The Boy And The Heron

[nyaa]

Just saw it this evening-it's going on my list of Ghibli films that I'll never watch again. It was disjointed and hard to follow mainly because it was so boring. What I won't watch-Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, Pom Poko and Ponyo. I'm not the biggest fan of Miyazaki but he's done some good stuff over the years.

[nagpo]

I posted this in the Ghibli thread but i'll repost my thoughts here:

Surprised about the reception it's getting here. I really loved this movie. I think it's much better than The Wind Rises, his previous movie. This is one of those movies where it warrants multiple viewings because there are a lot of themes - obviously the pelicans very much represented the Japanese during that era. As previously mentioned, there are a lot of allegories.

But I think the more surface story is good as well. It's a coming of age story about overcoming grief and coming to terms with death.

[Show spoiler]
One of the points that I was somewhat confused with was when he finds his aunt/step-mother and he tries to get her to return with him but she says she hates him and rejects him. I was a little confused here and I think her reasoning was poorly told by miyazaki. But I think she began to resent him as much as mohito resented her. Although she was trying her best as his new mother, he wasn't making it easy and so she began to resent the situation. Which was partly why it was so easy for her granduncle to spirit her away - his motive was to get mohito to take over the fantastical realm which he had so perverted with his malice.

Anyways, tell me what you think.

This is a keystone ghibli movie and if they stop here ghibli would end on a really good note. Not that dud earwig. But I know Miyazaki is at it again (both of them I think). So let's see how things go from here! The future is looking bright if they can keep the quality at this level.

[nyaa]

I did something I rarely do and saw the movie a 2nd time, it's not a bad movie but what I think happened here was that Miyazaki was channeling Shinkai. I remember when Shinkai made Children Who Chase Lost Voices and he was accused of channeling Miyazaki, this movie reminded me more of Shinkai than Miyazaki. A lot of the events could have been lifted from Your Name and Suzume and repurposed for this movie.

[professorwho]

[Show spoiler]The first two thirds are a Malick-esque character driven arthouse film, while the last third is a narrative driven version of the same film. It's a jarring shift, albeit not unfamiliar to Miyazaki (see Totoro and Kiki). It's a fantastic film in spite of said issues, though.

[Tylerfan]

Golden Globes:

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/s...00424310133147

Originally Posted by Discussing Film

Golden Globe nominees for Best Original Score:

• Poor Things
• Oppenheimer
• The Boy and The Heron
• The Zone of Interest
• Across the Spider-Verse
• Killers of the Flower Moon

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/s...01562468102585

Originally Posted by Discussing Film

Golden Globe nominees for Best Animated Film:

• The Super Mario Bros Movie
• Suzume
• Wish
• Across the Spider-Verse
• The Boy and The Heron
• Elemental

See the full nominees list: https://discussingfilm.net/2023/12/1...inations-list/

[Ajc228]

Originally Posted by professorwho

[Show spoiler]The first two thirds are a Malick-esque character driven arthouse film, while the last third is a narrative driven version of the same film. It's a jarring shift, albeit not unfamiliar to Miyazaki (see Totoro and Kiki). It's a fantastic film in spite of said issues, though.

I don’t disagree with this read but I wish Miyazaki had picked a lane instead of trying to do both. This is part of the reason it felt disjointed to me. I’m not entirely certain but I thought I read something about major changes to the story as it went through the production. I thought it initially was going to be more about feudal Japan but perhaps I’m misremembering early press releases about it.

[Peach Boy]

Originally Posted by nagpo

I posted this in the Ghibli thread but i'll repost my thoughts here:

Surprised about the reception it's getting here. I really loved this movie. I think it's much better than The Wind Rises, his previous movie. This is one of those movies where it warrants multiple viewings because there are a lot of themes - obviously the pelicans very much represented the Japanese during that era. As previously mentioned, there are a lot of allegories.

But I think the more surface story is good as well. It's a coming of age story about overcoming grief and coming to terms with death.

[Show spoiler]
One of the points that I was somewhat confused with was when he finds his aunt/step-mother and he tries to get her to return with him but she says she hates him and rejects him. I was a little confused here and I think her reasoning was poorly told by miyazaki. But I think she began to resent him as much as mohito resented her. Although she was trying her best as his new mother, he wasn't making it easy and so she began to resent the situation. Which was partly why it was so easy for her granduncle to spirit her away - his motive was to get mohito to take over the fantastical realm which he had so perverted with his malice.

Anyways, tell me what you think.

This is a keystone ghibli movie and if they stop here ghibli would end on a really good note. Not that dud earwig. But I know Miyazaki is at it again (both of them I think). So let's see how things go from here! The future is looking bright if they can keep the quality at this level.

I agree with your take comparing this to The Wind Rises, but I'm also way more down on that movie than most people. That was a really beautiful film that left me feeling cold enough that I've never rewatched it, even though I have the steelbook sitting on my shelf waiting...

I think your spoiler-hidden take is ultimately correct as well.

[Show spoiler]His coldness and rejection of her is a constant reminder to her of a) his resentment, b) her "failure" as a stepmother, c) her own sister's death. Lashing out there isn't unreasonable.

I wonder if people's feel for this movie could be dependent on their relationship to grief and the recency of that grief. I've had two close family members die in the past three years, so the themes felt right at home in my head and heart. Like the movie says,

[Show spoiler]"you'll forget in time," so maybe this doesn't sit as well if you've forgotten...

[nagpo]

Originally Posted by Peach Boy

I agree with your take comparing this to The Wind Rises, but I'm also way more down on that movie than most people. That was a really beautiful film that left me feeling cold enough that I've never rewatched it, even though I have the steelbook sitting on my shelf waiting...

I think your spoiler-hidden take is ultimately correct as well.

[Show spoiler]His coldness and rejection of her is a constant reminder to her of a) his resentment, b) her "failure" as a stepmother, c) her own sister's death. Lashing out there isn't unreasonable.

I wonder if people's feel for this movie could be dependent on their relationship to grief and the recency of that grief. I've had two close family members die in the past three years, so the themes felt right at home in my head and heart. Like the movie says,

[Show spoiler]"you'll forget in time," so maybe this doesn't sit as well if you've forgotten...

Ah, very interesting. I think the fact that the movie makes one think or feel makes it a worthwhile film. Unlike some Ghibli films like Earwhig.

Also, sorry about your loss.

[Ehnahre]

I really enjoyed it but I think it's one I'll need to see again to fully parse; gorgeous as always, both visually and musically, though it's definitely gone back to less overt storytelling. It does feel like an indulgent movie, but whether or not that's good to you is definitely personal preference.
The movie feels like an old man who either feels he can't retire or doesn't actually want to indulging in things he really likes (except no airplanes for some reason; he loves airplanes) without really any intention of trying to sand down the edges for audiences, which is probably why I enjoyed it as much as I did. Disjointed certainly, and almost esoteric, but mostly as a vehicle to showcase visual he wants to show.
The parakeets were great and I loved seeing them on screen.

[nyaa]

The Boy And The Heron and The Wind Rises have nothing in common but Miyazaki. They're completely different stories based on totally different universes. It's like comparing 2001-A Space Odyssey to Interstellar-they're both science fiction movies and deal with the future evolution of humanity but do it dramatically different ways.

[fred25_Ca]

Just came back from seeing it in theaters. Miyazaki is my favorite director and everything he worked on between Conan and Spirited Away are amongst some of my favorite tv shows and movies of all time. He changed my life when I discovered his movies as a teenager (25 years ago now woah!). I thought Howl's moving castle and Ponyo were fun movies but overall a noticeable dip in quality from what he used to make but The wind rises was the first movie he did I thought was bad. It left me bored.

One of the thing I love about Miyazaki (outside of his great imagination) is how well he uses the medium of animation. Everything always move and run in his movies, there's a constant sense of movement in his work. It's always exciting, even in more realistic movies like Totoro and Kiki. He's a genius of the medium.

He also usually leave most of his politics and overall grumpier attitude out of his work. He's talked about it multiple times in interviews, how he wants to convey simpler and more hopeful messages to kids (saving nature, war is bad, etc.). Suzuki had said he had to convince Miyazaki to make the Wind rises, since Miyazaki didn't think it was a good idea in the first place to make a movie so close to him. And imo, Miyazaki was right. The movie feels like the work of the grumpier side of Miyazaki. It's a cold movie and worst, it does the opposite of what Miyazaki excels at. It stagnates. Things are barely in movements. It had a slow and boring protagonist with no movements. I thought it was barely better than Tales from the earthsea and a sad way to end one of the greatest animated career in film history.

All of this to say my expectations were kept in check for the Boy and the Heron. I avoided all trailers, reviews and spoilers. I had no idea what I was getting into.

The first part made me think this was going to be similar to When Marnie was there, a more realistic movie set in our world with a sprinkles of fantasy. Closer to The wind rises and I was starting to dread this was going to disappoint me again. But then it went full on fantasy movie and my God did it make me happy. The last few weeks have been dreadful (my wife, the kids and I have all been terribly sick and it's been especially hard) but boy did Miyazaki's latest made me happy. It never quite reaches the high of his career and i'd put it more on par with Howl's moving castle (but higher than Ponyo and obviously The wind rises) but last night none of that mattered. The smile on my face was giant and for an hour at least I was so happy.

It took a new Toho Japanese Godzilla movie and Miyazaki's latest to remind me I could still enjoy new movies coming out in theaters (most of everything i've seen this year has left me disappointed or just bored).

If Miyazaki never make another movie after this, I'd be ok with the Boy and the Heron being his last movie. It's a great way to end a career.

Even better, now i feel like going back and rewatching all of his older masterpieces with my two daughters (my four years old already love Totoro and especially Ponyo but also both Panda movies).

[nyaa]

Originally Posted by nagpo

Ah, very interesting. I think the fact that the movie makes one think or feel makes it a worthwhile film. Unlike some Ghibli films like Earwhig.

Also, sorry about your loss.

So what was so wrong with Earwig? I enjoyed the shit out of it.

[nagpo]

Originally Posted by nyaa

So what was so wrong with Earwig? I enjoyed the shit out of it.

It is generally considered a lackluster film. Even if you just looks at it's rotten tomato scores, metacritic, imdb, of both critics and fans, it's got a low score.

[fred25_Ca]

It's the only Ghibli I've never seen. The animation looked really bad and it kind of felt insulting to see cgi animation in a Ghibli movie. It's also directed by Goro Miyazaki who did the only truly bad Ghibli film (tales from the earthsea). He did kind of redeem himself with Up on Poppy Hill that was pretty good until the second half went into questionable territory haha.

So it's worth giving it a shot afterall?

[Member-571539]

How Do You Live?, a.k.a. The Boy and the Heron internationally, is Hayao Miyazaki’s 12th feature film and easily his most personal. A semi-autobiographical coming-of-age tale about devastating loss and what comes after. A beautifully languid picture that is also borderline an art film however it’s third act steers into a more conventional “MIYAZAKI” finale. Despite it’s faults, How Do You Live? is a stunningly display of artistry from Miyazaki Sr. who crafts his most poignant farewell since The Wind Rises.

out of 5 stars

[Tylerfan]

https://twitter.com/Schaffrillas/sta...27313331904890

Originally Posted by Schaffrillas

The more I sit with it, the worse of a title "The Boy and the Heron" gets. "How Do You Live" embodies the film’s message and it’s so much more evocative. The new title is just "Yep, there’s a boy and a heron in this movie!" Their bond isn’t even the main focus of the film ffs

[professorwho]

I think the international title is a reference to Le Roi et l'Oiseau (The King and the Mockingbird), which Miyazaki is a big fan of (much of Count Cagliostro's castle is ripped off borrowed from said film, as an example). That's just a guess on my part, though.

[Bolo Seagull]

This film was less than the sum of its parts for me. Nice music, visuals, atmosphere, as to be expected. Some fun characters, although Heron Man felt like too much of a poor man's Hoggle from 'Labrynth'. But nothing really connected or came together in a way that I found moving or meaningful.

Almost everything in the fantasy world just felt like endless expository scenes that didn't develop the character. He just keeps having other characters spout exposition about the rules of this world before ushering him to the next level. The tomboy fishmonger lady catches the fish, the happy cute sp*rm things eat the fish guts, the pelicans try to eat the sp*rms because they're trapped here and have nothing else to eat even though there was just a big fish, the fireworks lady protects the sp*rms be exploding away the pelicans yadda yadda yadda. Whatever. I can't help but draw comparisons to 'Spirited Away' and how we watched the hero take things in, learn to navigate this world, and ultimately assert a more confident loving mature version of herself. But this movie just felt like endless world-building without any purpose beyond worldbuilding.

From what I read here, I'm in the minority of you for loving 'The Wind Rises'. I really liked Miyazaki exploring some of his inner conflict, and I thought that movie perfectly realized some hard-to-express sentiments about accepting consequence and committing to the imperfectness of life.

I think the Great Uncle character had a lot of potential for Miyazaki to once again explore some of his inner conflict. This man who has locked himself in a world of dreams trying to achieve perfection, but is ultimately growing weary of the pursuit and wanting to pass on responsibility to a worthy successor seems like the character who best reflects where Miyazaki is at now. I think if this character and these themes had been driving this movie more than the world-building, it would've been a stronger film.

[nagpo]

Originally Posted by Tylerfan

https://twitter.com/Schaffrillas/sta...27313331904890

I agree. The title is awful. How Do You Live? Is actually the perfect title for this film

[nyaa]

Originally Posted by nagpo

It is generally considered a lackluster film. Even if you just looks at it's rotten tomato scores, metacritic, imdb, of both critics and fans, it's got a low score.

I enjoyed it, I don't agree with reviews very often.