Attach Rates and the PS3

[Tulsa]

You've seen and read the spin but what is the reality or is there really any way to accurately estimate this albatross?

I currently have 57 BD movies for my PS3. How are those 57 being counted and by whom?

Just a bit curious...

[CptGreedle]

Here is the issue with this.

Attach rates are only really important to the company/industry that is making the products. They want people to buy more of their products so an attach rate is important to see how many people buy the discs (or whatnot) that go with the player.
Not only do they have no way of knowing how many PS3 users watch BD movies, or even know that they can or choose not to or whatever, they (as in the HD-DVD camp) treats the attach rate like the save all for their format. Sure their attach rate is better, if you include every PS3 regardless of the % of users who watch BD movies on them.
But you see, if product A sells 5 copies per 1000 users, that is 5,000 copies sold. If product B sells 2 products per user, but 100,000 users use it, that's 200,000 copies sold. Attach rate nothing! If more movies are being sold, more people are watching them. And that will be the winning format. The issue here is for company B to get their product to get a higher attach rate for themselves.

So the entire Attach rate argument is pointless.

[dakota81]

AVS zealots have always loved to shout about their attach rate of 10, but with 750,000 players and I know 7.5m movies have not been sold...

I was half-hoping Warner's TotalHD would come to be, just because it would make *all* sales ratio and attach rate statistics impossible to calculate.

Attach rate is just (movies sold) / (players sold).

[dialog_gvf]

Attach rates matter if an argument can be made that they will stay consistent, and hence can gauge future sales. But, in this case, neither side can argue that consitency.

The $98 A2s and the general targetting of the low-end will destroy the attach rate HD DVD previously had.

The PS/3 makes it next to impossible to get an accurate number for Blu-ray. And it doesn't help that the HD DVD crowd SIMULATANEOUSLY argue the extremes:

100% PS/3 for Blu-ray attach rate
0% PS/3 for Blu-ray player sales

Only true standalones for HD DVD attach rate
Suddenly add-ons (and maybe even laptops) are standalones for unit sales.

Gary

[Living Near Shamu]

Originally Posted by dakota81

AVS zealots ....

This new "phrase" has entered our vocabularies by now, lol.

[ikbradley]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Attach rates matter if an argument can be made that they will stay consistent, and hence can gauge future sales. But, in this case, neither side can argue that consitency.

The $98 A2s and the general targetting of the low-end will destroy the attach rate HD DVD previously had.

The PS/3 makes it next to impossible to get an accurate number for Blu-ray. And it doesn't help that the HD DVD crowd SIMULATANEOUSLY argue the extremes:

100% PS/3 for Blu-ray attach rate
0% PS/3 for Blu-ray player sales

Only true standalones for HD DVD attach rate
Suddenly add-ons (and maybe even laptops) are standalones for unit sales.

Gary

Exactly. You also have to wonder about an attach rate that includes freebies that are counted as sales at the counter. The HD DVD attach rate means nothing unless each sale is an out-of-pocket consumer sale.

[Paden]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Not only do they have no way of knowing how many PS3 users watch BD movies, or even know that they can or choose not to

Isn't there a way for Sony to have a small App running in the background on a PS3 that sends a quick update out to them when it's used for a movie? M$ has all sorts of ways to spy on consumers so I suppose Sony would just put in a small line that addresses this in their license agreement and they could do whatever they decided to do.

I don't advocate spying but it seems a machine like the PS3 could very easily provide the maker with all sorts of data they desire.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Here is the issue with this.

Attach rates are only really important to the company/industry that is making the products. They want people to buy more of their products so an attach rate is important to see how many people buy the discs (or whatnot) that go with the player.
Not only do they have no way of knowing how many PS3 users watch BD movies, or even know that they can or choose not to or whatever, they (as in the HD-DVD camp) treats the attach rate like the save all for their format. Sure their attach rate is better, if you don't include the PS3, or PS3 games either.But you see, if product A sells 5 copies per 1000 users, that is 5,000 copies sold. If product B sells 2 products per user, but 100,000 users use it, that's 200,000 copies sold. Attach rate nothing! If more movies are being sold, more people are watching them. And that will be the winning format. The issue here is for company B to get their product to get a higher attach rate for themselves.

So the entire Attach rate argument is pointless.

I bolded 2 things you said. The latter is dead on... the attach rate argument, as it is currently being handled, is pointless. The 1st thing you said is actually 180 degrees wrong... HD-DVD gets the low blu-ray attach rate by including the PS3 console not by excluding it. They only exclude it when they count BD player sales.

[Pilam69]

Originally Posted by ikbradley

Exactly. You also have to wonder about an attach rate that includes freebies that are counted as sales at the counter. The HD DVD attach rate means nothing unless each sale is an out-of-pocket consumer sale.

Don't forget that Sony has packaged Blu-Ray movies with the PS3. Glass houses and all.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Tulsa

You've seen and read the spin but what is the reality or is there really any way to accurately estimate this albatross?

I currently have 57 BD movies for my PS3. How are those 57 being counted and by whom?

Just a bit curious...

Your movies are always counted. YOu are also part of the HD-DVD groups attach rate because they choose to include PS3 to jack up the denominator in the blu-ray attach rate calc. However they are NOT counting your PS3 in their BD player totals.

Fun game they play, ain't it?

[CptGreedle]

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

I bolded 2 things you said. The latter is dead on... the attach rate argument, as it is currently being handled, is pointless. The 1st thing you said is actually 180 degrees wrong... HD-DVD gets the low blu-ray attach rate by including the PS3 console not by excluding it. They only exclude it when they count BD player sales.

Oops. My bad. That's what I meant actually. That if they DO count the PS3 and not take into account the % of users watching BD on the, which they don't know for sure and can only guess.

Thanks for that fix.

[miokti]

The way I see it... a high attachment rate only means that fewer people are buying the majority of the discs. For DUD's case, only the passionate zealots are gobbling up the discs. I can see the DUD attachment rates go really high very soon when there's less than 10 of them buying 100 discs each week at the garage sales and 99cent stores.

[lch]

Originally Posted by Paden

Isn't there a way for Sony to have a small App running in the background on a PS3 that sends a quick update out to them when it's used for a movie? M$ has all sorts of ways to spy on consumers so I suppose Sony would just put in a small line that addresses this in their license agreement and they could do whatever they decided to do.

I don't advocate spying but it seems a machine like the PS3 could very easily provide the maker with all sorts of data they desire.

if they do that, sony will have another 'rootkit trouble' backslash by anti sony crowds.