Tsui Hark's The Taking of Tiger Mountain

[toddly6666]

Just saw this film. Entertaining but fair and forgettable. Nowhere as good as his first Dee film. His over-relliance on fair cgi effects has tarnished his style of filmmaking. Too many characters and not enough focus makes it pretty sloppy. A bizarre patriotic connection with scenes of the present time is also really really awkward. Film has an alternate ending towards the end which is actually better and more epic than the first ending.

There are some creative scenes (some Matrixy bullet-time moments, tiger scene, and a crazy ski scene) but the wonky cgi sort of ruins it. Hark needs to go back to doing more real sets and more wire work. He still have creative action ideas which are great but he's not doing too well in the 2000s as he did before then.

2.5 out of 5

[Futurhythm]

I'm always happy for new Tsui Hark since he's somebody who can never be accused of making a boring movie. I'm a bit conflicted about seeing it though. From the trailer it looks like typical Tsui Hark craziness and I'm all for that, but on the other hand the movie is based on a novel and play that was sanctioned by the Communist Party during the Cultural Revolution. Sure you could argue everything and anything can be propaganda, but the Chinese sure as hell aren't known for their subtlety.

[yeek]

Thanks for the review Toddly...

[darry]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

I'm always happy for new Tsui Hark since he's somebody who can never be accused of making a boring movie. I'm a bit conflicted about seeing it though. From the trailer it looks like typical Tsui Hark craziness and I'm all for that, but on the other hand the movie is based on a novel and play that was sanctioned by the Communist Party during the Cultural Revolution. Sure you could argue everything and anything can be propaganda, but the Chinese sure as hell aren't known for their subtlety.

The Chinese aren't known for their subtlety? Maybe try and sound a little less racist next time.

[Futurhythm]

Originally Posted by darry

The Chinese aren't known for their subtlety? Maybe try and sound a little less racist next time.

I wasn't being and don't have any intention of being racist at all. As a Chinese person I can very safely say that there's a certain garishness and lack of subtlety to certain aspects of Chinese culture, and it's something that definitely shows in Chinese-language films. Just look at martial arts movies for example.

How many of them feature a showdown between the Chinese protagonist and a Caucasian or Japanese opponent (often stereotyped to hell I might add) as a climactic point? How many of these also pull out the foreigners are all racist towards Chinese people and China is always being threatened or undermined by foreign nations card? Bruce Lee breaking the Sick Man of Asia sign in Fist of Fury, Huo Yuan Jia being poisoned by the Japanese in Fearless (which by the way isn't even remotely historically accurate), or the characters of Twister and the police commissioner in Ip Man 2 who (unlike the Japanese general in the first one) are nothing more than a cardboard cutouts that tick all the right stereotype boxes.

I only brought up subtlety because the movie in question is based off of a novel adapted into a Peking Opera that was one of the State sanctioned Eight Model Plays spearheaded by Mao Zedong's wife herself during the Cultural Revolution. It's about a Communist soldier who infiltrates a group of bandits and saves the day. There's a certain political aspect involved that doesn't sit well with me, especially considering I'm from an entire generation of Chinese diaspora who only exist because of fear of Communist China and the Cultural Revolution.

[darry]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

I wasn't being and don't have any intention of being racist at all. As a Chinese person I can very safely say that there's a certain garishness and lack of subtlety to certain aspects of Chinese culture, and it's something that definitely shows in Chinese-language films. Just look at martial arts movies for example.

How many of them feature a showdown between the Chinese protagonist and a Caucasian or Japanese opponent (often stereotyped to hell I might add) as a climactic point? How many of these also pull out the foreigners are all racist towards Chinese people and China is always being threatened or undermined by foreign nations card? Bruce Lee breaking the Sick Man of Asia sign in Fist of Fury, Huo Yuan Jia being poisoned by the Japanese in Fearless (which by the way isn't even remotely historically accurate), or the characters of Twister and the police commissioner in Ip Man 2 who (unlike the Japanese general in the first one) are nothing more than a cardboard cutouts that tick all the right stereotype boxes.

I only brought up subtlety because the movie in question is based off of a novel adapted into a Peking Opera that was one of the State sanctioned Eight Model Plays spearheaded by Mao Zedong's wife herself during the Cultural Revolution. It's about a Communist soldier who infiltrates a group of bandits and saves the day. There's a certain political aspect involved that doesn't sit well with me, especially considering I'm from an entire generation of Chinese diaspora who only exist because of fear of Communist China and the Cultural Revolution.

True, some films do 'embellish' stories to show Chinese history in a far better light. But a lot of the martial arts films you mentioned are Chinese mainstream movies designed to make money, in the same way that Hollywood makes bullshit movies that no-one expects are related to reality but bring in the big bucks, like most of their war movies. When China makes the same sort of movies everyone automatically jumps up and down and shouts, "oh my god! Chinese totalitarianism! Chinese communists!" They're changing history to suit themselves!. While this may be true about these particular movies politically, IMO, I don't see why it is a 'Chinese' thing, as if China has the only government in the world that would prefer that their movies represented the awesomeness of their culture and tried to hide and censor the movies that display inadequacies of their rule, because I bet money that all governments do this in different ways. That's what I mean by racism (unless by 'Chinese are not known for their subtlety' you meant specifically the ruling class of China, then I read your statement wrongly). There are many nuanced and talented directors in China that make films that explore Chinese culture. Three movies that come to mind that I have watched recently are Blind Massage, The Blue Bone, and Buddha Mountain. Then there's Back to 1942 as well. To say that Chinese culture can be reduced to an opinion on the movies that display the crappiest part of it, i.e. it's governement or it's politics, is a but one-sided. IMO.

[Dan Average]

Just FYI, the alternate ending was the only ending until the censors rejected it, which Tsui got around by reworking it a "fake" ending. I actually like it that way, since it drives home the self-parodistic aspect of the whole project—this isn't just Tsui Hark's take on Tiger Mountain, this is Tsui Hark's take on a Tiger Mountain that would appeal to twentysomething Chinese raised on a diet of Hollywood blockbusters—and also works, probably accidentally, as a commentary on the story's failure as PLA propaganda (Jimmy is so disappointed to see Yang Zirong "come in from the cold" that he fabricates a ludicrous alternate outcome that transforms him into a Captain Americaesque god-soldier and leaves him on that note). In fact the film is pretty much bleached of all the propagandistic content of the earlier versions, to the point that Communism and the Party aren't even mentioned at all. I actually found it less ideologically bothersome than Young Detective Dee, where Tsui managed to work in thinly-disguised Japanese villains despite the story being set over a thousand years in the past.

[nycomet]

Is there a 3D blu-ray release scheduled in any country as of yet?

I would import this movie to get it on 3D BD.

[Dan Average]

It hasn't been announced anywhere yet, but I don't see any reason to think there won't be a 3D Blu in Hong Kong. Well Go has U.S. rights, but unfortunately their record with 3D isn't good (their theatrical release was 2D only and their only 3D Blus so far are a couple of J-horror titles in 2013—they didn't bother doing a 3D Blu for Young Detective Dee).

[Mansinthe]

In fact the film is pretty much bleached of all the propagandistic content of the earlier versions, to the point that Communism and the Party aren't even mentioned at all. I actually found it less ideologically bothersome than Young Detective Dee, where Tsui managed to work in thinly-disguised Japanese villains despite the story being set over a thousand years in the past.

i dont even notice such things. i watched it as a "fantasy" detectiv movie and didnt think about much else.
but i have a hard time watching some of these Chinese (and american) war movies that have only one good site and a bad site.
Flowers of War for example was a chinese movie that i liked very much, but during the movie i only had the wish that C.Bale would get his batman suit and beat up every japanese person.

and some other chinese war-movies are a pain to sit trough..

But i do like chinese culture alot (and medicine and all that stuff) , had a awesome time in singapore (2 week stay) with all kind of asian nations (mostly chinese, malayasia , indian and some philipine , thai and japanese people..). but the chinese in china town was really the most interessting.. it was really ALOT like in chinese and Hong Kong movies (food , people etc).
and i didnt feel any racism or xenophobia towards me

but since only the winners write the history books , i quess its not much different with america , russia etc..

[Bpro-Elwin]

Any news yet on the 3D Blu Ray?

I loved seeing it on the big screen in gorgeous native 3D so this is a must have on 3D Blu Ray for me

[Asiania]

Originally Posted by Bpro-Elwin

Any news yet on the 3D Blu Ray?

No, but yet another Terminator 2 release is out in Japan. And someone called this story propaganda...

[drobswim13]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

I wasn't being and don't have any intention of being racist at all. As a Chinese person I can very safely say that there's a certain garishness and lack of subtlety to certain aspects of Chinese culture, and it's something that definitely shows in Chinese-language films. Just look at martial arts movies for example.

There was a film in the last couple years that was very pro-Beijing in the ending sequence. I can't remember if it was an Andy Lau or Tony Leung film, but the reference just didn't make sense to the ending of the film. I have many friends from Taiwan, and the entire movie didn't sit well with them because of that scene.

While there are certainly directors that explore different aspects of the culture, a lot of mainstream ones add hints of this "subtlety" you mention, and it isn't subtle at all haha. And, sorry to bring up this point even though these comments are months old

[tenebre6]

This seems to be coming out in Blu in the USA first? thats just "interesting"

[logboy]

Originally Posted by tenebre6

This seems to be coming out in Blu in the USA first? thats just "interesting"

think that's happened with a few Korean films. these have usually had a limited or token theatrical run stateside very quickly after original release in its home territory. odd, but it creates strange sensation of a film being less interesting but can also add to sense of cheaper quicker blu-Ray release,

[Harlock415]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

I wasn't being and don't have any intention of being racist at all. As a Chinese person I can very safely say that there's a certain garishness and lack of subtlety to certain aspects of Chinese culture, and it's something that definitely shows in Chinese-language films. Just look at martial arts movies for example.

How many of them feature a showdown between the Chinese protagonist and a Caucasian or Japanese opponent (often stereotyped to hell I might add) as a climactic point? How many of these also pull out the foreigners are all racist towards Chinese people and China is always being threatened or undermined by foreign nations card? Bruce Lee breaking the Sick Man of Asia sign in Fist of Fury, Huo Yuan Jia being poisoned by the Japanese in Fearless (which by the way isn't even remotely historically accurate), or the characters of Twister and the police commissioner in Ip Man 2 who (unlike the Japanese general in the first one) are nothing more than a cardboard cutouts that tick all the right stereotype boxes.

I only brought up subtlety because the movie in question is based off of a novel adapted into a Peking Opera that was one of the State sanctioned Eight Model Plays spearheaded by Mao Zedong's wife herself during the Cultural Revolution. It's about a Communist soldier who infiltrates a group of bandits and saves the day. There's a certain political aspect involved that doesn't sit well with me, especially considering I'm from an entire generation of Chinese diaspora who only exist because of fear of Communist China and the Cultural Revolution.

As a fellow Chinese I have to agree. Their cinema is not exactly subtle, unless you're Wong Kar Wei. And lately movies seem to be propaganda pieces by the Chinese government. One of the most blatant to me was Champions to thhe point that what could have been an entertaining movie was just damned bad.

[hazelwu]

Originally Posted by tenebre6

This seems to be coming out in Blu in the USA first? thats just "interesting"

Possibly because it's out theatrically in HK in May, so an HK BD won't be out till maybe August.