Blue Ray or HD-DVD (An introduction) - Blu-ray Forum

Bullseye · 09-25-2006, 08:24 PM

Hello people, Glad to be part of this fine forum. Apart from the headace of having to possibly upgrade my large collection of DVD's i am still undecided on which format to adopt. I'm leaning towards Blue Ray as I have always been a fan of Pioneer DVD players and it appears that they have chose BR as their route.

We here in Ireland will only start receiving BR and HD players towards the end of the year and the majority of LCD's and Plasmas are not at the standard 1080i or 1080p yet.

Apart from my love of Pioneer players what else does BR have going that HD-DVD doesn't.

Also a little annoyed that Sony has treated the EU like second class citizens in the delay on the SP3.

Anyway. Nice to be here.
Cheers
Robert.

JTK · 09-25-2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Apart from my love of Pioneer players what else does BR have going that HD-DVD doesn't.

90 percent studio support vs. HD-DVD's 40 percent.

HD-DVD has Universal studios as its lone exclusive studio. Universal puts out some pretty popular films, so you may want to check into that and see how you feel about it.

Beyond that, pretty much everything else is going to be coming out on both formats, for the most part.

Blu-Ray has some big time exclusive studios in their back pocket like Fox and the entire Disney conglomerate. Think about that. That means Buena Vista and everything else under that huge umbrella. We're not just talking Mickey Mouse cartoons here.

Longer term potential with the BD technology vs. HD-DVDs.

The real short answer is: HD-DVD is built off the existing DVD architecture while Blu-Ray is something completely new from the ground up.

Both formats can evolve to a certain point, but HD-DVD will hit a brick wall long before Blu-Ray ever does.

Blu-Ray is the kind of technology that can easily be current 10 years from now. I'm not so sure HD-DVD can be.

BD had some early picture quality issues with certain discs that are well on the way to being eliminated.

Blu-Ray has hardware support and choices whereas HD-DVD simply has Toshiba or nothing, at present.

So basically, you have a slowly but surely ascending giant backed by 90 percent studio support and hardware choices from most of the leading CE companies by year's end.

That's what Blu-Ray gets you.

Quote:

Also a little annoyed that Sony has treated the EU like second class citizens in the delay on the SP3.

The PS3, yes.

However, isn't it pretty typical (albeit stupid) for the EU to usually come in late when these consoles launch? I feel like that's been going on for as long as I can remember: You all always get the games and the hardware later than everyone else.

Quote:

Anyway. Nice to be here.
Cheers
Robert.

Have fun!

EDIT: https://www.blu-ray.com/

^^ Cheap plug here, but seriously: That's our main page here and it's awesome. Loaded with lots of information. I guarantee you just about any question you have is probably answered and covered way better than what I did here.

Bullseye · 09-25-2006, 08:51 PM

Thanks for the quick reply JTK. I like your logic on the Blue Ray technology and I also like the fact that some of the better manufacturers have thrown their hat in with BR.

Will there be an upgrade from Mpeg2?
And is it true that some of the BR manuf's may actually produce neautral players in 2007?

JTK · 09-25-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Will there be an upgrade from Mpeg2?

Already starting to see some VC-1 discs being talked about and circulated. Still hearing talk about some MPEG4/AVC down the road. There's some folks around here that know a lot more on this than I currently do.

It's not all going to be confined to MPEG2 by a longshot. What MPEG2 is coming out is already being improved upon considerably.

If you can get at least D-VHS MPEG2 quality you're soaring!

Quote:

And is it true that some of the BR manuf's may actually produce neautral players in 2007?

I doubt it.

The neutrals are waiting for the format war to end outright. At least that's what they say out in the open.

marzetta7 · 09-25-2006, 10:35 PM

Welcome to the forum Bullseye.

To add upon what JTK has already mentioned, is that Blu-ray buys you more storage--25 GB per layer as compared to HD DVD's 15 GB per layer.

Moreover, it gives you better durability, in my opinion, as Blu-ray discs employ a Durabis2 special protective coating (or some sort of Durabis2 coating equivalent). It is said (by TDK) that Durabis2 is 100 times more scratch resistant than regular DVDs, and well, considering that HD DVDs simply employ the same protective measures as DVD, well, Blu-ray looks to be more durable (disclaimer: we have yet to see definitive results of durability from the two--Blu-ray and HD DVD--though).

But aside from that, yeah, Blu-ray's 90% studio support, and the majority of support from the CE (Pioneer, Panasonic, Sharp, LG, Sony, Samsung, TDK, Philips etc.) and IT (Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, LiteOn, etc.) industries doesn't hurt.

I think you made the right choice!

BTBuck1 · 09-25-2006, 11:35 PM

another studio exclusive not mentioned in JTK's post was SOny pictures group, so if you like movies from Sony pictures, Columbia, tristar or MGM then you'll only see those on BD (unless they are tied in with universal) IE, columbia/Universals "The Rundown"

Key movies from the sony pictures group to look for:

-Spiderman 1,2 & 3

-Bad Boys 1 & 2

-The professional (leon)

-Underwolrd 1& 2

-Black hawk Down

And many many more....

I currently own HDDVD and plan on purchase of Blu Ray, you can see by my sig that I have been buying up blu discs in anticipation of the Sony Blu Ray player.

I enjoy HDDVD, but The player is glitchy (though not terrible) but occassionally will give you PC type hiccups being that it's basically a hometheatre computer.

I would reccomend if you have to make only one choice go with Blu Ray,
If you can get both and are a gamer..go the game system route with the HDDVD add on for xbox360 & the Ps3 and use them until prices plummet or a clear victor pulls ahead.

AV_Integrated · 09-26-2006, 02:26 AM

Blu-ray is very similar to HD-DVD in most aspects, the biggest differences between the two are as follows:

HD-DVD is much less expensive right now. This is the only thing is has going for it overall. For $500.00 you can get a entry level Toshiba HD-DVD player, and sometimes they are on sale for less. If you are buying RIGHT NOW and are on a tight budget - then it is worth considering.

Blu-ray has FAR more studio support - at about 90% to 50%. So, about nine out of every ten titles you want will likely be on Blu-ray. Only about half the titles you are likely to want will be on HD-DVD.

Blu-ray has FAR more industry support. For consumer electronics manufacturers HD-DVD only has Toshiba making players and Toshiba and RCA badging players... The RCA model being made by Toshiba. Blu-ray ONLY has a player out by Samsung right now, but by this Christmas it is expected that Panasonic, Sony, Pioneer, and others (perhaps) including LG, Sharp, and Philips may have players out. That's over half a dozen different companies confirmed with players coming to market.

Blu-ray has PS3 support native. From the cheaper ($500) PS3 to their nicer model, the PS3 gaming console will include Blu-ray disc and will be able to play movies from the game system. For those worried about a VHS/Beta format war, this game system gives both the great gaming AND a way to watch HD movies... Oh yeah, at a price that is comparible with the cheap HD-DVD player by itself!

HD-DVD has Microsoft and Intel support. Microsoft especially can possibly be a thorn in the side of all of this. They waited until it looked like HD-DVD was going to throw in the towel, then decided to back the format virtually guaranteeing a format war. Their involvement with HD-DVD is iffy at best, but it won't stop Microsoft from releasing a HD-DVD add-on drive for the X-Box 360 gaming system this Fall sometime. It may be interesting, but may not prove to be worthwhile.

Blu-ray currently has movies out in every format that it accepts including MPEG2, MPEG4 (AVC), and VC-1 (Windows Media). Disney films are using MPEG4 while Sony films are using MPEG2. Most Warner releases have been using VC-1. While early titles from Blu-ray received horrendous reviews, and rightfully so, the most recent releases are starting to get the highest marks for quality and performance. Newer releases should look better and better. Technically speaking, there is no reason why Blu-ray movies should look one bit worse than any HD-DVD releases - but the original Master movie must be pristine, which isn't always the case.

JimPullan · 09-26-2006, 01:03 PM

Hi Bullseye,

I hope you are enjoying this Forum. As you can see by the responses to your post there are several gifted, intelligent people here, willing to depart those golden nuggets of truth on subjects we're all interested in.

From time to time we do have intense dialogue and discussion, which is quite insightful. Sometime we'll go a little to far in our convictions and fuel a discussion with emotions rather than logic, of which I am guilty. Overall you'll find this Forum just what you've been looking for. Enjoy its benefits !

Jim

georgir · 09-26-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Also a little annoyed that Sony has treated the EU like second class citizens in the delay on the SP3.

StayPatient3?

JTK · 09-26-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgir

StayPatient3?

Yup.

thunderhawk · 09-26-2006, 04:59 PM

That's one of the downsides of living in the EU that is... Always getting things later.
I do wonder why. It's not that we don't have the money to purchase... Although, generally, I believe most people here are more conservative when in somes to purchasing new technologies.

But still...

Bullseye · 09-26-2006, 07:17 PM

Hi guys thanks for the warm welcome. From what i have read BR is certainly the way to go but hopefully the delays caused by Sony don't let this great tech advancment pass it by. Remember Beta and VHS war. They had the better player Beta yet it still lost. I hope this will not be a repeat.

theknub · 09-26-2006, 09:29 PM

bullseye welcome.

just a quick comment. beta was a sony only technology much like hd-dvd is toshiba only (for comparison purposes obviously). the BDA may be spearheaded by sony, but is a much larger entity made of almost all of the CE companies and studios. to compare the beta war to this is like comparing hitler and world peace. it just doesn't work.

Brian · 09-30-2006, 02:24 PM

Hi My name is Brian and have been trying to read a little about this Blue Ray and HD-DVD players as I want to get one sometime soon.

It looks like Blue Ray is in the lead and that they have alot of support.
But one of the factors I have to take into consideration for my purchase is price I could probaly easily get and HD DVD plus with an additional warranty easily for under $1,000 where as Blue Ray is going to be over $1,000.

I have seen the Blue Ray in action at Best Buy with a demo disc and movie 50First Dates and it was amazing but haven't seen anything by the HD DVD with my own eyes but have been told it is very nice.

Also I should go to Best Buy and Circuit City and check out what movies are available in both formats to see who has the most of what I like of course I like alot of movies action,horror,sci-fi.

So if anyone would like to add to aiding me into a descision feel free.

09-30-2006, 02:32 PM

Try here it is not even close to 1000 and its cheaper then the xa-1

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=31491

thunderhawk · 09-30-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

So if anyone would like to add to aiding me into a descision feel free.

Choose!

Blu-ray Disc Movies
BD: Available Now List
BD: Coming Soon List

HD DVD Movies
HD DVD: Available Now List
HD DVD: Coming Soon List

JTK · 09-30-2006, 03:05 PM

If you've waited this long, I'd wait a little longer until the PS3 and the other BD standalone players are out on the streets.

By that point, you'll see some nice, aggressive holiday sales and some other interesting quirks going on.

Then choose.

hmurchison · 09-30-2006, 05:40 PM

My recommendation is

PS3 $499 unit for Blu-Ray and
Toshiba HD-A2 for HD DVD

You cover all bases and both players offer network connectivity for some nifty future features. That's likely the route that I will take.

Eventually down the road if there is a universal player or the ability to make/buy a universal HTPC I'll go that route. Getting two HD players for a kilobuck isn't bad at all and you'll be able to play all HD blue laser movies on the planet.

zombie · 09-30-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmurchison

My recommendation is

PS3 $499 unit for Blu-Ray and
X-Box 360 with HD DVD add on

Fixed.

This way if one or both movie formats fail you're still left with a gaming system that will have new games becoming available for years to come.

Brian · 10-01-2006, 11:57 PM

hmurchison suggested the Toshiba HD A2 BB here has the A1 but not sure about the A2 I would have to stop in and look again.

Whats the difference between the A1 and A2?

Also CC has the RCA HDV5000 how is this player?

09-25-2006, 08:24 PM	#1
Bullseye Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Ireland Home Theater Gallery:24 4K collection:70 Blu-ray collection:760 Blu-ray reviews: 44	Blue Ray or HD-DVD (An introduction) Hello people, Glad to be part of this fine forum. Apart from the headace of having to possibly upgrade my large collection of DVD's i am still undecided on which format to adopt. I'm leaning towards Blue Ray as I have always been a fan of Pioneer DVD players and it appears that they have chose BR as their route. We here in Ireland will only start receiving BR and HD players towards the end of the year and the majority of LCD's and Plasmas are not at the standard 1080i or 1080p yet. Apart from my love of Pioneer players what else does BR have going that HD-DVD doesn't. Also a little annoyed that Sony has treated the EU like second class citizens in the delay on the SP3. Anyway. Nice to be here. Cheers Robert.

09-25-2006, 10:35 PM	#5
marzetta7 Special Member Member since:Feb 2006	Welcome to the forum Bullseye. To add upon what JTK has already mentioned, is that Blu-ray buys you more storage--25 GB per layer as compared to HD DVD's 15 GB per layer. Moreover, it gives you better durability, in my opinion, as Blu-ray discs employ a Durabis2 special protective coating (or some sort of Durabis2 coating equivalent). It is said (by TDK) that Durabis2 is 100 times more scratch resistant than regular DVDs, and well, considering that HD DVDs simply employ the same protective measures as DVD, well, Blu-ray looks to be more durable (disclaimer: we have yet to see definitive results of durability from the two--Blu-ray and HD DVD--though). But aside from that, yeah, Blu-ray's 90% studio support, and the majority of support from the CE (Pioneer, Panasonic, Sharp, LG, Sony, Samsung, TDK, Philips etc.) and IT (Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, LiteOn, etc.) industries doesn't hurt. I think you made the right choice! Last edited by marzetta7; 09-25-2006 at 10:43 PM.

09-26-2006, 01:03 PM	#8
JimPullan Senior Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Ocala, FL	Welcome to the Blu-Ray Forum Hi Bullseye, I hope you are enjoying this Forum. As you can see by the responses to your post there are several gifted, intelligent people here, willing to depart those golden nuggets of truth on subjects we're all interested in. From time to time we do have intense dialogue and discussion, which is quite insightful. Sometime we'll go a little to far in our convictions and fuel a discussion with emotions rather than logic, of which I am guilty. Overall you'll find this Forum just what you've been looking for. Enjoy its benefits ! Jim

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09-25-2006, 08:51 PM	#3
Bullseye Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Ireland Home Theater Gallery:24 4K collection:70 Blu-ray collection:760 Blu-ray reviews: 44	Thanks for the quick reply JTK. I like your logic on the Blue Ray technology and I also like the fact that some of the better manufacturers have thrown their hat in with BR. Will there be an upgrade from Mpeg2? And is it true that some of the BR manuf's may actually produce neautral players in 2007?

09-25-2006, 11:35 PM	#6
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	another studio exclusive not mentioned in JTK's post was SOny pictures group, so if you like movies from Sony pictures, Columbia, tristar or MGM then you'll only see those on BD (unless they are tied in with universal) IE, columbia/Universals "The Rundown" Key movies from the sony pictures group to look for: -Spiderman 1,2 & 3 -Bad Boys 1 & 2 -The professional (leon) -Underwolrd 1& 2 -Black hawk Down And many many more.... I currently own HDDVD and plan on purchase of Blu Ray, you can see by my sig that I have been buying up blu discs in anticipation of the Sony Blu Ray player. I enjoy HDDVD, but The player is glitchy (though not terrible) but occassionally will give you PC type hiccups being that it's basically a hometheatre computer. I would reccomend if you have to make only one choice go with Blu Ray, If you can get both and are a gamer..go the game system route with the HDDVD add on for xbox360 & the Ps3 and use them until prices plummet or a clear victor pulls ahead.

09-26-2006, 02:26 AM	#7
AV_Integrated Senior Member Member since:Jan 2005	Blu-ray is very similar to HD-DVD in most aspects, the biggest differences between the two are as follows: HD-DVD is much less expensive right now. This is the only thing is has going for it overall. For $500.00 you can get a entry level Toshiba HD-DVD player, and sometimes they are on sale for less. If you are buying RIGHT NOW and are on a tight budget - then it is worth considering. Blu-ray has FAR more studio support - at about 90% to 50%. So, about nine out of every ten titles you want will likely be on Blu-ray. Only about half the titles you are likely to want will be on HD-DVD. Blu-ray has FAR more industry support. For consumer electronics manufacturers HD-DVD only has Toshiba making players and Toshiba and RCA badging players... The RCA model being made by Toshiba. Blu-ray ONLY has a player out by Samsung right now, but by this Christmas it is expected that Panasonic, Sony, Pioneer, and others (perhaps) including LG, Sharp, and Philips may have players out. That's over half a dozen different companies confirmed with players coming to market. Blu-ray has PS3 support native. From the cheaper ($500) PS3 to their nicer model, the PS3 gaming console will include Blu-ray disc and will be able to play movies from the game system. For those worried about a VHS/Beta format war, this game system gives both the great gaming AND a way to watch HD movies... Oh yeah, at a price that is comparible with the cheap HD-DVD player by itself! HD-DVD has Microsoft and Intel support. Microsoft especially can possibly be a thorn in the side of all of this. They waited until it looked like HD-DVD was going to throw in the towel, then decided to back the format virtually guaranteeing a format war. Their involvement with HD-DVD is iffy at best, but it won't stop Microsoft from releasing a HD-DVD add-on drive for the X-Box 360 gaming system this Fall sometime. It may be interesting, but may not prove to be worthwhile. Blu-ray currently has movies out in every format that it accepts including MPEG2, MPEG4 (AVC), and VC-1 (Windows Media). Disney films are using MPEG4 while Sony films are using MPEG2. Most Warner releases have been using VC-1. While early titles from Blu-ray received horrendous reviews, and rightfully so, the most recent releases are starting to get the highest marks for quality and performance. Newer releases should look better and better. Technically speaking, there is no reason why Blu-ray movies should look one bit worse than any HD-DVD releases - but the original Master movie must be pristine, which isn't always the case.

09-26-2006, 04:59 PM	#11
thunderhawk Moderator Member since:Jul 2004 Location:Belgium	That's one of the downsides of living in the EU that is... Always getting things later. I do wonder why. It's not that we don't have the money to purchase... Although, generally, I believe most people here are more conservative when in somes to purchasing new technologies. But still...

09-26-2006, 07:17 PM	#12
Bullseye Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Ireland Home Theater Gallery:24 4K collection:70 Blu-ray collection:760 Blu-ray reviews: 44	Hi guys thanks for the warm welcome. From what i have read BR is certainly the way to go but hopefully the delays caused by Sony don't let this great tech advancment pass it by. Remember Beta and VHS war. They had the better player Beta yet it still lost. I hope this will not be a repeat.

09-26-2006, 09:29 PM	#13
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	bullseye welcome. just a quick comment. beta was a sony only technology much like hd-dvd is toshiba only (for comparison purposes obviously). the BDA may be spearheaded by sony, but is a much larger entity made of almost all of the CE companies and studios. to compare the beta war to this is like comparing hitler and world peace. it just doesn't work.

09-30-2006, 02:24 PM	#14
Brian New Member Member since:Sep 2006	Hi My name is Brian and have been trying to read a little about this Blue Ray and HD-DVD players as I want to get one sometime soon. It looks like Blue Ray is in the lead and that they have alot of support. But one of the factors I have to take into consideration for my purchase is price I could probaly easily get and HD DVD plus with an additional warranty easily for under $1,000 where as Blue Ray is going to be over $1,000. I have seen the Blue Ray in action at Best Buy with a demo disc and movie 50First Dates and it was amazing but haven't seen anything by the HD DVD with my own eyes but have been told it is very nice. Also I should go to Best Buy and Circuit City and check out what movies are available in both formats to see who has the most of what I like of course I like alot of movies action,horror,sci-fi. So if anyone would like to add to aiding me into a descision feel free.

09-30-2006, 02:32 PM	#15
kevinca1 Guest	Try here it is not even close to 1000 and its cheaper then the xa-1 http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=31491

09-30-2006, 03:05 PM	#17
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	If you've waited this long, I'd wait a little longer until the PS3 and the other BD standalone players are out on the streets. By that point, you'll see some nice, aggressive holiday sales and some other interesting quirks going on. Then choose.

09-30-2006, 05:40 PM	#18
hmurchison Banned Member since:Aug 2004 Location:Seaattle	My recommendation is PS3 $499 unit for Blu-Ray and Toshiba HD-A2 for HD DVD You cover all bases and both players offer network connectivity for some nifty future features. That's likely the route that I will take. Eventually down the road if there is a universal player or the ability to make/buy a universal HTPC I'll go that route. Getting two HD players for a kilobuck isn't bad at all and you'll be able to play all HD blue laser movies on the planet.

10-01-2006, 11:57 PM	#20
Brian New Member Member since:Sep 2006	hmurchison suggested the Toshiba HD A2 BB here has the A1 but not sure about the A2 I would have to stop in and look again. Whats the difference between the A1 and A2? Also CC has the RCA HDV5000 how is this player?

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