Blu-ray Closing the Gap with HD DVD?

[zombie]

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ith_HD_DVD/217

From the article:

HD DVD is at a disadvantage now that two of the format's biggest distributors (Warner and Paramount) have begun rolling out Blu-ray editions of their films, while two of Blu-ray's biggest distributors (Disney and format backer Sony) are releasing titles *exclusively* on Blu-ray.

So true. Studio support is going to come back and bite HD DVD in the ass. It gets worse for HD DVD when Fox releases only on BD as well.

[Blackraven]

Good news.

Also, another trump card would be the PS3.

If it becomes successful overall (I said if), then expect it to be a big help.

External HD-DVD can't do sh*t for this format war. I probably won't even be buying it as it is not worth a $200 price tag (maybe if they price it at 50 US dollars, mwahaha)

[BTBuck1]

like has been said before, this format war is already in sony's favor, if the BDA loses...they'll have done it to themself.

[hmurchison]

The studio support cannot last

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060727-7362.html

European Commission antitrust officials are conducting a probe into the licensing practices of the groups backing HD DVD and Blu-ray. Without revealing the cause for the probe or even its aims, a Commission spokesperson indicated that a review was under way. "We have sent a letter earlier this month to the makers of HD DVD and Blu-ray to request information about licensing

When the EU comes snooping around you'd better take heed. How much longer will the Blu-Ray studios be able to ignore a million or more HD DVD users? They can do what they want in the end but they may lose the right to sell movies in the EU countries. If they can fine Microsoft's arse into compliance they can bully a couple of studios

[JTK]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

The studio support cannot last

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060727-7362.html



When the EU comes snooping around you'd better take heed. How much longer will the Blu-Ray studios be able to ignore a million or more HD DVD users? They can do what they want in the end but they may lose the right to sell movies in the EU countries. If they can fine Microsoft's arse into compliance they can bully a couple of studios

Where'd you get that million figure from?

This is mostly sabre rattling in the courts anyways. I don't think it means that much, one way or the other. A little checks and balances, a little slap on the wrist, everyone goes on their merry way.

[Jazar]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

When the EU comes snooping around you'd better take heed. How much longer will the Blu-Ray studios be able to ignore a million or more HD DVD users? They can do what they want in the end but they may lose the right to sell movies in the EU countries. If they can fine Microsoft's arse into compliance they can bully a couple of studios

Million or more? Toshiba announced recently that they've got 50k HD DVD players shipped. Very far from 1 mil.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

The studio support cannot last

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060727-7362.html



When the EU comes snooping around you'd better take heed. How much longer will the Blu-Ray studios be able to ignore a million or more HD DVD users? They can do what they want in the end but they may lose the right to sell movies in the EU countries. If they can fine Microsoft's arse into compliance they can bully a couple of studios

why do you always refer to EU stuff in all your arguments?
I'd bet that 99.9999% of the members of this site reside in the U.S. and This news is pointless here.

[hmurchison]

I'm thinking like late next year but a million worldwide HD DVD players won't happen until mid 2008 IMO.

As for the EU

http://www.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/03/24/microsoft.eu/

They fined Microsoft $613 million

The EU's antitrust authority said "because the illegal behavior is still ongoing," it would also demand changes in the way the U.S. software giant operated.

The EU ain't the DOJ people. They frankly don't give a rat's arse about Hollywood. If they snoop around and find some strong arming going on I expect some studios will get a warning and then fines will be levied. Now ask yourself what's the easiest way to avoid fines and actually make a bit of money? Support both platforms..you're right.

[ProvenFlipper]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

why do you always refer to EU stuff in all your arguments?
I'd bet that 99.9999% of the members of this site reside in the U.S. and This news is pointless here.

Roast?

I feel that the US and Japan are the biggest factors in issues like this format war. I might be wrong, but I never hear much news regarding electronics in Europe.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by ProvenFlipper

Roast?

I feel that the US and Japan are the biggest factors in issues like this format war. I might be wrong, but I never hear much news regarding electronics in Europe.

Agreed.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

like has been said before, this format war is already in sony's favor, if the BDA loses...they'll have done it to themself.

100% agreement. That's why it shocked me that Sony's own BDs looked so crummy. Thankfully that Tears Of The Sun review indicates they may have woken up before it's too late.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

I'm thinking like late next year but a million worldwide HD DVD players won't happen until mid 2008 IMO.

At the current rate, and given the extremely limited number of vendors, it is extremely unlikely, IMO, that even by 31 December 2008 there will be one million HD DVD boxes in homes. If however, you are ASSUMING there will be several more vendors actually making players (not just rebranding them like RCA) then your million by mid 2008 might happen.

Originally Posted by hmurchison

As for the EU

http://www.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/03/24/microsoft.eu/

They fined Microsoft $613 million

The EU ain't the DOJ people. They frankly don't give a rat's arse about Hollywood. If they snoop around and find some strong arming going on I expect some studios will get a warning and then fines will be levied. Now ask yourself what's the easiest way to avoid fines and actually make a bit of money? Support both platforms..you're right.

AND this is a COMPLETELY different situation than the Microsoft fiasco. Clearly you have absolutely no understanding of the issue the EU has with Microsoft if you think that is anything at all like what is happening in the Blu-ray versus HD DVD world.

There has never been a hint of any evidence that the Blu-ray Disk group or the HD DVD group is attempting to force any studio to go solely with a given vendor's format. Certainly HD DVD would like 100% of the studios to go with their format. Similarly Blu-ray would like 100% of the studios to go with their format. It is the individual studio's choice to issue disks on one format or the other or both.

How would the two formats enforce such a forced tie-in anyway? Within the next year (more likely within the next few months) there will be several development packages from various vendors for each format (assuming, that is, that the format war is not all but over by then). How will either format keep a studio from setting up in a competing format? Answer: neither can and neither will.

This is like Apple or Microsoft or Real trying to keep any music studio tied solely to their format. Sure, they have exclusive deals for a very short time, but after a few weeks or months virtually all music shows up on virtually all formats (even open formats like MP3).

Are you actually delusional enough to believe that HD DVD could possibly threaten/force Universal to go solely with HD DVD? Similarly, there is nothing on the HD DVD side which is forcing Sony to not go with HD DVD. HD DVD does not have that kind of power.

Likewise, there is absolutely nothing on the Blu-ray side which is forcing Universal to not go with Blu-ray. The BDA does not have the power to force Sony to be BD only.

Only devout conspiracy theorists would believe otherwise.


The issue with Microsoft is that the EU has been pressuring Microsoft to issue usable specifications for its APIs for its servers. Microsoft has refused to do this. There are companies that want to create applications able to compete with Microsoft's own applications on servers running Microsoft's operating system. Microsoft refuses to provide a level playing field to the developers of those applications.

As a declared monopoly Microsoft must create a level playing field for the application developers. As a declared monopoly Microsoft cannot give itself preferential treatment by EU rules. Microsof has refused to provide sufficient documentation to non Microsoft developers. Microsoft has been given a long time to comply with this ruling. Since they did not comply even after a long wait, the EU got tired of waiting and fined Microsoft.

This is 100% different from any issue anyone may, or may not, have with the HD DVD versus Blu-ray format war.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by ProvenFlipper

Roast?

I feel that the US and Japan are the biggest factors in issues like this format war. I might be wrong, but I never hear much news regarding electronics in Europe.

You're right. They're usually behind the 8 ball on all of this.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

There has never been a hint of any evidence that the Blu-ray Disk group or the HD DVD group is attempting to force any studio to go solely with a given vendor's format. Certainly HD DVD would like 100% of the studios to go with their format. Similarly Blu-ray would like 100% of the studios to go with their format. It is the individual studio's choice to issue disks on one format or the other or both.

That's precisely what they're attempting to establish. Microsoft was fined in 2004 for anti-competitive behaviour. If similar acts are being done but the studios then they too risk being fined. The core of the issue is "are you competing fairly?".

Funny you should mention Apple. They are under fire in multiple countries for operating a "closed" system in iTunes. Europe isn't America and they don't have entertainment industry to protect. I don't always agree with the EC motives but they are certainly trying to keep things open and somewhat fair. Things the DOJ used to do for Americans before they basically sold out.

No HD DVD nor BDA have that power but the EU has the power to levy fines against studios who cannot justify not supporting a platform. These studios are free to go about their ways but their product may be blocked from sales in the EU because of their actions.

You are attempting to draw differences between the Microsoft vs EU case and my proposal and failing miserably. Microsoft is no more of a monopoly than Apple is a monolopy in music. The crux of the issue is anti-trust. Are consumers hurt by closed and predatory practices? If the answer is yes then fines are justified by the EU. Period.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

That's precisely what they're attempting to establish. Microsoft was fined in 2004 for anti-competitive behaviour. If similar acts are being done but the studios then they too risk being fined. The core of the issue is "are you competing fairly?".

Funny you should mention Apple. They are under fire in multiple countries for operating a "closed" system in iTunes. Europe isn't America and they don't have entertainment industry to protect. I don't always agree with the EC motives but they are certainly trying to keep things open and somewhat fair. Things the DOJ used to do for Americans before they basically sold out.

No HD DVD nor BDA have that power but the EU has the power to levy fines against studios who cannot justify not supporting a platform. These studios are free to go about their ways but their product may be blocked from sales in the EU because of their actions.

You are attempting to draw differences between the Microsoft vs EU case and my proposal and failing miserably. Microsoft is no more of a monopoly than Apple is a monolopy in music. The crux of the issue is anti-trust. Are consumers hurt by closed and predatory practices? If the answer is yes then fines are justified by the EU. Period.

Problem/Irony: Microsoft practically lives in the courts all around the world, fending off lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. It's been like that for almost what? A decade? Longer than that, even?


Possibly to an extreme point, but I daresay few companies have more of a notorious history than they do and bullseyes on their backs as consequence.

Before any hammers drop on the BDA, MS and their crew better make sure their noses are real clean first.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by nyg

100% agreement. That's why it shocked me that Sony's own BDs looked so crummy. Thankfully that Tears Of The Sun review indicates they may have woken up before it's too late.

I seriously think something bigger than mpeg2 & SL was the cause of the softer PQ on early releases. When you have people recording the 1080i HBO broadcast which was mpeg 2 at like 9mbps. and it looks better than the Blu Ray disc...something else is going on or was going on. Now all of the sudden the discs went from ok-good to now great-excellent!

I think sony figured something out with their encoding/authoring etc and found a better way to get things done.

[zombie]

While I'd be surprised if the EU's involvement changes anything, I am all for each format having 100% studio support. That said, why should a studio have to support a format which they believe isn't in their best interests? For example, Fox chose Blu-ray because of their added copyright protection. Who is the EU to tell Fox that it's unacceptable for them to be BD exclusive?

[hmurchison]

I'd agree with that Brian.

Now I hope they just own up and re-release HoFD, Robocop, T5E and potentially more discs.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by nyg

While I'd be surprised if the EU's involvement changes anything, I am all for each format having 100% studio support. That said, why should a studio have to support a format which they believe isn't in their best interests? For example, Fox chose Blu-ray because of their added copyright protection. Who is the EU to tell Fox that it's unacceptable for them to be BD exclusive?

Nothing.

But 100 percent studio support for both formats cannot and will not ever happen.



I hope Tears of Sun represents the beginning of the end of these medicore BD discs from Sony.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

I think sony figured something out with their encoding/authoring etc and found a better way to get things done.

Yeah I fell into the blame MPEG2 trap but it now appears increasingly likely that it wasn't the codec but rather the encoding that was poorly done. A few around here have been saying that all along. Oops...