Lossless audio?

[Suzukiman600]

What is this? Thanks.

[Suzukiman600]

Anybody? I was talking about a specific BD title and a poster suggested I wait until the release the "Special Edition" with lossless audio? What is this and why would I need it? Is it like true digital audio or something? I am watching my Blu's on my PS3 with video through HDMI and audio through the PS3's audio cables which are plugged into my receiver(not an HDMI receiver or I would be using the HDMI for audio as well). So could I even take advantage of lossless audio with this setup? Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

[nhaase]

It is an audio track which has not been compressed when put on the disc, so none of the sound is "lost," which happens during compression. Use the search function and check the sticky threads for more information.

Addendum: To utilize lossless audio, with your PS3 you will need a receiver which has HDMI audio input, that is the only way you can get lossless audio from a PS3.

So, you may not be able to use it now, but if you plan on upgrading your sound system some time, you may as well wait for it. Any title with lossless audio still comes with a regular dolby digital or DTS soundtrack.

[bluseminole]

In short, lossless audio is just that: "lossless." This means that the audio is encoded bit-for-bit identically to the studio master. Types of lossless audio are:

PCM (Uncompressed audio), DTS-HD MA, and Dolby TrueHD

PCM is uncompressed audio that all BD players are required to support. If you are using HDMI, no matter which version, you will be able to transmit the PCM to your receiver and get the lossless audio. Because it is uncompressed, there is no "decoding", per se, that your receiver must do. Analog multichannel inputs or an HDMI connection to your receiver will get you this audio.

Not all Blu-ray discs have PCM. Some have DTS-HD MA (all Fox titles) and a few, though growing in number, have Dolby TrueHD. Both are compressed to save space, but are still lossless. While in theory they should be identical to their PCM counterparts, this is a separate debate. Just know that *theorectically*, there should be no difference between PCM and these two compressed formats.

TrueHD and DTS_HD MA require decoding along the line. I don't recall if the PS3 has internal TrueHD decoding, but that should be easy enough to find out by researching this forum. If it doesn't, then you will not get losslesss audio from a TrueHD track. THese two compressed versions can be treated two different ways (depending on the player). They can be decoded internally by the player and output as PCM to the receiver, or bitstreamed via HDMI to a comaptible receiver for decoding. Only a very few BD players can bitstream these formats, the PS3 not currently among them. NO player decodes DTS-HD MA internally. If your player doesn't decode them internally, you will get a lossy version, which is a high resolution (but not lossless) "core" track, either Dolby Digital or DTS Digital Surround (1.5mbps) for TrueHD and DTS-HD MA tracks respectively. The two formats behave differently, which I won't discuss here. Just know that you cannot currently get full lossless audio out of a DTS-HD MA track with a PS3, but this may change via firmware updates.

Dolby Digital, DTS, and DTS-HD HR (high resolution) are NOT lossless audio. Some Blu-ray titles (especially dual-format releases) only include a Dolby Digital or DTS soundtrack. Not all BDs have lossless audio. If this is important to you, check before you buy.

Hopefully this clears things up. Ask any questions you need to if I have left something out.

[bluseminole]

Just reread your second post. Unfortunately, without HDMI on your receiver, there is no way for you to get full surround sound lossless audio. Apologies. If you read the uber-long post above, though, maybe you get at least get a handle on what they are.

Guess its just time for a new receiver!

[Suzukiman600]

Originally Posted by bluseminole

In short, lossless audio is just that: "lossless." This means that the audio is encoded bit-for-bit identically to the studio master. Types of lossless audio are:

PCM (Uncompressed audio), DTS-HD MA, and Dolby TrueHD

PCM is uncompressed audio that all BD players are required to support. If you are using HDMI, no matter which version, you will be able to transmit the PCM to your receiver and get the lossless audio. Because it is uncompressed, there is no "decoding", per se, that your receiver must do. Analog multichannel inputs or an HDMI connection to your receiver will get you this audio.

Not all Blu-ray discs have PCM. Some have DTS-HD MA (all Fox titles) and a few, though growing in number, have Dolby TrueHD. Both are compressed to save space, but are still lossless. While in theory they should be identical to their PCM counterparts, this is a separate debate. Just know that *theorectically*, there should be no difference between PCM and these two compressed formats.

TrueHD and DTS_HD MA require decoding along the line. I don't recall if the PS3 has internal TrueHD decoding, but that should be easy enough to find out by researching this forum. If it doesn't, then you will not get losslesss audio from a TrueHD track. THese two compressed versions can be treated two different ways (depending on the player). They can be decoded internally by the player and output as PCM to the receiver, or bitstreamed via HDMI to a comaptible receiver for decoding. Only a very few BD players can bitstream these formats, the PS3 not currently among them. NO player decodes DTS-HD MA internally. If your player doesn't decode them internally, you will get a lossy version, which is a high resolution (but not lossless) "core" track, either Dolby Digital or DTS Digital Surround (1.5mbps) for TrueHD and DTS-HD MA tracks respectively. The two formats behave differently, which I won't discuss here. Just know that you cannot currently get full lossless audio out of a DTS-HD MA track with a PS3, but this may change via firmware updates.

Dolby Digital, DTS, and DTS-HD HR (high resolution) are NOT lossless audio. Some Blu-ray titles (especially dual-format releases) only include a Dolby Digital or DTS soundtrack. Not all BDs have lossless audio. If this is important to you, check before you buy.

Hopefully this clears things up. Ask any questions you need to if I have left something out.

Nope that about does it! Thanks! I figured that it did have something to do with "digital" sound and could not be utilized anyway with my current setup. Agian thanks for the answers. They are much appreciated.

[Suzukiman600]

Originally Posted by bluseminole

Just reread your second post. Unfortunately, without HDMI on your receiver, there is no way for you to get full surround sound lossless audio. Apologies. If you read the uber-long post above, though, maybe you get at least get a handle on what they are.

Guess its just time for a new receiver!

Yeah that is what I figured. I currently have a 720p projector setup. When I move again in 2-3 years I am going to get a whole new sound system with an HDMI receiver and a 1080p projector. For now my current setup is awesome for my needs and I am glad I have a PS3 and decided to go blu! They sure do look nice. I tried to kid myself saying uconverted DVD looked "almost" as good but ever since I have seen the "light" of blu and started watching them then regular dvd(even upconverted) still looks poor and pixelated in comparision.

[bluseminole]

Originally Posted by Suzukiman600

Yeah that is what I figured. I currently have a 720p projector setup. When I move again in 2-3 years I am going to get a whole new sound system with an HDMI receiver and a 1080p projector. For now my current setup is awesome for my needs and I am glad I have a PS3 and decided to go blu! They sure do look nice. I tried to kid myself saying uconverted DVD looked "almost" as good but ever since I have seen the "light" of blu and started watching them then regular dvd(even upconverted) still looks poor and pixelated in comparision.

In that case, welcome to the great fraternity that is BLU! Enjoy!

[Suzukiman600]

Thankie! I am enjoying it thus far. Especially the BOGO's from Amazon! I have purchased 8 titles in the past 2 days with the Amazon BOGO's. If you haven't already, go check them out.

[briseagainst]

Originally Posted by bluseminole

Just reread your second post. Unfortunately, without HDMI on your receiver, there is no way for you to get full surround sound lossless audio. Apologies. If you read the uber-long post above, though, maybe you get at least get a handle on what they are.

Guess its just time for a new receiver!

Just to let you know, that is not true. I have a LG 42" LCD and it has an Optical Out built into the TV. If I hook the PS3 up the to TV via HDMI, then run an optical cable from the TV to my reciever, the PS3 will pass the PCM Loseless signal through my TV onto the optical cable and to the reciever. I am a new PS3 owner and thought you guys might want to know that this is possible if you have an HDMI-in on your TV and an Optical-out as well.

I was super suprised that it worked! It will do Dolby Digital, DTS, and PCM 5.1 Loseless with no problems!

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by briseagainst

I was super suprised that it worked! It will do Dolby Digital, DTS, and PCM 5.1 Loseless with no problems!

optical is not capable of 5.1 PCM. (2.0 stereo at best)

sorry to burst your bubble.


(and running the optical cable from your tv to the receiver is pointless...just run it from the ps3 to receiver. )

[JasonR]

I know that from experience. I tried my hardest to get lossless out of that cable though.

[jason_grumpy]

Originally Posted by JasonR

I know that from experience. I tried my hardest to get lossless out of that cable though.

I got the Yamaha 6090 which I'm very very happy with for lossless, but a little on the expensive side. I think there's some sub $500 receivers that do it as well.

[Crackbone]

I would mention the entire line of Onkyo receivers (605,705,805,875) as being great for the price point. Full decoding of new lossless codecs, and the 605 can be had for under $499.