SDR vs.HDR - Blu-ray Forum

fredreed · 05-14-2016, 12:13 PM

I have heard that many people don't like HDR and ended having to turn It off because the picture quality wasn't that great. So which is better SDR or HDR?

GC Riot · 05-14-2016, 12:56 PM

Technically, HDR IS better, that is just fact. It allows for greater colour depth and higher levels of contrast.
Whether you like how looks it or not however, that is a completely different question, and that is highly subjective.

fredreed · 05-14-2016, 01:12 PM

I mean I have a 4k TV but it's a 2014 model from LG which won't support HDR so I was wondering If a TV with HDR is better or not? It's the 55UB8500 unit and according to LG It will not add HDR support to It.

Vashetti · 05-14-2016, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredreed

I mean I have a 4k TV but it's a 2014 model from LG which won't support HDR so I was wondering If a TV with HDR is better or not? It's the 55UB8500 unit and according to LG It will not add HDR support to It.

Yes, you're missing out on a portion of the UHD Blu-ray spec, and Netflix/Amazon, etc. streams that support HDR

fredreed · 05-14-2016, 03:09 PM

I mean you can still play UHD movies on a 4K blu Ray player without HDR support right I mean you don't really need it to play them.

Deciazulado · 05-14-2016, 06:08 PM

I think the main problem is people trying to watch a High dynamic Range image in a Standard dynamic Range display. Somewhat similar to listening to Telarc's Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture in a boom box and expecting it to blow you away, and the 4" speakers can't. If the display has 10-12 f/stops real range and the image is designed for optimal viewing in a 15 f/stops range it exceeds the capability of the display and some of it will be compromised/out of bounds/distorted from what it should be seen, vs an SDR disc where that has been taken into account with and made to fit into that range/displays in the best, most visually pleasing way.

James Freeman · 05-14-2016, 07:41 PM

By SDR vs HDR I will assume you compare 709 Gamma 2.2 100nit HD, vs 2020 ST.2084 10,000nit UHD.
In this case SDR can't be better than HDR for the simple reason that SDR can be contained inside HDR.
Think of HDR as an extension of SDR in brightness, color volume and resolution.
Anything you can paint on an SDR canvas you can paint 1:1 on the HDR canvas and much much MUCH more.

Going backwards by shrinking, compressing or cutting something much bigger into a smaller container and judging the results by that is a big mistake in your part.
No matter how to turn it, you can't justify HDR->SDR conversion as being better than HDR->HDR.
I don't know the reason why people turn off HDR on their HDR TVs but it definitely not because of "picture quality".

EDIT:
I see, you have a UHD non-HDR HDMI 2.0 TV.
Your option is to pick a UHD Player that does the HDR to SDR, P3 to 709 conversion reasonably well.

fredreed · 05-14-2016, 10:24 PM

What about the new Samsung 4K blu Ray player. I heard that some people like myself don't have a HDR 4K TV and the Samsung 4K Blu Ray player played the UHD movies just fine. Is that true. How does the Samsung 4K blu Ray player handle going from HDR to SDR?

ronboster · 05-14-2016, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredreed

What about the new Samsung 4K blu Ray player. I heard that some people like myself don't have a HDR 4K TV and the Samsung 4K Blu Ray player played the UHD movies just fine. Is that true. How does the Samsung 4K blu Ray player handle going from HDR to SDR?

Samsung doesn't allow for turning off the HDR and sending an SDR signal....panasonic can do that

You can add an HD Fury integral in the loop to force an SDR signal.

Ron

FilmFreakosaurus · 05-15-2016, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredreed

What about the new Samsung 4K blu Ray player. I heard that some people like myself don't have a HDR 4K TV and the Samsung 4K Blu Ray player played the UHD movies just fine. Is that true. How does the Samsung 4K blu Ray player handle going from HDR to SDR?

It takes some display and player tweaking because it seems to do a relatively poor job with the HDR to SDR conversion with some clipping. This is what Stacey Spears seemed to believe as well.

In this respect, the Panny is better, but it costs quite a bit more and is not expected in the States for another few months... maybe August/September.

GeneD5 · 05-15-2016, 12:34 AM

HDR is better - all day, every day, every time. Freaking eye candy with the right content.

Deciazulado · 05-15-2016, 12:58 AM

You can dial down the Contrast setting in the User mode on the Samsung player so that highlights don't clip (But the image of course gets dimmer the more you dial down)

James Freeman · 05-15-2016, 05:45 AM

Look here:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=99

d514 · 05-15-2016, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronboster

Samsung doesn't allow for turning off the HDR and sending an SDR signal....panasonic can do that

You can add an HD Fury integral in the loop to force an SDR signal.

Ron

If the TV doesn't support HDR the Samsung player converts HDR to SDR. There is just no option to force the player to send a SDR signal to a HDR capable TV.

TwoDogKnight · 05-16-2016, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredreed

I mean I have a 4k TV but it's a 2014 model from LG which won't support HDR so I was wondering If a TV with HDR is better or not? It's the 55UB8500 unit and according to LG It will not add HDR support to It.

I have an LG 65UF8500 and the Samsung UHD player. I posted in another thread about this. I can tell you for certain that comparing the color quality of the Mad Max blu-ray to the 4k/HDR disc, the HDR on our non HDR TVs pretty much mutes the colors to a point where you will want to kick a hole in your tv. The blu-ray on the other hand, has phenomenal colors and will make you want to invite all your neighbors over to show it off. Adjusting the brightness/colors/whatever does nothing to alleviate it with that movie.

However, it may be movie dependent. Last week I went out and purchased Deadpool 4K/HDR and the colors are not really muted at all. I simply had to bump the brightness up about 20 points to match what the blu-ray looked like. And the resolution difference on the 4K disc made the blu-ray look really poor in comparison. So I was able to enjoy that movie 110% satisfied. Mad Max/4K I can not watch at all without longing for the blu-ray.

jasonwitzke1 · 02-24-2017, 02:20 PM

Hello everyone, I'm new to this. I've got the equipment referenced above (The Sony 4K blu ray player will be here on 2/28/17) and I just realized that although I have a 4K UHD TV it does not have HDR. Is this combination going to be a bad idea?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

FilmFreakosaurus · 02-24-2017, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonwitzke1

Hello everyone, I'm new to this. I've got the equipment referenced above (The Sony 4K blu ray player will be here on 2/28/17) and I just realized that although I have a 4K UHD TV it does not have HDR. Is this combination going to be a bad idea?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Well, depending on how old and what model the TV is, you may not have wide color gamut reproduction either.

HDR and WCG are essential parts of the UHD experience. Save your coins and look at a 2017 model OLED from LG or Sony.

elwaylite · 02-24-2017, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneD5

HDR is better - all day, every day, every time. Freaking eye candy with the right content.

I agree with this now, when I had my other HDR display that did not do it well, and could not be calibrated, I felt the opposite and preferred SDR 2020.

There are so many things going on right now when someone says they dont like UHD/HDR.

Some fault lies with the way the movie was done
Some fault lies with the lack of a properly calibrated display (by a pro)
Some fault lies in the display being used just plain sucking

Bmoney003 · 02-24-2017, 05:11 PM

i havent seen a correct response yet in this thread...

SDR/HDR has NOTHING to do with color or resolution

it the difference between peak brightness and peak blackness....

most TV's and ALL PJ's cannot properly reproduce the nits to correctly display the HDR (which shows up as a very dark picture) so the best thing to do is STRIP the HDR flag metadata so the set can STILL use the WCG (better colors) and get the higher resolution...

its not a which is better argument...its which is better for your display and setup

HeatEquation · 02-24-2017, 05:20 PM

There's definitely some great 4K SDR content out there. Narcos and Better Call Saul (shot in 5K and 6K respectively), Medici: Master of Florence, numerous YouTube videos, etc. But on a 1000+ nit HDR display, nothing beats a great HDR video. Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk on a proper HDR TV is easily the best home video experience to date.

05-14-2016, 12:13 PM	#1
fredreed Senior Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	SDR vs.HDR I have heard that many people don't like HDR and ended having to turn It off because the picture quality wasn't that great. So which is better SDR or HDR?

05-14-2016, 01:12 PM	#3
fredreed Senior Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	I mean I have a 4k TV but it's a 2014 model from LG which won't support HDR so I was wondering If a TV with HDR is better or not? It's the 55UB8500 unit and according to LG It will not add HDR support to It. Last edited by fredreed; 05-14-2016 at 01:35 PM.

05-14-2016, 07:41 PM	#7
James Freeman Senior Member Member since:Oct 2013	By SDR vs HDR I will assume you compare 709 Gamma 2.2 100nit HD, vs 2020 ST.2084 10,000nit UHD. In this case SDR can't be better than HDR for the simple reason that SDR can be contained inside HDR. Think of HDR as an extension of SDR in brightness, color volume and resolution. Anything you can paint on an SDR canvas you can paint 1:1 on the HDR canvas and much much MUCH more. Going backwards by shrinking, compressing or cutting something much bigger into a smaller container and judging the results by that is a big mistake in your part. No matter how to turn it, you can't justify HDR->SDR conversion as being better than HDR->HDR. I don't know the reason why people turn off HDR on their HDR TVs but it definitely not because of "picture quality". EDIT: I see, you have a UHD non-HDR HDMI 2.0 TV. Your option is to pick a UHD Player that does the HDR to SDR, P3 to 709 conversion reasonably well. Last edited by James Freeman; 05-14-2016 at 07:55 PM.

05-15-2016, 05:45 AM	#13
James Freeman Senior Member Member since:Oct 2013	Look here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=99 Last edited by James Freeman; 05-15-2016 at 07:00 AM.

02-24-2017, 02:20 PM	#16
jasonwitzke1 New Member Member since:Feb 2017	hdr to sdr conversion on Sony UBP-X800 while watching on LG 65UB9800 Hello everyone, I'm new to this. I've got the equipment referenced above (The Sony 4K blu ray player will be here on 2/28/17) and I just realized that although I have a 4K UHD TV it does not have HDR. Is this combination going to be a bad idea? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

05-14-2016, 12:56 PM	#2
GC Riot Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Gothenburg, Sweden 4K collection:198 Blu-ray collection:472 DVD collection:21 Trading Score:37	Technically, HDR IS better, that is just fact. It allows for greater colour depth and higher levels of contrast. Whether you like how looks it or not however, that is a completely different question, and that is highly subjective.

05-14-2016, 03:09 PM	#5
fredreed Senior Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	I mean you can still play UHD movies on a 4K blu Ray player without HDR support right I mean you don't really need it to play them.

05-14-2016, 06:08 PM	#6
Deciazulado Site Manager Top contributor Member since:Aug 2006 Location:USiberia Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:1160 Blu-ray collection:7047 DVD collection:4045	I think the main problem is people trying to watch a High dynamic Range image in a Standard dynamic Range display. Somewhat similar to listening to Telarc's Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture in a boom box and expecting it to blow you away, and the 4" speakers can't. If the display has 10-12 f/stops real range and the image is designed for optimal viewing in a 15 f/stops range it exceeds the capability of the display and some of it will be compromised/out of bounds/distorted from what it should be seen, vs an SDR disc where that has been taken into account with and made to fit into that range/displays in the best, most visually pleasing way.

05-14-2016, 10:24 PM	#8
fredreed Senior Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	What about the new Samsung 4K blu Ray player. I heard that some people like myself don't have a HDR 4K TV and the Samsung 4K Blu Ray player played the UHD movies just fine. Is that true. How does the Samsung 4K blu Ray player handle going from HDR to SDR?

05-15-2016, 12:34 AM	#11
GeneD5 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Feb 2008 4K collection:244 Blu-ray collection:246 Trading Score:168	HDR is better - all day, every day, every time. Freaking eye candy with the right content.

05-15-2016, 12:58 AM	#12
Deciazulado Site Manager Top contributor Member since:Aug 2006 Location:USiberia Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:1160 Blu-ray collection:7047 DVD collection:4045	You can dial down the Contrast setting in the User mode on the Samsung player so that highlights don't clip (But the image of course gets dimmer the more you dial down)

02-24-2017, 05:11 PM	#19
Bmoney003 Expert Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Nov 2012 Location:No. providence, RI Home Theater Gallery:28 Blu-ray collection:480 Digital collection:2 Trading Score:179	i havent seen a correct response yet in this thread... SDR/HDR has NOTHING to do with color or resolution it the difference between peak brightness and peak blackness.... most TV's and ALL PJ's cannot properly reproduce the nits to correctly display the HDR (which shows up as a very dark picture) so the best thing to do is STRIP the HDR flag metadata so the set can STILL use the WCG (better colors) and get the higher resolution... its not a which is better argument...its which is better for your display and setup

02-24-2017, 05:20 PM	#20
HeatEquation Banned Member since:Jan 2017	There's definitely some great 4K SDR content out there. Narcos and Better Call Saul (shot in 5K and 6K respectively), Medici: Master of Florence, numerous YouTube videos, etc. But on a 1000+ nit HDR display, nothing beats a great HDR video. Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk on a proper HDR TV is easily the best home video experience to date.

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