La Belle et la Bête (BFI)

[bigshot]

DVD Beaver has a review of the new BFI restoration of Cocteau's Beauty & the Beast. The screen caps look fantastic, but they mention macro blocking and include a blowup to show the macro blocking. On my monitor I can't see any macro blocking in their example. I think this is another example of that weird gamma bug that makes banding in blacks visible on some monitors, but not others. I suspect on my projection system it would look just fine, just like it does on my calibrated iMac.

I hope someday someone gets to the bottom of this problem and posts a fix for it. It's very confusing to read reviews that mention artifacts that are completely invisible on my system.

[melody nelson]

Genuinely curious - have you ever seen macroblocking on a Blu-ray disc? Every time someone points to a problematic transfer, you claim that the issue is not visible on your "calibrated system," even though most people seem to agree that a disc like Olive's original Quiet Man is riddled with artifacts.

[Olmo]

Originally Posted by bigshot

DVD Beaver has a review of the new BFI restoration of Cocteau's Beauty & the Beast. The screen caps look fantastic, but they mention macro blocking and include a blowup to show the macro blocking. On my monitor I can't see any macro blocking in their example. I think this is another example of that weird gamma bug that makes banding in blacks visible on some monitors, but not others. I suspect on my projection system it would look just fine, just like it does on my calibrated iMac.

I hope someday someone gets to the bottom of this problem and posts a fix for it. It's very confusing to read reviews that mention artifacts that are completely invisible on my system.

The macro blocking was highlighted by Nick Wrigley via Twitter a week or so ago, also.

So Beaver's analysis isn't a lone voice on the anomaly.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by bigshot

DVD Beaver has a review of the new BFI restoration of Cocteau's Beauty & the Beast. The screen caps look fantastic, but they mention macro blocking and include a blowup to show the macro blocking. On my monitor I can't see any macro blocking in their example.

I can spot the blocking on my 32'' Samsung and I think the example is boosted slightly to highlight the issue. I'd imagine it depends on what gamma you're trying to achieve, it might lessen the affect.

[adamhopelies]

The blocking is clear as day in the examples posted by Wrigley and Beaver on my smartphone and MacBook.

[Si Parallel Universe]

Hoping BFI will review this and issue replacement discs ..

[_Ewan_]

I’ve contacted them about it, I hope if enough of us do it then they’ll look into it.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Olmo

The macro blocking was highlighted by Nick Wrigley via Twitter a week or so ago, also.

So Beaver's analysis isn't a lone voice on the anomaly.

However, on first viewing, Tooze (Beaver) didn't see much if any macroblocking. Once people started pointing it out, he watched it again and amended his review.

[sjt]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

However, on first viewing, Tooze (Beaver) didn't see much if any macroblocking. Once people started pointing it out, he watched it again and amended his review.

And doesn't that tell you all you need to know about all parties concerned?

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by sjt

And doesn't that tell you all you need to know about all parties concerned?

It tells me that it's potentially not that noticeable unless you're really looking for it (he even says he didn't really see it until he zoomed in), so while it's definitely there, it could easily be a relative non-issue if you have to actively look for it to see it.

What else should it tell me?

[bigshot]

My experience is that if your gamma is set correctly, the blocking should be one notch above black- read: invisible in the shadows. I have an Epson projector that is calibrated using Spears and Munsil and very very dark is very very dark. My calibrated Mac is the same. Perhaps other types of monitors reveal the stuff at the bleeding edges more. I think it's some sort of thing that only affects certain monitors. It might be that my system is calibrated for total darkness and other people have theirs calibrated for daylight. That could be why some people are seeing things brighter than I am.

[oddbox83]

Regardless, the bitrate shouldn't be dropping so low on live action shots so the gamma is immaterial. This isn't the first BFI disc to have this issue, the encoder isn't set correctly for material with a lot of black levels in scenes and it's dropping the bitrate to caption on black screen levels when it is incorrect to do so.

[BigNickUK]

Review is up

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/La-Be...191758/#Review

[Spiderwalk]

I've been waiting patiently for an English friendly version of the French 4K restoration, but I've been really put off by all the talk of macro-blocking. I wonder if there's a difference between the review discs and the final retail copies? There's no mention of anything bad on the site review.

[peerpee]

Originally Posted by BigNickUK

Review is up

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/La-Be...191758/#Review

The 1080p screenshots from the review are riddled with macroblocking, which proves that Dr Svet has the same disc I saw, and that he's completely missed the problem – probably because his equipment isn't optimised.

[Spiderwalk]

Originally Posted by peerpee

The 1080p screenshots from the review are riddled with macroblocking, which proves that Dr Svet has the same disc I saw, and that he's completely missed the problem – probably because his equipment isn't optimised.

On closer inspection I can only see macro-blocking in the top right hand corner of the screenshot below. Also, it's only visible to me by viewing the screen from a side angle, head-on it looks absolutely fine. I've only calibrated my screen using AVS HD though.

I really can't decide whether to buy this edition, or wait for a better release?

[peerpee]

We'll all see different things because our computer screens, displays, and projectors are all differently calibrated or uncalibrated. My point is, and this is an objective observation: the macroblocking is pervasive and baked in to the encode. Screenshots from three independent sources reveal the same problem. It appears only in dark areas of the screen and it affects the whole film. Drop the screenshots in Photoshop and boost the levels (IMAGE > ADJUSTMENTS > LEVELS) – all will be revealed, and it's not pretty.

During these particularly macroblocked sequences, the bitrate drops down to between 3 and 6. Way below where it should be.

99.9% of the Blu-rays I watch do not exhibit anything like this level of macroblocking – and on my display (Sony A1 OLED), this disc was unwatchable because of it.

If you're not seeing the macroblocking much during normal play, the disc will be watchable – but that doesn't mean the problems aren't there, or that they're acceptable, or that it should receive 4.5/5 for picture quality.

If problems like this aren't recognised and understood, they will continue happening.

[Si Parallel Universe]

Originally Posted by peerpee

We'll all see different things because our computer screens, displays, and projectors are all differently calibrated or uncalibrated. My point is, and this is an objective observation: the macroblocking is pervasive and baked in to the encode. Screenshots from three independent sources reveal the same problem. It appears only in dark areas of the screen and it affects the whole film. Drop the screenshots in Photoshop and boost the levels (IMAGE > ADJUSTMENTS > LEVELS) – all will be revealed, and it's not pretty.

During these particularly macroblocked sequences, the bitrate drops down to between 3 and 6. Way below where it should be.

99.9% of the Blu-rays I watch do not exhibit anything like this level of macroblocking – and on my display (Sony A1 OLED), this disc was unwatchable because of it.

If you're not seeing the macroblocking much during normal play, the disc will be watchable – but that doesn't mean the problems aren't there, or that they're acceptable, or that it should receive 4.5/5 for picture quality.

If problems like this aren't recognised and understood, they will continue happening.

Cool.

So what is the solution do you think, please ?

[peerpee]

Thought it was obvious? The solution is to encode it much, much better, with a healthy bitrate and not to allow any automatic processes to treat black/dark as something that doesn't require as much attention as light/white. On films like this, the entire image is silver halide crystals and it all needs careful attention.

[Si Parallel Universe]

Originally Posted by peerpee

Thought it was obvious? The solution is to encode it much, much better, with a healthy bitrate and not to allow any automatic processes to treat black/dark as something that doesn't require as much attention as light/white. On films like this, the entire image is silver halide crystals and it all needs careful attention.

If it was obvious I wouldn't be asking. I'm asking because elsewhere somebody else said that the macro blocking issue wasn't to do with the encode itself.