What would player prices be without HD-DVD competition?

[qz3fwd]

I see competition as a very good thing for the consumer, and if HD-DVD had never entered the market, I believe that we would still be seeing pre 1.0 profile players as the norm for around $1000 or more.

1. What price do you think would be the norm today, if HD-DVD didnt provide market pressure?

2. Do you think the BDA would have added PIP and other advanced interactivity functionality without this competition?

3. Does this competition ultimately benefit the consumer?

[ESUNintel]

My guess is that players would cost around $599 to start, not $299, which is what we're selling the S300 for this week where I work. I do feel; however, that the BDA would have added features and other interactivity, it would just have taken them a bit longer to do so, or perhaps there would be no standerd, Sony would be doing their own thing, while SHarp and others did something else, making each player extremely different.
Competetion is fine, but it is getting a bit to out of hand, it's getting to the point where the HD movie industry may be getting hurt, since many are staying away from either format for the time being. As far as statistics go, and from what I see everyday from shoppers, Blu-ray is the preffered format; I just do not know why HD-DVD does not give up, they are clearly loosing money. Just speaking from my slaes last week, I sold 9 Blu players, and only 1 HD-DVD player. The guy that purchased the HD-DVD player claimed to do so because it was cheaper. Prices are reasonable today; however, consumers are still requesting lower prices.

[stockstar1138]

the ps3 would still be at its same price, because it has to compete against other consoles. the ps3 would've been way too much competition for other SALs if there was that much of a gap between the PS3 and the SALs at that price. The PS3 would've forced SAL prices down to at least a street value of $349 right now, which is only $50 more.

[qz3fwd]

So, one of the stated objectives of the BDA to provide the CE manufacturers with pricey SAL's was a fallacy as the PS3 has quickly canabilized SAL sales and has actually hurt the CE's?

Nevertheless, I agree with you that the PS3 has/would have set the minimum player price point.

[blu-rayfan101]

I agree, without competition there would be no reason to lower prices.$

[qz3fwd]

Touchdown-for the consumer.

Would you rather keep the money in your pocket or line the pockets of the CE manufacturers?

[J6P]

Originally Posted by qz3fwd

Touchdown-for the consumer.

Would you rather keep the money in your pocket or line the pockets of the CE manufacturers?

Line the pockets? I don't understand this. In order to keep getting fantastic products, somebody has to buy them. And they have to pay a decent price. A price that ensures a market.

Unlike HD DVD, the Blu-ray camp has several CE manufacturers willing to do business in the marketplace. That's where the competition would have come from and will continue to come from, if not from HD DVD. All the format war has done is prolong mass adoption, which has slowed the pace of genuine (not subsidized) price reductions. Sustainable price reduction is the key, not fire sales to knock a competing format on its keister.

The sooner one format goes away, the sooner we'll see sub-$100 players and everything else the non-early adopters crave.

[Luis_A51]

Originally Posted by qz3fwd

I see competition as a very good thing for the consumer, and if HD-DVD had never entered the market, I believe that we would still be seeing pre 1.0 profile players as the norm for around $1000 or more.

1. What price do you think would be the norm today, if HD-DVD didnt provide market pressure?

2. Do you think the BDA would have added PIP and other advanced interactivity functionality without this competition?

3. Does this competition ultimately benefit the consumer?

1) No. The PS3 came out at $600, and took a lot of sales from standalones. Therefore standalones have always had to compete partially with the PS3 for sales.

Add to the fact that the PS3 has dropped to $400 to compete with other consoles, theres no way BD standalone prices would still be at $1000.

Also, if there was only 1 format, then not only would they have sold more total players, but they would all be bluray players. Huge sales volumes make price cuts possible. So no, HDDVD wasnt "necessary"

2) Yeah its true, they probably wouldnt have added pip. But no one would have noticed, so that point is essentially moot.

3) It did....to a point. But player prices would only be maybe slightly higher than they are now. And thats outweighed by the fact that consumers cannot get all high-def movies on a single format

You are the worst kind of troll

[RichiPuppy]

My guess is the same, cause in the end it still has to compete with standard dvd.

[jorg]

compation is great up untill this cristams after this season then both formats suffer

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by jorg

compation is great up untill this cristams after this season then both formats suffer

I agree. This war brought major attention to both formats, caused price drops and really made everyone give it their all. But it's time for it to end as it's starting to devide everyone up which is just going to make both formats fail. And we don't want that... Freaken digital downloads trying to take over... yuck.

[SpikesBluBlooded]

Digital Downloads is already beginning to be the secondary battle-cry of some in the HD DVD camp. It's been stated many times before that this is the ultimate aim for Microsoft: keep both hi-def formats from mass adoption long enough to make digital downloads a viable alternative. I just don't see people wanting to purchase their movies digitally. Takes up way to much memory for a decent picture, and I can't imagine what the download times are...

Honey, mark the calendar for tomorrow night, I'm ordering that new movie that's out for download. Keep your fingers crossed that we don't lose power in the next several hours or that the computer doesn't freeze up (you know those PC's...)

[toocheezy]

Originally Posted by SpikesBluBlooded

Honey, mark the calendar for tomorrow night, I'm ordering that new movie that's out for download. Keep your fingers crossed that we don't lose power in the next several hours or that the computer doesn't freeze up (you know those PC's...)

lol. that is sooo true

[Clark Kent]

This meme that gets repeated by HD DVD fanboys on other forums is not entirely true. The PS3 is fighting for its life as a videogame console and its pricing is entirely due to competition with the Xbox 360 and the Wii. Sony didn't cut the PS3 to sale more Blu-rays(though in fact the price cut obviously has helped Blu-ray sales). The standalone players are a slightly different story. Since in some sense they compete with the PS3 as a BD player they would always be priced in some way correlating with the price of the PS3(except for high end players like the Pioneer).

If HD DVD had never existed I doubt much of the current pricing you see would be changed that much. I do believe that there wouldn't have been such a rush to add features like BD Profile 1.1 though. That clearly was a reactionary move to HD DVD. We would have gotten it, but much later in the product cycle.

[cartier]

Originally Posted by J6P

Unlike HD DVD, the Blu-ray camp has several CE manufacturers willing to do business in the marketplace. That's where the competition would have come from and will continue to come from, not from HD DVD. All the format war has done is prolong mass adoption, which has slowed the pace of genuine (not subsidized) price reductions. Sustainable price reduction is the key, not fire sales to knock a competing format on its keister.

The sooner one format goes away, the sooner we'll see sub-$100 players and everything else the non-early adopters crave.

Originally Posted by Luis_A51

Also, if there was only 1 format, then not only would they have sold more total players, but they would all be bluray players. Huge sales volumes make price cuts possible. So no, HDDVD wasnt "necessary"

Thank you, you are both correct with these comments. You have saved me from having to post my usual comments to these types of questions.

Simply put having two formats is not a competition it is a war, and in a war everybody looses, just one side is better off then their opponent at the end.

Genuine price reductions come from creating efficiencies, scaling production, etc. If HD DVD was not in the picture the desire for mass consumer adoption would be driving down price as CE tried to meet demand and differentiate their product from their fellow blu-ray competitors.

[Thomasbeau]

Couldn't standard DVD be considered major competition. Most of your average consumers are not going to pay $500+ for BD when a standard DVD player can cost as low as $30. In order for the format to progress pricing need to reach a consumer friendly level regardless if there is another HD platform out there. Otherwise, if HD-DVD dies next year, what's to stop the BD manufacturer's from raising prices for newer models. HDTV's are flying off the shelves now, but how great were they selling when a Plasma TV cost $10,000??

The general public can be very ignorant to cost versus quality. Most often the lower cost beats the better quality higher priced...

VHS vs Betamax
VHS vs Laserdisc
PC's vs Macintosh

DVD finally beat VHS when the price was in the range that the general consumer found acceptable. Chevy sells a ton more cars than Rolls Royce, but that doesn't make Chevy better. Without the right pricing, BD could remain a niche product forever.

[blindcat87]

I don't know why this topic keeps coming up. Those who discuss the difference between competition and a war are correct. No how many times red zealots use this arguing point, no matter how many times they proclaim that even if they loose it has been good for the market, the fact remains that a format war is not competition. The previous poster is exactly right. When a new format is introduced, the competition is the previous format and the various companies participating in the new format.

What a format war leads to is not good prices more quickly for the consumer, but artificial price reduction, and that is never good in any other form than a short sale or promotion. The sooner profitability is completely squeezed out of a format, the sooner CE companies start looking for the next format or product to keep a good stream of cash coming in.

So, no matter how anyone tries to spin it, a format war is not good for the consumer or the market, the longer it goes on the worse it is. The DVD/DivX war ended before it could do a whole lot of damage to the market. What would have been the results if good old Dick Sharp had been able to keep his pet project going for a few years?

We need this war over, the studios need this war over, the CEs need this war over, and the retaillers need this war over. While the internet is not a total window of consumers, it is a pretty good snapshot and you can already see signs of battle fatigue anywhere you look. Desparate antics of red zealots, BD fans jumping at shadows and buying into FUD and lie tactics they would have scoffed at not too long ago. I also think it is beginning to wear on the pros in this too. The response of journalists who get slammed after problems are found in their stories respond in a way that says that journalists are getting slammed by one or both sides regardless of how they report. We have heard from the insiders that retaillers are getting tired of the war. I think that the recent ham handed, almost caricatureistic antics of a certain VP at Universal say it all for battle fatigue on that end. I just don't think he would have been brain dead enough to pull that stunt a year ago, or at least if he did, it would have been done a lot more smoothly and less obbiously.

The red studios really need to take a hard look at all of this and think about it. If this drags on and on it is only going to get worse. I know that the red side really doesn't care about squeezing the profitability out of the hardware end. They only have one hardware manufacturer and some rebadgers who couldn't possibly care. But once that has been squeezed to the limit, the only where to go to fight with price cuts is software. Boy wouldn't that be a smart move. Add to this that as this goes on, consumers are going to have the knowledge of which particular companies are dragging this out ground into them deeper and deeper as time goes by. The next few months are going to dictate how these companies are viewed internally, externally by the industry, and by consumers.

The next gold mine, the chance to get back that lost revenue from the DVD slump is here, even a blind movie fan can see which is the better choice. I hope those trying to play both sides and playing other agendas are not allowed to choke this mine of with dull red dust until it is no longer viable.

I've been longing for stockholder revolts at Tosh or other companies dragging this thing out. But a retailler revolt would work too I would love to see the retaillers out there draw the line and tell MS and Tosh that they are tired of being forced to go along like some spoiled kids' abused toys when it is their future and their revenue streams on the line too.

Chris

[ArkGuy]

My "data" is purely anecdotal but every store I visited from Thanksgiving on carrying CE seemed to have "way more" (technical term) Blu-ray players than HD-DVD. And I'd be curious to know how many Sony 300/301 and PS3's were sold during those 4-5 weeks.

Also, having the Disney and/or Pixar catalog in the BR camp cannot be overstated. As the market expands to inclcude more folks who don't fit the early adopter profile, there is simply no HD-DVD counter to the 800 lb Mouse. Nothing.

And while it may not strike a huge blow in the format war, I can't wait for the revamped Lawrence of Arabia to be released. It may be the 2008 equivalent of Planet Earth, except there won't be a red version.