Blood And Black Lace (1964) (VCI Entertainment) - October 23, 2018

[Akijama]

http://mvdb2b.com/s/BloodAndBlackLac...dCombo/VCI9020

[takeasneededforpain]

Horrible cover art.

I'll gladly stick with my Arrow version.

[MifuneFan]

Should be interesting. I imagine it'll have the proper aspect ratio, but have an inferior transfer.

[Damonstein]

What's the point? Why would anyone get this over the arrow release.

[The Great Owl]

I love my region free Arrow disc, but I'm open-minded about this release until I see reviews. I love this giallo.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by Damonstein

What's the point? Why would anyone get this over the arrow release.

VCI have the potential to correct the framing and present it in the original aspect ratio. I doubt they have the original negative to work with but if it looks at least decent and has the proper aspect ratio/framing then I'll take it over the Arrow any day.

[CineSicko]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

VCI have the potential to correct the framing and present it in the original aspect ratio. I doubt they have the original negative to work with but if it looks at least decent and has the proper aspect ratio/framing then I'll take it over the Arrow any day.

I read somewhere that the previous video versions, in 1.85:1, were showing too much information on either side of the frame, exposing portions of the image that weren't initially intended to be seen, much like the first release of Criterion's DRESSED TO KILL. After I read that, I compared the Arrow BD to the VCI DVDs (both versions) and felt that the Arrow framing looked much more deliberate in terms of composition. Regardless, I'm personally a big fan of the Arrow release, and can't imagine that anyone will ever out-do it in terms of image quality.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by CineSicko

I read somewhere that the previous video versions, in 1.85:1, were showing too much information on either side of the frame, exposing portions of the image that weren't initially intended to be seen, much like the first release of Criterion's DRESSED TO KILL. After I read that, I compared the Arrow BD to the VCI DVDs (both versions) and felt that the Arrow framing looked much more deliberate in terms of composition. Regardless, I'm personally a big fan of the Arrow release, and can't imagine that anyone will ever out-do it in terms of image quality.

This was just conjecture from people who don't have inside knowledge on the film or have handled the materials.

People who have handled the original theatrical prints and worked on a previous release confirmed that the prints were hard-matted to 1.85:1. There is more horizontal image area on the prints than there is on the Arrow Blu-ray, there is no extra information on prints like there is on negatives or interpositives. Everything has to be properly framed/matted for theatrical exhibition.

Tim, Michael Brooke and yourself are probably unaware of the fact that BLOOD AND BLACK LACE was always theatrically shown at 1.85. This has been irrefutably proven by Alain Petit yesterday. In 1993, Alain, Jean-Pierre Jackson and the late Carlos Sylva worked on a LaserDisc release of the movie. I remember perfectly this as I wrote the text for the jacket of the LD.

This LaserDisc was made years before the German Anolis DVD, and before any DVD in fact. It was made from an authentic 35mm print, the same one that was theatrically released, the same one that was broadcast in the 1980s on the Canal Plus channel. The image was strictly respected when numerized for the LD. And this authentic 35mm print is strikingly similar to the later German DVD, excepted that it was a complete print, with the "gory" shots intact. In 1993, it was a little used, had some scratches and the colors were a little faded, but it was 1.85 operture, and the capture that Alain Petit sent me yesterday is the absolute proof, as the LaserDisc was made, I repeat, from an authentic print. So, Michael Brooke and yourself, I'm sorry to tell that, were wrong from the start. With the permission of Alain Petit - who shares entirely my opinion about the wrong decision taken by Arrow - I posted one of the LD captures in the Latarnia forums. You'll find it Under my alias "todmichel". And this is an historical fact, not an "opinion": this film was shot for 1.85 exhibition.

This laserdisc - as I explained - was produced by close friends and it was a 100% accurate copy of an original 35mm print. This print was already old in 1993, with some scratches, but the images were in the 1.85 ratio and showed much more informations on four sides than the Arrow Blu-ray. Moreover, it's almost similar to the German DVD that was made from another print in German (cut, but completed with snippets from another source).

Furthermore, don't forget that France and Germany were co-producers of the movie and Georges de Beauregard (the French co-producer) had access to the same materials than the Italians.

And Jean-Pierre Jackson, the late Carlos Sylva, and Alain Petit were the men who organized all the Bava rétrospectives on French television (Canal Plus channels). Carlos Sylva was regularly travelling in Italy to find the best and most accurate materials. I know that, as I worked for him sporadically. If a print was in the wrong ratio format, its broadcast was postponed (sp) and another print was ordered directly from the Italian laboratories that kept the négatives and prints.

There is zero evidence that indicates the framing on Arrow's disc is correct, and Arrow have badly misframed releases in the past and tried to cover it up and stated it's correct despite the directors confirming it isn't.

If Blood and Black Lace were 1.66:1 then it would have more image information on the top and bottom when compared to a hard-matted 1.85:1 print, not less information at the sides.

[CineSicko]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

This was just conjecture from people who don't have inside knowledge on the film or have handled the materials.

People who have handled the original theatrical prints and worked on a previous release confirmed that the prints were hard-matted to 1.85:1. There is more horizontal image area on the prints than there is on the Arrow Blu-ray, there is no extra information on prints like there is on negatives or interpositives. Everything has to be properly framed/matted for theatrical exhibition.



There is zero evidence that indicates the framing on Arrow's disc is correct, and Arrow have badly misframed releases in the past and tried to cover it up and stated it's correct despite the directors confirming it isn't.

If Blood and Black Lace were 1.66:1 then it would have more image information on the top and bottom when compared to a hard-matted 1.85:1 print, not less information at the sides.

Thank you for clearing that up. I have done an about-face regarding my interest in the forthcoming VCI BD. If it contains more side information in the image, I'll pick it up. It's probably my favorite Bava effort.

[DJR662]

Has there been any info regarding the aspect ratio on the Arrow disc? I love this movie and I think the Arrow release looks great. But if the VCI is anything like it but with the correct AR, then I just might get that as well.

I've never owned a VCI release, what is their track record in general with regards to PQ?

[sb5]

VCI’s DVD release of BaBL was horrible video quality-wise. Like bad public domain release quality. That doesn’t necessarily mean anything in regards to a several years later Blu release, but it doesn’t make me overly optimistic for this.

[bruce holecheck]

I imagine part of their agreement with Arrow was to get access to Arrow's master after the fact, so I would expect the ratio to be identical.

[Shingster]

I would have thought Arrow remastered the full print and then applied the 1.66:1 masking at the end of the whole shebang, so they are probably sitting on all you need to put together an awesome 1.85:1 OAR release of the film. I am also expecting VCI to release this in that ratio.

The question is: How likely is it that VCI are working with the Arrow restoration though? I'm not gonna be holding my breathe on that one tbh!

[MifuneFan]

I would honestly be surprised if Arrow allowed them access to their restoration.

[springjack]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

VCI have the potential to correct the framing and present it in the original aspect ratio. I doubt they have the original negative to work with but if it looks at least decent and has the proper aspect ratio/framing then I'll take it over the Arrow any day.

When the Arrow edition was released I inquired them about the aspect ratio. They told me that their edition has the original intended European theatrical exibition aspect ratio.

[t_rav]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Has there been any info regarding the aspect ratio on the Arrow disc? I love this movie and I think the Arrow release looks great. But if the VCI is anything like it but with the correct AR, then I just might get that as well.

I've never owned a VCI release, what is their track record in general with regards to PQ?

Abysmal. Only exceptions are Dark Night of the Scarecrow and the new, remastered release of City of the Dead. Both of those are great. Proceed with extreme caution.

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by springjack

When the Arrow edition was released I inquired them about the aspect ratio. They told me that their edition has the original intended European theatrical exibition aspect ratio.

As far as Arrow are concerned it's the OAR, but Arrow do not have the best track record when it comes to making Aspect Ratio decisions. I believe it was Tim Lucas who helped them come to the decision of 1.66:1 so that lends a little more expert authority to the decision, but the fact that they didn't cover their arses with a 1.85:1 presentation on a separate disc has to rank for me as probably the single biggest flat-out mistake of their entire discography. (at least with the Hellraiser and Creepshow style fiascos there's room for an honest mistake to have been made, Blood & Black Lace is more a case of distributor overconfidence).

[springjack]

Originally Posted by Shingster

As far as Arrow are concerned it's the OAR, but Arrow do not have the best track record when it comes to making Aspect Ratio decisions. I believe it was Tim Lucas who helped them come to the decision of 1.66:1 so that lends a little more sort of "expert" authority to the decision, but the fact that they didn't cover their arses with a 1.85:1 presentation on a separate disc has to rank for me as probably the single biggest flat-out mistake of their entire discography. (at least with the Hellraiser and Creepshow style fiascos there's room for an honest mistake to have been made, Blood & Black Lace is more a case of distributor overconfidence).

Never heard nothing about Hellraiser... what happened?

[babybreese]

Originally Posted by bruce holecheck

I imagine part of their agreement with Arrow was to get access to Arrow's master after the fact, so I would expect the ratio to be identical.

There is an agreement? Was one required? ( derp, OK, there must be one )

As mentioned, Arrow released the film at the wrong ratio ( thanks Tim Lucas ), so a properly framed Blu is desperately needed.

But VCI?
Jesus, the Blu-ray Gods must be having a good laugh today.

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by springjack

Never heard nothing about Hellraiser... what happened?

Hellraiser III, the Arrow transfer shows too much of the negative, revealing the background stage in a number of scenes.