Bill Hunt's initial thoughts on Star Trek HD DVD - Blu-ray Forum

sj001 · 11-14-2007, 10:13 PM

Another example of how HD-DVD's limitations are causing issues with the quality of their releases.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

To make things even more challenging, CBS/Paramount's Star Trek: The Original Series Remastered - Season One showed up yesterday on HD-DVD. Now... I'm a huge and life-long Trek fan, and I'm not one who's opposed to this whole remastering process. So I've been quite looking forwarding to seeing these episodes in high-def on disc. Given all that, I'm not going to rush this review, because I really want to take the time to go through everything in detail. But I do have some quick initial impressions that I wanted to share with you today.

First, the packaging is a lot smaller than I expected. The discs all slip into this little Digipack affair that's not much bigger around than the discs themselves, and that in turn fits into the clear plastic outer case. Smaller is a good thing in my book, in terms of conserving shelf space (especially since this set doesn't replace the previous TOS: Season 1 DVD set). Unfortunately, upon opening the case, the first sight that greeted me was Disc One of the set all scratched to hell, despite the fact that it was secure in the packaging. Thankfully the disc seems to play okay, but I've only had time to watch one episode on it. So far no combo disc problems - fingers crossed. I must say, I still dislike that these are combo discs though, because there's no disc labeling. That means to find the episode you want to watch, you've got to consult the packaging to see which disc it's on. That gets old quick.

When the disc starts up, you take this little animated trip in a turbolift to the transporter room. Once you get to transporter, things are good, but the trip itself is a little repetitive. Thankfully, while the actual menu interface you select options from is a little confusing at first, once you figure it out (it only takes a minute or two) it's pretty great.

Speaking of extras, the only bonus feature I've looked at so far is the starship fly-around option. It's fairly easy to navigate, but there's not a lot of depth to it, so it gets boring rather quickly (although seeing little tiny crewmen through the ship's windows is a nice touch). The Billy Blackburn archive footage is the real treasure here, and it's definitely what I'm most looking forward to checking out, so more on the extras later.

The one last comment I wanted to make however pertains to the video quality. I was expecting to be blown away by remastered TOS on disc, and at times I was. But I was also expecting the quality to be significantly improved from the high-def broadcasts, given how much better the video bit rates should be on disc, and I wasn't so much. I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason why that would be - because it shouldn't be - other than that the video may have been compressed a little too much to fit these episodes on to the HD-30 portion of the combo discs. Each disc seems to have three episodes plus some extras. The first episode I watched was Where No Man Has Gone Before. And I have to say, I was a little surprised to see what looked like compression artifacting during some of the effects shots. I couldn't help wishing that there was a Blu-ray version on BD-50 discs to compare it with. Now... I don't know how much of a difference that would realistically make, because most of the studios that do or have supported both formats seem to use the same video encode for both formats for cost reasons, which means the video bitrates for Blu-ray are always reduced because of the need to accommodate the disc space available on HD-DVD. In any case, forget Blu-ray - I was still really expecting to be dazzled by the HD-DVD image, and I'm not. Don't get me wrong: This set still seems to be quite good overall. A lot of hard work has obviously gone into it, and as I said I want to really take the time to give it a fair shake. But so far, I'm just a little bit underwhelmed. I'm sure that will be spun like crazy in various quarters online, but so be it. It can't be helped, I suppose. Anyway, I'll keep looking and report in more detail later.

maximus2323 · 11-14-2007, 10:14 PM

Wonder how it would transfer to Blu?

CYMBOL · 11-14-2007, 10:20 PM

I like the Digital Bits, and I like Bill Hunt - but this ones going to be hard to defend. It seems less a review of the HD DVD Star Trek series, and more a swipe at the HD DVD format.

If Bill is going to continue to review HD DVDs (which I don't know why he is bothering) - he should leave Blu-ray out of it, as it only comes off as biased.

Just my two cents. My nonsense is free.

sj001 · 11-14-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

I like the Digital Bits, and I like Bill Hunt - but this ones going to be hard to defend. It seems less a review of the HD DVD Star Trek series, and more a swipe at the HD DVD format.

If Bill is going to continue to review HD DVDs (which I don't know why he is bothering) - he should leave Blu-ray out of it, as it only comes off as biased.

Just my two cents. My nonsense is free.

I think though he has already come out and said he is biased. I mean the top of his site indicates "The Digital Bits Picks Blu-ray, click here to see why".

CYMBOL · 11-14-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximus2323

Wonder how it would transfer to Blu?

That's why I'll never bother with HD DVD. Everytime I see a ported tranfer (ie. anything Warner does/Paramount did) I'll always wonder, "I wonder if this could have been just a bit better if they used the extra 20 gigs . . ."

CYMBOL · 11-14-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sj001

I think though he has already come out and said he is biased. I mean the top of his site indicates "The Digital Bits Picks Blu-ray, click here to see why".

That's why a "review" of a HD DVD just doesn't seem worth it. Why bother? He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't - I recommend don't.

The Big Blue · 11-14-2007, 10:27 PM

Video shmideo. How is the phaser?

sj001 · 11-14-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Blue

Video shmideo. How is the phaser?

Forgot about that... I can't believe he didn't review the phaser! lol

MrBogey · 11-14-2007, 11:43 PM

He reviewed it. He commented on the packaging, Then commented on the menu and disc layout. Then finally video quality. Only in closing did he compare it to blu-ray.

Bill likes high quality and like anyone here, when he gets underwhelmed wonders "what could have been".

Esox50 · 11-15-2007, 01:10 AM

Not surprising given what someone who would know told me about the quality of the source around 2Q of this year.

It's unlikely this would look better on Blu Ray...

Neo65 · 11-15-2007, 11:03 AM

For dated materials like this, given the special circumstances of how it was shot, edited and put together originally, you have to wonder how the remastering would go.

There are a few movies where the mastering was done well enough (eg : Face Off) and a difference in prefiltering the master to reduce noise can have a large visible differences, but this can't look good no matter how careful you do this.

I collect all reasonably well made sci fi, and have the DVDs, but I passed on this one precisely because I don't see the point when there is no conceivable way the master provided can yield a good copy. Even if it was on BD, I would skip it. Unless it was 1/2 price or part of box-sets bogo, then it might be worth it for completeness.

bootman · 11-15-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

I like the Digital Bits, and I like Bill Hunt - but this ones going to be hard to defend. It seems less a review of the HD DVD Star Trek series, and more a swipe at the HD DVD format.

If Bill is going to continue to review HD DVDs (which I don't know why he is bothering) - he should leave Blu-ray out of it, as it only comes off as biased.

Just my two cents. My nonsense is free.

He is absolutely biased, but if he honestly thought it was a good product he would say so.
(and some parts of it are according to him)
Read his Matrix review, he did like that.

Now for a transfer to Blu, I'm afraid it will be left as is.
(along with any other HD-DVD only transfers.)
I convinced studios will not spend the extra money to redo the whole thing.
I hope I'm wrong.

yakman · 11-15-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sj001

Forgot about that... I can't believe he didn't review the phaser! lol

Don't you have to buy a dud player with the TOS box set to get the phaser?

Ascended_Saiyan · 11-15-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bootman

He is absolutely biased, but if he honestly thought it was a good product he would say so.
(and some parts of it are according to him)
Read his Matrix review, he did like that.

Now for a transfer to Blu, I'm afraid it will be left as is.
(along with any other HD-DVD only transfers.)
I convinced studios will not spend the extra money to redo the whole thing.
I hope I'm wrong.

I believe, for previously released material, the Blu-ray version would have the same video encode, but have a lossless soundtrack added.

11-14-2007, 10:13 PM	#1
sj001 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Rochester, NY Blu-ray collection:317 DVD collection:17 Trading Score:5	Bill Hunt's initial thoughts on Star Trek HD DVD Another example of how HD-DVD's limitations are causing issues with the quality of their releases. http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents To make things even more challenging, CBS/Paramount's Star Trek: The Original Series Remastered - Season One showed up yesterday on HD-DVD. Now... I'm a huge and life-long Trek fan, and I'm not one who's opposed to this whole remastering process. So I've been quite looking forwarding to seeing these episodes in high-def on disc. Given all that, I'm not going to rush this review, because I really want to take the time to go through everything in detail. But I do have some quick initial impressions that I wanted to share with you today. First, the packaging is a lot smaller than I expected. The discs all slip into this little Digipack affair that's not much bigger around than the discs themselves, and that in turn fits into the clear plastic outer case. Smaller is a good thing in my book, in terms of conserving shelf space (especially since this set doesn't replace the previous TOS: Season 1 DVD set). Unfortunately, upon opening the case, the first sight that greeted me was Disc One of the set all scratched to hell, despite the fact that it was secure in the packaging. Thankfully the disc seems to play okay, but I've only had time to watch one episode on it. So far no combo disc problems - fingers crossed. I must say, I still dislike that these are combo discs though, because there's no disc labeling. That means to find the episode you want to watch, you've got to consult the packaging to see which disc it's on. That gets old quick. When the disc starts up, you take this little animated trip in a turbolift to the transporter room. Once you get to transporter, things are good, but the trip itself is a little repetitive. Thankfully, while the actual menu interface you select options from is a little confusing at first, once you figure it out (it only takes a minute or two) it's pretty great. Speaking of extras, the only bonus feature I've looked at so far is the starship fly-around option. It's fairly easy to navigate, but there's not a lot of depth to it, so it gets boring rather quickly (although seeing little tiny crewmen through the ship's windows is a nice touch). The Billy Blackburn archive footage is the real treasure here, and it's definitely what I'm most looking forward to checking out, so more on the extras later. The one last comment I wanted to make however pertains to the video quality. I was expecting to be blown away by remastered TOS on disc, and at times I was. But I was also expecting the quality to be significantly improved from the high-def broadcasts, given how much better the video bit rates should be on disc, and I wasn't so much. I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason why that would be - because it shouldn't be - other than that the video may have been compressed a little too much to fit these episodes on to the HD-30 portion of the combo discs. Each disc seems to have three episodes plus some extras. The first episode I watched was Where No Man Has Gone Before. And I have to say, I was a little surprised to see what looked like compression artifacting during some of the effects shots. I couldn't help wishing that there was a Blu-ray version on BD-50 discs to compare it with. Now... I don't know how much of a difference that would realistically make, because most of the studios that do or have supported both formats seem to use the same video encode for both formats for cost reasons, which means the video bitrates for Blu-ray are always reduced because of the need to accommodate the disc space available on HD-DVD. In any case, forget Blu-ray - I was still really expecting to be dazzled by the HD-DVD image, and I'm not. Don't get me wrong: This set still seems to be quite good overall. A lot of hard work has obviously gone into it, and as I said I want to really take the time to give it a fair shake. But so far, I'm just a little bit underwhelmed. I'm sure that will be spun like crazy in various quarters online, but so be it. It can't be helped, I suppose. Anyway, I'll keep looking and report in more detail later.

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11-14-2007, 10:14 PM	#2
maximus2323 Active Member Member since:Dec 2006	Wonder how it would transfer to Blu?

11-14-2007, 10:20 PM	#3
CYMBOL Blu-ray Knight Member since:May 2007 Location:I move around a lot. Blu-ray collection:8	I like the Digital Bits, and I like Bill Hunt - but this ones going to be hard to defend. It seems less a review of the HD DVD Star Trek series, and more a swipe at the HD DVD format. If Bill is going to continue to review HD DVDs (which I don't know why he is bothering) - he should leave Blu-ray out of it, as it only comes off as biased. Just my two cents. My nonsense is free.

11-14-2007, 10:27 PM	#7
The Big Blue Blu-ray Guru Member since:Feb 2007 Blu-ray collection:98 Blu-ray reviews:1	Video shmideo. How is the phaser?

11-14-2007, 11:43 PM	#9
MrBogey Expert Member Member since:Jan 2007	He reviewed it. He commented on the packaging, Then commented on the menu and disc layout. Then finally video quality. Only in closing did he compare it to blu-ray. Bill likes high quality and like anyone here, when he gets underwhelmed wonders "what could have been".

11-15-2007, 01:10 AM	#10
Esox50 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 4K collection:416 Blu-ray collection:488	Not surprising given what someone who would know told me about the quality of the source around 2Q of this year. It's unlikely this would look better on Blu Ray...

11-15-2007, 11:03 AM	#11
Neo65 Senior Member Member since:Sep 2007	For dated materials like this, given the special circumstances of how it was shot, edited and put together originally, you have to wonder how the remastering would go. There are a few movies where the mastering was done well enough (eg : Face Off) and a difference in prefiltering the master to reduce noise can have a large visible differences, but this can't look good no matter how careful you do this. I collect all reasonably well made sci fi, and have the DVDs, but I passed on this one precisely because I don't see the point when there is no conceivable way the master provided can yield a good copy. Even if it was on BD, I would skip it. Unless it was 1/2 price or part of box-sets bogo, then it might be worth it for completeness.

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