UV Uncertainties (UV vs. iTunes vs. Blu-Ray)

[linuxhack3r]

A little backstory, I have 120+ iTunes HD movies from over the years. However, recently UV has caught my attention and I am nearly convinced that it is the better system.

I have typically been an "Apple Fanboy". Apple TV, AirPort Extreme, iPad's and iPhone's, MacBook's, you get the very expensive and exclusive picture.

However, recently I've been drawn back to Android (I started on that one with the original Motorola Droid). I tried a Nexus 5 when Kit Kat was just released, but I ended up iPhoning it up again because of my extensive movie collection in iTunes.

Yet, UV has some benefits that iTunes does not, notably:

• More "Codes"
• Better Cross-Platform Compatibility
• Potentially Higher Quality (I Think)

However, in reading reviews on the internet (admittedly, a lot of them were several years old), and I wanted them addressed here.

Something I read regarded that you don't own the movies, simply a license to view them. That is typical, but what I was reading hinted that some/all of the licenses would expire after a few years (not the codes, but the UV movie itself would expire from your library after a number of years).

Something I read regarded an extreme loss of privacy (particularly Warner Brothers). I assume it was talking about if you had some software installed on your computer (D2D or something?).

So it is great that you can use VUDU/Flixter/etc to watch your movies. Yet what exactly is "UV"? Apple is one of the biggest companies in the world and is not likely to "go anywhere". Who is behind "UV" and how likely is it to stay around for a very, very long time?

On quality. I've read that VUDU is supposed to offer the best streaming quality, calling it HDX. Yet, I was reading an article on the internet, and it speaks of:

As far as streaming goes, a minimum connection speed of 4.5Mbps is required to watch movies in "HDX," which is Walmart's name for its 1080p resolution content that streams at 24 frames per second. That's Blu-ray quality and the standard frame rate for film-based content. However, not all 1080p HDTVs can display 1080p/24; only those with a 120Hz or higher frame rate are capable. A TV with 1080p 60 fps will not display HDX. Moreover, PC, Mac, and iPad users can only access VUDU at the standard definition rate of 480p.

Surely that isn't true? If it is, please enlighten me. I only have 60hz because I didn't feel like 120hz or higher was worth it at the time (I thought it was a gimmick). Since then, I have retracted that now that I know how TV's work a bit more. But I figure 60hz>24fps, right? Something about a 2:3 pulldown? Also, it does suck that "mobile" devices can only do SD. Has that changed at all?

I currently use the Apple TV. I am considering getting rid of all Apple devices. As such, I'd have probably 50-100 movies I'd have to repurchase UV. That could get expensive, but I feel with D2D and more "codes" I could potentially grow my library quicker and cheaper than if I stick with iTunes in the long term.

It makes since, I use Amazon's Kindle library because it is cross-platform vs. Apple's "iBooks". So why didn't I start UV from the get-go instead of iTunes?

One of my biggest gripes about the whole UV scene is that the interfaces for most apps suck (VUDU on Xbox One, Vudu on iOS, etc). I don't think anyone could argue that iTunes is much more highly polished. Perhaps someday this will change.

Also, something I am concerned about is that I am shooting myself in the foot. I am attempting to "build" my favorite movie library, but then many will be re-released in the form of 4k eventually. I wonder which service offers the best track record of allowing some form of "upgrade structure" vs having to repurchase completely?

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by linuxhack3r

However, in reading reviews on the internet (admittedly, a lot of them were several years old), and I wanted them addressed here.

You might want to check out the UV Demystified FAQ.

Something I read regarded that you don't own the movies, simply a license to view them. That is typical, but what I was reading hinted that some/all of the licenses would expire after a few years (not the codes, but the UV movie itself would expire from your library after a number of years).

Your license is perpetual. Whether the retailer you're trying to view your movie through has negotiated a license for that movie is a different matter. That is, you may have a perpetual UV license for The Matrix. CinemaNow may not have negotiated a license with the studio for that movie, so you'd need to find another retailer to watch it through.

Something I read regarded an extreme loss of privacy (particularly Warner Brothers). I assume it was talking about if you had some software installed on your computer (D2D or something?).

Don't know anything about this.

Also, it does suck that "mobile" devices can only do SD. Has that changed at all?

Some WB content is in HD when using Flixster. I don't think VUDU does HD on mobile devices yet, but they did update their app recently...

Also, something I am concerned about is that I am shooting myself in the foot. I am attempting to "build" my favorite movie library, but then many will be re-released in the form of 4k eventually. I wonder which service offers the best track record of allowing some form of "upgrade structure" vs having to repurchase completely?

No way to know. Apple did a fine job going from 720p to 1080p - no cost. I don't think anyone could even pretend to know what will happen with 4k. It could be a free perk of "ownership" in order to keep consumers purchasing (versus streaming). It could be an additional cost.

[AZBrowncoat]

My family has a mixture of devices, both Android and iOS, and for my particular situation iTunes works "better" as one significant drawback for me (at least until or if CFF is launched) is the inability to download a movie or TV episode ONCE and then utilize that same download across all iOS devices - Apple TV, iPhones, iPads etc.

As of yet that is one functionality that UV lacks that is extremely important to me personally.

[VC2020]

I prefer Apple too & with the shift that's happening I would trust Apple at offering some kind of upgrade option over others (though it's possible no one will).

I do use Kindle for books over iBooks though. iBooks are too expensive and Kindle works with apps & dedicated ebook readers. If I could port my kindle books to iBooks, I would.

[linuxhack3r]

Originally Posted by VC2020

I prefer Apple too & with the shift that's happening I would trust Apple at offering some kind of upgrade option over others (though it's possible no one will).

I do use Kindle for books over iBooks though. iBooks are too expensive and Kindle works with apps & dedicated ebook readers. If I could port my kindle books to iBooks, I would.

But on the flip side if you purchase an SD version you only have the option of repurchasing it at full price of you want HD. That bugs me.

At least VUDU allows you to turn DVD's into HDX. $2.50 per disc if you do at least 10 at a time.

[VC2020]

Originally Posted by linuxhack3r

But on the flip side if you purchase an SD version you only have the option of repurchasing it at full price of you want HD. That bugs me.

At least VUDU allows you to turn DVD's into HDX. $2.50 per disc if you do at least 10 at a time.

Vudu does have D2D but they also have multiple versions of a single movie. SD, HD, HDX, Extras, etc. iTunes offers Extras on any HD movie as they become available and they did shift from 720p to 1080p and some TV shows have a complete my season option to upgrade to HD. I think the reason movies can't be upgraded from standard to HD has to do with studios. But I do still hope that option will be available. It's cool that Disney did that with old blu-ray digital copies.

So far Disney and Apple are doing it best IMO. If Keychest went beyond Disney and included everything available with UV I'd be very happy.

[linuxhack3r]

I am wondering if services like DMA will someday be the norm. Headed by the studios linking different services.

[VC2020]

Originally Posted by linuxhack3r

I am wondering if services like DMA will someday be the norm. Headed by the studios linking different services.

I'd imagine they'd have to be eventually. No one's winning this format war.

[huskerbear]

Unless your already all in, locked into Apple with lots of itunes purchases I don't think it would make any since to go that route to start a new digital collection. There are way to many advantages with UVs growing system to consider anything else IMO.

[VC2020]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

Unless your already all in, locked into Apple with lots of itunes purchases I don't think it would make any since to go that route to start a new digital collection. There are way to many advantages with UVs growing system to consider anything else IMO.

What are some of the advantages other than more copy codes?

[Cranston37]

I have Apple everything but I can't justify buying movies through iTunes over UV. I chose early on that my purchases would be made through the "official" means of UV and DMA only.

Right now there is only one worth service IMO in Vudu, as they are the only place to watch UV and DMA, not to mention D2D. Until every service offers that (including iTunes) I think the digital landscape will really start to sputter as far as growth.

[steve_dave]

There have been no reports of a loss of privacy, just the fact that you have to create a UV account that asks for an email address. Warner supports Flixster and signing up for Flixster is far easier by just linking it to your Facebook (if you have one).

The only problem with UV is that while the file is yours as long as you have your UV library, its still dependent on retailer support as mentioned earlier in this thread. Vudu offers the largest amount of support but even then issues can arise.

You see, you own the right to the film but the actual stream comes from the provider.

If Vudu carries the movie you own but it does not have the UV logo, you won't be able to enjoy it without paying again through Vudu. The same happens for other providers, Target Ticket may not have Bend It Like Beckham in their catalog at all so despite the fact that I own the UV right to the film, I can't play it there. Matter of fact, Vudu is the only provider who has this film. On the flipside, I bought the Silent Night, Deadly Night double bill from Target Ticket because the price was nice. Unfortunately, up until last month, I couldn't watch it in Vudu. Vudu had it but it was not UV compatible through them until last month. Then it showed up in my Vudu library.

That also means you're at the mercy of the provider's digitial library. My Underworld digital copy says Unrated in the description, art, and it said that when I did D2D. Lo and behold, it was the R rated version and unfortunately, I can't do a thing about this. Vudu doesn't carry the unrated version, no provider does.

Now, again, on the opposite end: I try to use Target Ticket now to redeem my UV codes and when I redeemed Anchorman 2, the only choice was the unrated version. So that's what I have in my UV library. The other providers only give you the R rated theatrical version when redeemed through them.

Now, here is the even more evil rub, some providers may have streams with the wrong aspect ratio or SD only. Vudu is notorious for this one, Demolition Man & Underworld are both 1.78:1 cropped. Cinemanow, Target Ticket, and Flixster have the proper 2.39:1 ratios. And Amelie is only avaialble through all providers in 1.78:1 cropped, no one has the proper 2.39:1 presentation.

Apple at least ensures that consistency happens because well, their the only provider. Sure, UV has more options for playback but until the UV consortium puts it foot down and forces the retailers to adhere to standards... its going to be messy transitioning to all digital.

Personally: I watch mostly through Vudu, redeem through Target Ticket, and use my PS3 to get the best audio from the experience.

[VC2020]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

...

Hopefully DMA sets a good example. So far it's very consistent.

[echopulse]

There is no way the studios are going to abandon UV to develop their own systems. They simply have no reason to, because UV already works, and in my opinion, it's better than DMA. Here is why:

DMA doesn't have Disc to Digital, UV does. You can add films you own for as little as $1.00

DMA doesn't have as many providers as UV. We expect Amazon to join soon.

DMA only works in the US, UV works in more than 10 countries.

DMA is only for Disney movies, and not even all of their movies are DMA compatible. No titles from Touchstone, Hollywood Pictures, or Disney Channel are available. UltraViolet has 6 major studios, and about 10,000 films in it's catalog plus about 4,000 TV episodes.

You can delete films you don't want from UV. I have a film in my DMA account that I can't remove because I redeemed a code that I thought was for a movie I wanted, but it was for something I didn't want.

And more features, content, and providers will join the ecosystems in the future. I expect the launch of the Common File Format by the end of CES or even before.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by VC2020

What are some of the advantages other than more copy codes?

The biggest advantage in my opinion is the ability to use disc to digital to get a UV movie into your collection. I also like the "never lose your rights" guarantee, but I know that can be picked apart in the lawyer talk of course. Family sharing has been wonderful from the beginning and with UV you don't have to be very concerned about buying only from one company or losing access to your movies....top of my head....

[VC2020]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

The biggest advantage in my opinion is the ability to use disc to digital to get a UV movie into your collection. I also like the "never lose your rights" guarantee, but I know that can be picked apart in the lawyer talk of course. Family sharing has been wonderful from the beginning and with UV you don't have to be very concerned about buying only from one company or losing access to your movies....top of my head....

Is the reason Apple isn't part of UV public information?

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by echopulse

There is no way the studios are going to abandon UV to develop their own systems. They simply have no reason to, because UV already works, and in my opinion, it's better than DMA. Here is why:

DMA doesn't have Disc to Digital, UV does. You can add films you own for as little as $1.00

DMA doesn't have as many providers as UV. We expect Amazon to join soon.

DMA only works in the US, UV works in more than 10 countries.

DMA is only for Disney movies, and not even all of their movies are DMA compatible. No titles from Touchstone, Hollywood Pictures, or Disney Channel are available. UltraViolet has 6 major studios, and about 10,000 films in it's catalog plus about 4,000 TV episodes.

You can delete films you don't want from UV. I have a film in my DMA account that I can't remove because I redeemed a code that I thought was for a movie I wanted, but it was for something I didn't want.

And more features, content, and providers will join the ecosystems in the future. I expect the launch of the Common File Format by the end of CES or even before.

IT'S NOT A COMPETITION BETWEEN DMA and UV!!!!!!!!

They are different systems for different studios that both work reasonably well.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by VC2020

Is the reason Apple isn't part of UV public information?

Do you mean has Apple taken a public stance? Not that I'm aware of.

[echopulse]

I never said they were in competition. Disney is not trying to get other studios to join Keychest, and I doubt they will. The other studios have UltraViolet, and Disney has Keychest. They can co-exist in the marketplace. I use both, and at this point it doesn't matter too much if Disney never joins UV. I now have almost my whole Disney collection in my vudu account. Sure it would be nice if it did. But my point was that Keychest has no real advantages over UV and that the studios have no reason to create their own version.

[satam55]

Originally Posted by echopulse

DMA doesn't have as many providers as UV. We expect Amazon to join soon.

Don't forget it looks like Sony's "Video Unlimited" will also be joining UV.