Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: Round Two

[zombie]

http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature..._roundtwo.html

[marzetta7]

Most underrated codec...H.264/MPEG4

I won't be suprised if it's blowing the socks off of critics when implemented and becomes increasingly used for BD's.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by marzetta7

Most underrated codec...H.264/MPEG4

I won't be suprised if it's blowing the socks off of critics when implemented and becomes increasingly used for BD's.

Definitely agreed on that. We barely even read about it or hear about it.

[ethan]

I agree. Lately I read a lot about H264, I think it might take some time to perfect the encoding, it has a lot of parameters available and the encoders are not yet optimum. I remember the quicktime H264 encoder improved a lot between versions, I can only imagine those of authoring systems. Hopefully, they can use that quicktime experience to tweak the encoders, after all, Apple is fully on board with bluray. H264 has the most potential yet "in theory". I mean even if the first release are simply on par with VC1, they still have a lot they can improve on the encoder side.

About the article, I have to give it a thumb down.
More specifically :

Price Matters More Than Ever
One thing hasn't yet changed, however -- Blu-ray hardware and software is still generally more expensive than HD DVD. Sure, we early adopters are used to paying big prices for our new toys. But when even a comparatively"cheap" $500 player and $29 discs makes the average consumer balk at HD DVD, what do you think their reaction is going to be when Blu-ray sticker shock sets in? That $1000 price tag for the Samsung is pretty steep even for diehard tech-heads, not to mention those upcoming $40 discs from Fox and MGM.

Nice spin about the price of the discs, the price comes from the studios, blurays and hddvds from the same studios are the same price. How much are those Fox and MGM movies on hddvd? Oh right, they are bluray exclusives. But in the event that bluray disappear, they would be 40$ on hddvd.

His example of betamax is another funny spin. There are MANY reasons betamax lost against VHS. Ironically, one reason was that there was only ONE company making beta decks, and another reason was that the beta recording length was shorter.

A better reference would be the DVD launch. My first DVD was the sony 7000, 1200$ and by far the most expensive, there were 500$ dvd players available then. THe sony 7000 was by far the best seller, MOST early adopters had the Sony, some had the toshiba (which was around 800$) and very few bought the 500$ player. But the sony was the best DVD player.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the same thing happenning with the panasonic and/or the pioneer coming out next month (hopefully next month). It won't happen with the Samsung, but it's not because of it's price, it's because it apparently sucks.

[JTK]

One thing about this price argument that HD-DVD zealots try to wave around and I've shot down since day one with this simple statement that drives them nuts:

You get what you pay for.



Take it from me.

As an HD-DVD owner of five weeks, who loves the software and the PQ and yet I'm getting rid of the player because I can't stand it. I refuse to keep something where I have to feel LUCKY when/if it works right. It doesn't MATTER how good it looks and sounds if it doesn't work right.


Take my word for it. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Thank God I'll get most of my money back. It's a glorifed rental situation for me when it's all said and done.


I can guarandamntee everyone here that even the PS3 will be a better machine than these HD-DVD players are, to say nothing about the forthcoming standalone players from the big boys.

[Psiweaver]

I can't wait for the machines from the big boys to come out. THe pioneer is going to be rock solid and I personally think is going to be a good deal at 1500 because it will have very nice upconversion of dvds support the streaming of content over a network to the unit and to top that all off it'll be a blu-ray player.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

I can't wait for the machines from the big boys to come out. THe pioneer is going to be rock solid and I personally think is going to be a good deal at 1500 because it will have very nice upconversion of dvds support the streaming of content over a network to the unit and to top that all off it'll be a blu-ray player.

Whoah, whoah, whoah!

Who said you had to pay MSRP for any of this?

[PurpleAardvark]

Originally Posted by JTK

You get what you pay for.
As an HD-DVD owner of five weeks, who loves the software and the PQ and yet I'm getting rid of the player because I can't stand it. I refuse to keep something where I have to feel LUCKY when/if it works right. It doesn't MATTER how good it looks and sounds if it doesn't work right.
Take my word for it. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
Thank God I'll get most of my money back. It's a glorifed rental situation for me when it's all said and done.

Been there before it sucks don't it. I have said it all along HD would be better off with out the P.O.S. company Toshiba. At least their dvd players are Consistent at one thing, not working right.

[AV_Integrated]

MSRP vs. studio AND industry support. Those are the two items. Unless something changes, you will soon have 6+ Blu-ray players out there and the 'average consumer' with a PS3 in their home. I am truly suprised that BD50 is actually going to be out this year, but am glad to see VC-1 in use now. When AVC hits the ground we should see Sony make the conversion to that I expect.

Really though, it's just grand to hear that the new codecs are proving the Samsung to be a decent player and it should get some more people excited about the upcoming players from companies that actually know how to make a decent DVD player (Panasonic/Pioneer especially).

PS3 will be it for me for a little while I think.

[Dave]

To me HD DVD is dead already. Those movies released in 2006 for HD DVD are the first and THE LAST for this format i think.

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by ethan

His example of betamax is another funny spin. There are MANY reasons betamax lost against VHS. Ironically, one reason was that there was only ONE company making beta decks, and another reason was that the beta recording length was shorter.

Well, iirc Sanyo also made Beta decks... aren't they also supposed to be HD DVD makers?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by phloyd

Well, iirc Sanyo also made Beta decks... aren't they also supposed to be HD DVD makers?

Supposed to be but even they haven't bothered to step up yet.

[georgir]

about hddvd's quality: the fact that there's a 'cheap' and an 'expencive' version of the toshiba player alone says enough to me. $300 difference for just a different casing? oh yeah... the XA1 one isn't without a few cut-corners itself, i dont even want to think how crap the A1 one could be.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by georgir

about hddvd's quality: the fact that there's a 'cheap' and an 'expencive' version of the toshiba player alone says enough to me. $300 difference for just a different casing? oh yeah... the XA1 one isn't without a few cut-corners itself, i dont even want to think how crap the A1 one could be.

They're both crap with different casings. Take my 5 weeks of firsthand knowledge and word for it.

[Zvi]

One more vote on A1 being crap. Slow boot, skipping, hangs, all that with 2.0 firmware.
Yeah, it's first gen, etc, but nothing spectacular. Although the movies do look spectacular, at least the ones I've watched Hi Def movies rule.

[Psiweaver]

Originally Posted by JTK

Whoah, whoah, whoah!

Who said you had to pay MSRP for any of this?

Good luck trying to find a Pioneer Elite dealer who won't be selling these like hot cakes at MSRP. Where I work we don't do discounts really everything is sold for full retail. You might be able to find some grey market Elite players but remember its the Elite line not the standard. THe standard they'll sell to anyone and there dog the elite on the other hand they are a little more protective of.

[takezo]

Blu- Ray is the superior format.

By the end of the year, Blu-Ray players avalible will out number HD-DVD players availible. With highly recognisable brand names, larger studio support, 50gb disc space which will make even Mpeg 2 encoded movies look sweet, and throw that on top of a highly popular gaming system. Blu-Ray is almost destined for victory.

MSFT and their HD-DVD chums, can off set this by releasing a midranged player, which many non-enthusiasts can afford. A $250 HD-DVD player can posibly change destiny in HD-DVD's favor.

But like other failed formats (UMD movies), people will tend to not buy the same movie twice. Thus, Blu-Ray will still have the advantage of more new releases, over HD-DVD simply because of their large studio support.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by JTK

Supposed to be but even they haven't bothered to step up yet.

Reminds me, are they still part of HD-DVD? Haven't seen any from them yet.

Same goes for NEC. But I expect them though to be the one to release the PC drives.

[Applefiend]

Sanyo are in a lot of trouble, they laid off 10,000 people. They may be quitting the DVD Player business all together.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by Applefiend

Sanyo are in a lot of trouble, they laid off 10,000 people. They may be quitting the DVD Player business all together.

Waaah, so Sanyo would bring NOTHING to HD-DVD then.

Guess it's Toshiba, NEC and MS all by themselves.