or dumb) that they read these forums and others, and have to be concerned about the negative press they are receving...if they don't then we'll probably all be buying HDDVD players this time next year and this website will have a cult following where we talk about what could have been.

[JTK]

^^ Agreed 100 percent.

If I didn't know any better, I'd almost think the BDA is TRYING to lose.


It's hard to take monikers like "Beyond high definition!" and the like even remotely seriously when so many of these discs aren't even HD at all, period.

This Robocop disc being the latest example.

Throw in cost of hardware, which is a minimum of a grand to get in the door...and it becomes insulting and infuriating.

I wouldn't even buy a PS3 to play these kinds of discs. Not worth it.

[Longshot]

The thing that really pisses me off about Sony is they know better. Look at some of the breakthrough products they've introduced in the last few years. QUALIA FP, SXRD RPTV, BRAVIA LCD's.

Sony can and has set the bar for quality and performance in many areas. Simply no excuse for this kind of crap. Yes, even though I'm currently a HD DVD supporter I desparately want BD to win. And like others I'm standing on the sideline waiting to open my wallet when these guys can deliver what they promised since 2005.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by Longshot

The thing that really pisses me off about Sony is they know better. Look at some of the breakthrough products they've introduced in the last few years. QUALIA FP, SXRD RPTV, BRAVIA LCD's.

oh the hardware isn't the problem...it's the damn software!

Sony can and has set the bar for quality and performance in many areas. Simply no excuse for this kind of crap. Yes, even though I'm currently a HD DVD supporter I desparately want BD to win. And like others I'm standing on the sideline waiting to open my wallet when these guys can deliver what they promised since 2005.

PSSS...hey Sony...Hey BDA? you there??? ya listening to this^ Come cash in already why don't cha?

[JTK]

^^ You're all getting it. I can't say it any better myself.

[hmurchison]

Let's be honest ...this first crop of discs are just poor.

Someone forgot to tell Sony that if you want to deliver the KO blow you have to make your product as flawless as possible.

I don't think any of us will rule Blu-Ray out but they've cost themselves a lot of 2006 sales right now with the poor media. I guess that doesn't affect me that much because I'm stuck buying in 2007 if I'm lucky but still the PS3 is going to have to have an immediate and substantial impact to right the course of this wayward ship.

[Applefiend]

Oh christ on a bike robocop looks like crap. Thanks guy, I'll quick cancel it on amazon.

Shame, The Terminator on BD is pretty excellent. Every copy of it I've seen on TV or DVD looks like a TV movie, not this version. Was hoping for similar with robocop.

It's like I wrote up in my review, there's a rush to get content out, any content, no matter how bad. Sony are making giant asses of themselves. Warner are saving BD

We got the player, we just don't have any disks to play on it.

[JTK]

The name "Robocrap" is already spreading like wildfire for this turd.