Noisy whites?

[St.ylo]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this. If it is, a mod can certainly move it elsewhere.

This is pretty much a really beginner-ish question... now, I know that darkness is harder to film. You need proper lighting, proper film stock for it, and a lot of dark scenes tend to be pretty grainy. (This isn't a grain complaint thread; I hate DNR like most here.)

Is extreme lightness/white similarly hard for a camera to capture? I suppose the excessively noisy whites I've seen are mostly on DVD (as opposed to Blu-ray); I assume that would contribute? Why would they be worse at a lower resolution?

Again, this Blu-ray forum may be the wrong place because I've noticed this mostly with standard def content. The worst example by far would be The X-Files. In both season 8 and 9 (on my 51" 1080p Samsung plasma), virtually anywhere that light hits will be swarming with noise. Darkness doesn't suffer the same problem. If someone is half in shadow, half in light (something that often occurs in this series), the side of their face that is lit will be covered in noise. Same with the light coming from flashlights, headlights, etc. Even white paper will be swarming. It's pretty awful.

Is this a fault of filming? Of the mastering? When X-Files comes to Blu-ray, this'll be fixed, I assume?

[jscoggins]

You may want to adjust your TV settings. It sounds like you could benefit from reduced sharpness and reduced gamma/contrast levels.

[St.ylo]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

You may want to adjust your TV settings. It sounds like you could benefit from reduced sharpness and reduced gamma/contrast levels.

My sharpness is at 0%. Same with any noise reduction settings, etc.

Contrast and gamma... well, my gamma's at default, since I can't calibrate it due to not having a meter or whatever. Contrast is at 95-100, which is apparently around what this set should have it at. Everything else was done with the Disney WOW disc (brightness, colour).

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by St.ylo

My sharpness is at 0%. Same with any noise reduction settings, etc.

Contrast and gamma... well, my gamma's at default, since I can't calibrate it due to not having a meter or whatever. Contrast is at 95-100, which is apparently around what this set should have it at. Everything else was done with the Disney WOW disc (brightness, colour).

Try moving your contrast to between 40-60 and see what happens.

[St.ylo]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Try moving your contrast to between 40-60 and see what happens.

Hmm. It makes it a bit less noticeable, I guess. Even moreso if I go even lower. Do you lower your contrast a bit while watching SD stuff?

I popped a disc into my PC to see if it was noticeable here too, and it is.

Here's a quick .gif I made of it. Even at this low resolution at 10fps you can see it (on the pillow, and the light the lamp is generating):




I guess I'll have to live with it. I guess I was just curious as to why it was so bad on these DVDs (although another DVD I watched, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, had it to a degree as well). It just took me aback after watching X-Files mostly on an old CRT TV. :P

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Try moving your contrast to between 40-60 and see what happens.

This may give terrible results depending on what set he has. I own the Samsung F8000 and the ideal contrast for my set is said to be around 90-95. According to my test discs, that's correct. On my set 40-60 would be awful. I suggest the OP gets a copy of the AVS test disc from the AVS forum - it's free and legal, and gives test patterns and a pdf of how to use them to adjust your set. It will help you find the optimal brightness and contrast settings for your set.

EDIT: I see you mention you used the Disney WOW disc which is also excellent. If that disc says you should be set to 90-95 for contrast, I'd go with that number.

[mar3o]

My guess is what you're seeing is compression artifacts or noise that are noticeable in the brighter areas of the image. You say it is mostly seen in SD content so that would be my guess.

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by St.ylo

My sharpness is at 0%. Same with any noise reduction settings, etc.

Contrast and gamma... well, my gamma's at default, since I can't calibrate it due to not having a meter or whatever. Contrast is at 95-100, which is apparently around what this set should have it at. Everything else was done with the Disney WOW disc (brightness, colour).

Even with the proper measure you've taken with disc calibration, I'd still just experiment with adjusting contrast/brightness/colour. It could be that one or more of these settings are just slightly too high and that if you take the time to reduce each of them little by little you might find your sweet spot which might remove the noise in the whites.

Then again maybe nothing can be done about it. I myself have to tolerate with background blocking and artifacts on my HDTV even with Blu-Rays that I know should not be there, and that is despite everything calibrated correctly including sharpening and other advanced features turned off. Although regardless, obviously problems like yours and mine are always going to be worse with SD content.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

Even with the proper measure you've taken with disc calibration, I'd still just experiment with adjusting contrast/brightness/colour. It could be that one or more of these settings are just slightly too high and that if you take the time to reduce each of them little by little you might find your sweet spot which might remove the noise in the whites.

Then again maybe nothing can be done about it. I myself have to tolerate with background blocking and artifacts on my HDTV even with Blu-Rays that I know should not be there, and that is despite everything calibrated correctly including sharpening and other advanced features turned off. Although regardless, obviously problems like yours and mine are always going to be worse with SD content.

This.

Calibration discs are nice, but the problem is that not every movie or TV show is mastered the same way. Indeed, many are not mastered properly.

Just to give you an example. The first Hero DVD from Disney/Miramax was way too bright. I had to lower my TV's brightness in order to replicate the image that I saw in theaters.

[Eibon]

I'd recommend googling AV forums to find the recommended settings for your particular model, then start from there with a calibration disc (I use one on the Pixar discs). The contrast setting can't be set in isolation as the correct setting is affected by the brightness setting. It can be very tricky to get the balance right but the reason it's important to look at the specific model settings is to disable all the other model-specific features not mentioned in the basic calibration tool. These include noise reduction and image manipulation - I forget what Samsung calls their feature. Usually you would turn all these off so you get a raw image from the source disc, then work from there on settings such as colour, brightness and contrast. I've had perfect success with my 42" LCD by disabling image enhancements and using the calibration tools but I've not been able to find a perfect setting for my Mitsubishi HC3 projector but it's pretty close to where I want it.

[CinemaScope]

I'd say it's not film grain, it's video noise, esp. if it's on older DVD's. A properly done Blu-ray shouldn't have that.

[St.ylo]

Originally Posted by Eibon

I'd recommend googling AV forums to find the recommended settings for your particular model, then start from there with a calibration disc (I use one on the Pixar discs). The contrast setting can't be set in isolation as the correct setting is affected by the brightness setting. It can be very tricky to get the balance right but the reason it's important to look at the specific model settings is to disable all the other model-specific features not mentioned in the basic calibration tool. These include noise reduction and image manipulation - I forget what Samsung calls their feature. Usually you would turn all these off so you get a raw image from the source disc, then work from there on settings such as colour, brightness and contrast. I've had perfect success with my 42" LCD by disabling image enhancements and using the calibration tools but I've not been able to find a perfect setting for my Mitsubishi HC3 projector but it's pretty close to where I want it.

Well I was told that there isn't much use putting in others' calibration settings since all panels are different, even if only slightly. That being the explanation for why something like gamma isn't really doable without a meter.

And yeah, I have all the noise reduction stuff whether I'm setting up using WOW or watching.

This is probably as good a place as any to ask: how exactly do you calibrate the contrast with a disc like Disney WOW? It says to set it so the stars are true white or whatever and talks about clipping, but unlike the Brightness where you set it so some stars are visible, etc, I don't know what to watch for. Then again, I've heard a number of others say that this set can go up to 100 without clipping whites, so maybe there's nothing to look for and that'd be an accurate setting? I've just kept it on 95, anyway.