The Purple Plain (Flammen über Fernost)

[Member-320773]

I just took a peek at the German release of THE PURPLE PLAIN (Flammen über Fernost) from Pidax Film and I was in for a nice surprise. It looks like a remaster of the film with a clean and beautiful transfer (AR is 1,37:1). There is no reference to a new transfer on the cover, but it is probably the same transfer which is on the French blu-ray from Sidonis Calysta. The German edition has no slip and comes just with the blu-ray (the French one includes a DVD and has a slip).

The German cover states region code B, but the disc plays just fine on my Oppo with the settings to region A. There's the Englisch OV and a German dub track, but no subtitles whatsoever. Only the German trailer is included as bonus. However, the cover is reversible, so you won't have to display the ratings logo.

[AUS1969]

Thanks for the review; I ordered it.

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Considering that this is out now http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01AVMS8R8/

can anybody add to the transfer quality on the French one compared to the German version as I want the original 1.37 AR as opposed to the 1.66 nonsense now available - I find this totally annoying why they do this. It's not like someone young will buy this film.

[Member-320773]

Not sure if you can expect differences between the German and the French transfers, but I took a couple of quick and dirty phone snapshots off my screen to illustrate the framing of the German version.
If you head over to the Beaver you can compare them to the US release. I had to do without a time code, but I tried to match them as close as I could.

[Member-320773]

Another one.

[Member-320773]

And the last one (sorry, couldn't figure out how to upload them all at once in one post).

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Thank you so much for this immense effort.
They have removed a considerable amount from the top and bottom of the image. In doing so the grain structure would be increased. Can you say something on the similarities (or not) between the new US version as shown by screen grabs on DVD Beaver and your German version. If the quality is the same I would be very happy in a German purchase. I suspect though it is the same transfer only stretched to the 1.66 AR.
Have you also read any German reviews on your disk were the encoding bitrate was mentioned?

[Moonlight Shadow]

Originally Posted by Yasujiro Ozu

Thank you so much for this immense effort.
They have removed a considerable amount from the top and bottom of the image. In doing so the grain structure would be increased. Can you say something on the similarities (or not) between the new US version as shown by screen grabs on DVD Beaver and your German version. If the quality is the same I would be very happy in a German purchase. I suspect though it is the same transfer only stretched to the 1.66 AR.
Have you also read any German reviews on your disk were the encoding bitrate was mentioned?

The original aspect ratio is 1.66:1. I believe this was confirmed by expert Bob Furmanek way before the US Blu-ray was released.

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Originally Posted by Moonlight Shadow

The original aspect ratio is 1.66:1. I believe this was confirmed by expert Bob Furmanek way before the US Blu-ray was released.

If you're referring to his comment here:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/comm...13215/page-306
He is non conclusive, "In March 1954, Rank is on record with 1.65 or 1.66 as their house ratio but this began filming in early January. I don't have documentation on precisely when they changed to widescreen production."

He does state that principal photography began in January of that year thereby almost guaranteeing that they used academy ratio. In any case I find the framing too tight in the 1.66 version and just right in the 1.37 AR.
I might contact Kino Lorber and see if they can shed any light here as they have used 1.66.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Originally Posted by Yasujiro Ozu

If you're referring to his comment here:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/comm...13215/page-306
He is non conclusive, "In March 1954, Rank is on record with 1.65 or 1.66 as their house ratio but this began filming in early January. I don't have documentation on precisely when they changed to widescreen production."

He does state that principal photography began in January of that year thereby almost guaranteeing that they used academy ratio. In any case I find the framing too tight in the 1.66 version and just right in the 1.37 AR.
I might contact Kino Lorber and see if they can shed any light here as they have used 1.66.

Thanks for digging out the quote, I was too lazy to search for it.
I have the german Blu-ray and when I watched it I felt it had a bit too much headroom. I've never watched the movie in 1.66 so I'm curious about the Kino release.

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Originally Posted by Moonlight Shadow

Thanks for digging out the quote, I was too lazy to search for it.
I have the german Blu-ray and when I watched it I felt it had a bit too much headroom. I've never watched the movie in 1.66 so I'm curious about the Kino release.

Does the image quality on your German disk match the screen-grabs on DVD beaver as far as you can tell?

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film5/blu-r...in_blu-ray.htm

[Moonlight Shadow]

Well, it's difficult for me to compare them because at the moment I can only look at the Beaver screenshots on my lousy laptop but I'd say the two transfers are in the same ballpark. The german Blu-ray looks quite nice and the screenshots of the Kino Blu-ray look good too.

I guress this movie is a case where there is no definite and perfect aspect ratio. Probably the film crew got the information that Rank is switching to 1.66 after they started filming and maybe the DP started to leave some room at the top and bottom to account for widescreen projection midway during production.

Kino at first wanted to release the movie in 1.33 but then asked for a new 1.66 transfer, probably they found some documentation that 1.66 is the correct ratio.
In any case I wouldn't sweat too much about it. The movie probably looks fine in both ratios.

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Originally Posted by Moonlight Shadow

Kino at first wanted to release the movie in 1.33 but then asked for a new 1.66 transfer, probably they found some documentation that 1.66 is the correct ratio.

Is this speculation on your part or if not where did you find this nugget of info?

Edit: I have this (MGM) version of the film on DVD: http://www.amazon.com/Purple-Plain-G...rple+plain+dvd

I commenced the beginning of the DVD and noticed the below message before the main feature begins.
"This film has been modified from it's original version. It has been formatted to fit your TV"

The image on this DVD is 1.37. This would to some prove that the 'Original version' would have been the 1.66 AR although I will concede some scenes do have some extra (unused) headroom, to me at least the majority of the film is correctly formatted for 1.37. Since I have now seen the 'total picture' I cannot adjust to the 1.66 version knowing I will miss out on all that lovely extra image.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Originally Posted by Yasujiro Ozu

Is this speculation on your part or if not where did you find this nugget of info?

Edit: I have this (MGM) version of the film on DVD: http://www.amazon.com/Purple-Plain-G...rple+plain+dvd

I commenced the beginning of the DVD and noticed the below message before the main feature begins.
"This film has been modified from it's original version. It has been formatted to fit your TV"

The image on this DVD is 1.37. This would to some prove that the 'Original version' would have been the 1.66 AR although I will concede some scenes do have some extra (unused) headroom, to me at least the majority of the film is correctly formatted for 1.37. Since I have now seen the 'total picture' I cannot adjust to the 1.66 version knowing I will miss out on all that lovely extra image.

The Kino Blu-ray was at first announced here on Blu-ray.com as being 1.33:1. Then Mr. Lime posted this:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=7164

The disclaimer you are writing about is on many DVDs that are indeed filmed and composed for academy ratio. So it proves nothing.

In this case I'm giving Kino the benefit of the doubt. It would have been the easy way for them to use the existing 1.33 master. They surely had a good reason to ask for a 1.66 master. But as I said, the movie probably looks acceptable but not perfect in both ratios. There are other examples of movies that were filmed during the switch from academy to widescreen that look a bit compromised in either ratio.

[Yasujiro Ozu]

Originally Posted by Moonlight Shadow

.......Then Mr. Lime posted this:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=7164

In this case I'm giving Kino the benefit of the doubt. It would have been the easy way for them to use the existing 1.33 master. They surely had a good reason to ask for a 1.66 master. But as I said, the movie probably looks acceptable but not perfect in both ratios. There are other examples of movies that were filmed during the switch from academy to widescreen that look a bit compromised in either ratio.

Well that puts the definite edge and conclusion which ratio was intended. I do agree with you that in this transition period the DP and at least with this film composed the image with both ratios in mind. Who knows, maybe some cinemas were unable to project at 1.66 initially so some compromise had to be made in the filming stage. My last question here regards the AR, what made Kino question and ask MGM for a new(correct) transfer?

Now....to really start trouble, I wonder if this new 1.66 transfer is an improved version over the 1.33 supplied to the French and German studios?

[Moonlight Shadow]

Originally Posted by Yasujiro Ozu

Well that puts the definite edge and conclusion which ratio was intended. I do agree with you that in this transition period the DP and at least with this film composed the image with both ratios in mind. Who knows, maybe some cinemas were unable to project at 1.66 initially so some compromise had to be made in the filming stage. My last question here regards the AR, what made Kino question and ask MGM for a new(correct) transfer?

Now....to really start trouble, I wonder if this new 1.66 transfer is an improved version over the 1.33 supplied to the French and German studios?

I don't know what made them ask for a 1.66 transfer. Probably someone saw the 1.33 announcement and pointed it out to them that the correct ratio should be 1.66. Kino has had lots of troubles before because they released two or three movies in questionable aspect ratios so I guess this time they wanted to avoid trouble and commissioned a new transfer. But this is all conjecture.
I think it is very possible that their transfer is even better than the german one but probably it will be very close.