The Galactic Empire - A Star Wars study

[NARMAK]

So i thought it would be neat to maybe put together all the pieces of what we know about The Galactic Empire of Star Wars and what their actual goals really were for the world that they lived in.

What was their ultimate goal?

They have engaged in wars and killed loads of people and taken over lands just as we see in real life like with the Roman empires etc. but what were they trying to work towards? Surely turning everybody into a slave rather than simply a citizen wasn't the goal because we can see how they allowed free trade and ownership in the systems they controlled. They also allowed a system of a "Senate" to come about and still exist despite it pretty much being an autocracy.

So it begs the question as to what the Emperor ultimately wanted with this empire of his.

Let's discuss.

[Doctor Jack]

That's the answer.

[Al_The_Strange]

I don't think the Empire as a whole ever had a goal--the Emperor wanted to total control over the galaxy, Vader wanted to overthrow him, and every other subordinate had to scheme and fight over their positions (the same way Nazi Germany did in WWII).

Beyond that, the Empire's function was to run the galaxy as usual. Their way of governance happened to involve stricter policies and a crap-ton more stormtroopers.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Strange

I don't think the Empire as a whole ever had a goal--the Emperor wanted to total control over the galaxy, Vader wanted to overthrow him, and every other subordinate had to scheme and fight over their positions (the same way Nazi Germany did in WWII).

Beyond that, the Empire's function was to run the galaxy as usual. Their way of governance happened to involve stricter policies and a crap-ton more stormtroopers.

But what were the stricter policies?

We only know Vader wanted to overthrow Palpatine because that's what he did to his master and the rule of two Siths seemed to be born whereas we know if the Old Republic games are canon that there used to be a lot of them.

They seem like any other empire a la the Romans and I wouldn't quite compare them to the Nazis but I can see how that comparison could be made with the way they systematically wiped out the Jedis. That said, it was more of an elimination of a group that posed a threat to them with their abilities as opposed to a systematic annihilation of a group based on ideologies per se like the Nazis did.

So like any other Empire, does it really just boil down the controlling everything just for the sake of it with no end goal or was there a goal?

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

But what were the stricter policies?

We only know Vader wanted to overthrow Palpatine because that's what he did to his master and the rule of two Siths seemed to be born whereas we know if the Old Republic games are canon that there used to be a lot of them.

They seem like any other empire a la the Romans and I wouldn't quite compare them to the Nazis but I can see how that comparison could be made with the way they systematically wiped out the Jedis. That said, it was more of an elimination of a group that posed a threat to them with their abilities as opposed to a systematic annihilation of a group based on ideologies per se like the Nazis did.

So like any other Empire, does it really just boil down the controlling everything just for the sake of it with no end goal or was there a goal?

I did see it as being "like any other Empire."

I'm pretty sure I read some books that described the Emperor as being racist and sexist, and it was an attitude that filtered down into the lower ranks (which is why you never see aliens or women on the Star Destroyer decks). Given that they also enslaved the Wookies (and probably other races--whatever happened to the Gungans, I don't remember), my impression was that they had no tolerance, and therefore offered no freedom. Pure oppression.

As far as specific policies go, it doesn't get more oppressive than the Tarkin doctrine--the whole "rule by fear" notion, with the Death Star (essentially brute military force) was the policy Vader and the gang embraced to "keep the local systems in line."

One thing I forgot about was the Sith agenda. The "rule of two" explains why Vader wanted to overthrow Palpatine, sorta, but I believe Palpatine's motive was to bring the Sith back into power (after being absent for 1000 years or so, previously defeated by the Jedi). As to why that's important...I dunno. Because he was a fanatic? Or could he have been Darth Plageius' pawn? Either way, he and Darth Maul talked about taking revenge against the Jedi, and they did.

[BaerGriggs]

It's pretty interesting to look at from a different point of view. Though they're not canon anymore, the Yuuzhan Vong were a threat that the New Republic was woefully unprepared to meet; I believe at one point in the Legends canon it was said that Palpatine had learned of the Vong threat a few decades before the overthrow of the Empire and one of his goals was to counter this threat with a strong military force.

There's a pretty interested read at this link that theorizes how the galaxy would have looked after a Vong invasion against the Empire.

[Rodney-2187]

The Empire meant different things to different people. Vader wanted order, Palpatine wanted power and control. I'm sure some just looked at it as a job.

One of the parts of the prequels I liked:

Supreme Chancellor: "Remember back to your early teachings. All who gain power are afraid to lose it. Even the Jedi."

Anakin Skywalker: "The Jedi use their power for good."

Supreme Chancellor: "Good is a point of view, Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power."

Anakin Skywalker: "The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves."

Supreme Chancellor: "And the Jedi don't?"

Anakin Skywalker: "The Jedi are selfless... they only care about others."

Palpatine then changes the subject to talk about Plagueis. (Who I still think is Snoke.)

[NARMAK]

We don't see the Gungans again but not to say they're not still out there and try to remember that the Wookies in Revenge of the Sith were helping the Jedi, so although not all would have been killed, similar to the Gungans, they may have had a bone to pick with the Empire.

Nothing though specifically tells us that Wookies and Gungans have been wiped out or really badly mistreated since those incidents but they just don't seem to appear much anymore in the stories cause they're not needed. Same with like Ewoks.

I think we've been shown that the empire has done some really crappy things in the stories such as using the Death Star to blow up planets or parts of them leading us to believe they're inherently evil which is true. Rather than deal with the enemies they have in a methodical way, they just chose to blow up entire systems and make the rest fearful and get into line.

So the galactic empire ultimately seems to be aiming towards ruling everything they can and keeping it under control through fear and when they deem necessary, genocide.

The idea we're left with is that perhaps the Empire is inherently evil BUT what if Vader had convinced Luke to join him and they ruled together but changed the way the Empire worked a little? Would it have been considered "better"?

Let us not forget something of our own history here on Earth. The Death Star is pretty much the Sci fi version of nuclear weapons. The most violent and powerful method of warfare and indiscriminately kills anybody.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

We don't see the Gungans again but not to say they're not still out there and try to remember that the Wookies in Revenge of the Sith were helping the Jedi, so although not all would have been killed, similar to the Gungans, they may have had a bone to pick with the Empire.

Nothing though specifically tells us that Wookies and Gungans have been wiped out or really badly mistreated since those incidents but they just don't seem to appear much anymore in the stories cause they're not needed. Same with like Ewoks.

The movies never explicitly state that any races are enslaved, but I'm pretty sure I read it in some books that in the OT the Wookies were slaves, and even went so far as providing the workforce for building the Imperial war machine. Chewbacca was a slave who was rescued by Han Solo (hence the life debt--don't remember where I read this, but I certainly grew up understanding that from all the SW media at the time).

I do recall that in the Force Unleashed games, you do see the Empire besieging Kashyykk pretty brutally. The spice mines of Kessel (briefly mention in Ep IV, and was a setting in the Jedi Search novel (which is probably not canon anymore)) was a place where Wookies were sent for forced labor.

Assuming Wookiepedia can be a reliable resource, this can all be confirmed to still be considered canon.

Yeah, for the purposes of the movies this background wasn't really necessary for the plots. But they are further examples of the Empire's tyranny (and now that I think about it, the Rogue One movie missed its opportunity to show slaves in action--but the movie does show the Empire's lack of respect for alien cultures, or life in general, when they

[Show spoiler]straight-up nuke Jedha

).

Originally Posted by NARMAK

The idea we're left with is that perhaps the Empire is inherently evil BUT what if Vader had convinced Luke to join him and they ruled together but changed the way the Empire worked a little? Would it have been considered "better"?

It would have been an interesting to see how that would turn out. The problem was, Vader was conspiring to turn Luke to the Dark Side, and in his vulnerable state in TESB, Luke could have turned. Then you'd have two evildoers ruling the galaxy, and there's no real indication that they'd suddenly turn good.

[Show spoiler]Vader only bounced back because Luke remained good.

The chances of Luke joining and then convincing Vader to turn to good seems a little flakier to me, unless Luke found some way to bounce back himself (maybe through Leia or something?) to provide that kind of moral direction. Could have been interesting though, but I figure Luke prevailed as a hero precisely because he picked the high road when the critical turning point came up.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

as to what the Emperor ultimately wanted with this empire of his.

But it was here that they would one day work together the way Sidious and Plagueis had to coax from the dark side its final secrets. In the intervening years he had actually come to appreciate Plagueis for the planner and prophet he had been. Such perilous machinations required two Sith, one to serve as bait for the dark side, the other to be the vessel. Success would grant them the power to harness the full powers of the dark side, and allow them to rule for ten thousand years.

And he would not allow himself to be sidetracked from his goal of unlocking the secrets many of the Sith Masters before him had sought: the means to harness the powers of the dark side to reshape reality itself; in effect, to fashion a universe of his own creation. Not mere immortality of the sort Plagueis had lusted after, but influence of the ultimate sort.

- from the book Tarkin by James Luceno

[JeffTheMovieGuy]

Ultimately this question can be asked to every villain who has world or in this case Galactic control on their mind.

The one movie villain that I'd love to ask this to would be Albert Wesker from the Resident Evil series you're the head of the Umbrella Corporation, that's great but what is your purpose since most of the world has become zombie hordes/tyrants what exactly are you ruling over?

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

We don't see the Gungans again but not to say they're not still out there and try to remember that the Wookies in Revenge of the Sith were helping the Jedi, so although not all would have been killed, similar to the Gungans, they may have had a bone to pick with the Empire.

Nothing though specifically tells us that Wookies and Gungans have been wiped out or really badly mistreated since those incidents but they just don't seem to appear much anymore in the stories cause they're not needed. Same with like Ewoks.

I think we've been shown that the empire has done some really crappy things in the stories such as using the Death Star to blow up planets or parts of them leading us to believe they're inherently evil which is true. Rather than deal with the enemies they have in a methodical way, they just chose to blow up entire systems and make the rest fearful and get into line.

So the galactic empire ultimately seems to be aiming towards ruling everything they can and keeping it under control through fear and when they deem necessary, genocide.

The idea we're left with is that perhaps the Empire is inherently evil BUT what if Vader had convinced Luke to join him and they ruled together but changed the way the Empire worked a little? Would it have been considered "better"?

Let us not forget something of our own history here on Earth. The Death Star is pretty much the Sci fi version of nuclear weapons. The most violent and powerful method of warfare and indiscriminately kills anybody.

We see the Gungans again at the end of Jedi so they are very much alive, Naboo looks untouched which isn't surprising seeing as it's the Emperors homeworld.

The Wookies were enslaved and their planet was strip mined (confirmed in the new novels that are canon)

[tigertron]

The difference between the Empire and the Republic was slavery and higher taxes etc. The Republic had very strict anti-slavery laws (as pointed out by Padmé in TPM) and this all went out the window when the Empire took over.

[Josep5349]

Originally Posted by tigertron

The difference between the Empire and the Republic was slavery and higher taxes etc. The Republic had very strict anti-slavery laws (as pointed out by Padmé in TPM) and this all went out the window when the Empire took over.

Republic anti-slavery? What do you call using thousands of sentient beings for the sole purpose of fighting and dying in a war?

[JasonHensley]

Originally Posted by Josep5349

Republic anti-slavery? What do you call using thousands of sentient beings for the sole purpose of fighting and dying in a war?

But wasn't that Palpatines doing to begin with?

[JamesBenjamin]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

They also allowed a system of a "Senate" to come about and still exist despite it pretty much being an autocracy.

Nope. Palpatine dissolved the Senate.

[Josep5349]

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

But wasn't that Palpatines doing to begin with?

It had to be approved by the Senate though, and the Jedi went along with it by being the Generals / ranking officers on the ground. The Republic, the Jedi and even Padme were drowining in hypocrisy.

[BoogalooShrimp]

Originally Posted by Josep5349

Republic anti-slavery? What do you call using thousands of sentient beings for the sole purpose of fighting and dying in a war?

In fairness to them their backs were against the wall. They had just discovered an alliance between a sith lord and a separatist army with a seemingly endless supply of droid troops. Were they just supposed roll over and let the separatists conquer them even though they have a huge clone army just sitting there? They didn't create the clones either, Syfo Dias did. I'm sure their #1 priority was winning the war and they can talk about whether a clone army should exist afterward. I also don't remember the Republic treating the clones any worse than any other normal soldier.

[Josep5349]

Originally Posted by BoogalooShrimp

In fairness to them their backs were against the wall. They had just discovered an alliance between a sith lord and a separatist army with a seemingly endless supply of droid troops. Were they just supposed roll over and let the separatists conquer them even though they have a huge clone army just sitting there? They didn't create the clones either, Syfo Dias did. I'm sure their #1 priority was winning the war and they can talk about whether a clone army should exist afterward. I also don't remember the Republic treating the clones any worse than any other normal soldier.

I'm not saying they were supposed to roll over, but they could have made signing up voluntary, and, say, allow any of the clones who didn't want to fight to do so without the threat of being put down for treason. They could have halted the clone production and replaced it their own droid army.

[JasonHensley]

Originally Posted by Josep5349

I'm not saying they were supposed to roll over, but they could have made signing up voluntary, and, say, allow any of the clones who didn't want to fight to do so without the threat of being put down for treason. They could have halted the clone production and replaced it their own droid army.

Was it ever specified if the Clones actually would have free will? Or was their DNA altered to only fight and take orders?