Lilies (1996) Blu Ray from Strand Releasing

[mahenrytx]

I'm starting this thread because there is no existing one on the site, and I want to hear what others have to say about this release. I was thrilled when I saw that a "4K Restoration" was coming to blu ray, and I promptly pre-ordered the disc. This film is beautiful and deserved a proper upgrade from DVD.
I finally received the disc yesterday, after weeks of delay (which included emails directly to Strand about this and their apologies). I watched it last night, and all I can say is that I am VERY DISAPPOINTED. This is not a restoration at all. The film is littered with flaws: black specks, white specks, tears, stray hairs, etc. It looks terrible! It looks like they took a crappy old print and just scanned it at a higher resolution--which makes these flaws stand out all the more.
This is contrary to Strand's press release, which says the blu ray was made from "6k scan of a clean 35mm print of Lilies." This just cannot be. I will be writing Strand about this as well.
I'm honestly wondering if there was a mix up of some kind and the wrong files were sent to the factory for pressing the disc. But I wanted to post here to see if anyone else has received a copy and sees the same things I do. I will add some screenshots shortly, when I have time to make them. In the meantime, hoping to hear from other fans of this film and get to the bottom of this.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by mahenrytx

I'm starting this thread because there is no existing one on the site, and I want to hear what others have to say about this release. I was thrilled when I saw that a "4K Restoration" was coming to blu ray, and I promptly pre-ordered the disc. This film is beautiful and deserved a proper upgrade from DVD. I finally received the disc yesterday, after weeks of delay (which included emails directly to Strand about this and their apologies). I watched it last night, and all I can say is that I am VERY DISAPPOINTED. This is not a restoration at all. The film is littered with flaws: black specks, while specks, tears, stray hairs, etc. It looks terrible! It looks like they took a crappy old print and just scanned it at a higher resolution--which makes these flaws stand out all the more. This is contrary to Strand's press release, which says the blu ray was made from "6k scan of a clean 35mm print of Lilies." This just cannot be. I will be writing Strand about this as well. I'm honestly wondering if there was a mix up of some kind and the wrong files were sent to the factory for pressing the disc. But I wanted to post here to see if anyone else has received a copy and sees the same things I do. I will add some screenshots shortly, when I have time to make them. In the meantime, hoping to hear from other fans of this film and get to the bottom of this.

Sorry to hear that. Here is Strand's trailer for it, which can be viewed in 4K. Does this look about the same as what you saw on the BD?

Lilies | Official Trailer UHD | Strand Releasing - YouTube

[bookcase]

That trailer makes me want to watch this again, but the OP gives me pause.

[mahenrytx]

The scenes in the trailer go by too quickly to see the flaws. Again, I'll post pics later today. In the meantime, how can I can this thread to show as a Topic under Forum Discussions on the main page for this film? (Oddly, what shows there now is a topic on the film Lilies of the Field). https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Lilie.../361261/#Forum

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by mahenrytx

The scenes in the trailer go by too quickly to see the flaws. Again, I'll post pics later today. In the meantime, how can I can this thread to show as a Topic under Forum Discussions on the main page for this film? (Oddly, what shows there now is a topic on the film Lilies of the Field). https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Lilie.../361261/#Forum

I've submitted a database entry edit to make this the official thread. For future reference, you go to the database page of the movie, choose the Edit Movie link, and then go down to the Official forum link option

https://www.blu-ray.com/products/?p=...on=editproduct

[mahenrytx]

Thanks for the info on editing the page to link the forum.

OK, so here are some screenshots. The most egregious problems are evident in this beach scene late in the movie because the sky is yellow and empty, so blemishes stand out. This scene runs 30 seconds, from 1:21:12-1:21:42. I've captured the worst bits here, but if you run the whole clip or go frame by frame, you will see specks, scratches, water marks, tears, and hairs in nearly every frame. This is representative of what I see throughout the entire movie.

[mahenrytx]

A few more

Originally Posted by mahenrytx

Thanks for the info on editing the page to link the forum.

OK, so here are some screenshots. The most egregious problems are evident in this beach scene late in the movie because the sky is yellow and empty, so blemishes stand out. This scene runs 30 seconds, from 1:21:12-1:21:42. I've captured the worst bits here, but if you run the whole clip or go frame by frame, you will see specks, scratches, water marks, tears, and hairs in nearly every frame. This is representative of what I see throughout the entire movie.

[mahenrytx]

A different scene ... black dots on both actors' faces, black dots and smudges on actor's chest, scratches and hairs in other parts of the frame, etc. I could go on. This is just unacceptable in a so-called "restoration" of a film.

Originally Posted by mahenrytx

A few more

[mahenrytx]

OK, another update. I just dug up my old DVD copy of Lilies and checked the scenes I posted here as well as the rest of the film. NONE of these flaws are evident! None. In short, the DVD was made from a better source, which means it actually looks better than this new blu ray release, despite the lower resolution. I have emailed Strand Releasing with all of this info. Curious to hear the response.

[disco1979]

I watched some clips of my Blu-Ray - the beginning credits have lots of specks and dirt (and if I'm not mistaken you can hear the crackling on the soundtrack).

Later clips look better. It's hard to believe this is a 4K remaster, though.

[mahenrytx]

No word yet from Strand. Here's more. A few frames on the Bishop's face. Watch his forehead. This is an embarrassment.

[mahenrytx]

Giant black blotch suddenly appears on actor's chest. And again near his armpit.

[bookcase]

Clicking on some of those screenshots, I thought my computer screen was dirty. Wow. I removed this from my wishlist.

[mahenrytx]

Strand's response to my numerous emails:

Hi Matt,

We are aware of the quality of this restoration as it was QC'd internally after receiving delivery from John Greyson. The restoration was produced by a third party and was personally overseen by the director--all quality and restoration decisions have been approved by the director. The director used the best material and prints he had access to. It is our aim to follow the directors' decisions and assist in spreading accessibility to films like these, as due to the time, money and difficulty of maintenance required to preserve films, many such films are lost.

As we were not the original distributor of the film we are not responsible for and do not have access to the files used for the DVD release.

If you are not satisfied with your purchase you are welcome to pursue a refund where you purchased the film, but please note as we have mentioned before that we do not do direct sales.

So, I have now emailed Mr. Greyson directly

[Nitroes]

From what I can see, I think it looks very nice and the best it's going to look and it's a massive upgrade on the DVD.

It's diappointing for some people but you have to accept it or not buy and not support the rights' owners and distributor.

I'll buy it because like most DVDs they're unwatchable as our expectations have risen.

Also, I don't want it looking like Guardians of The Galaxy 6.




eBay

[Aunt Peg]

I got my copy last week - and yes massive upgrade from the DVD.

Haven't seen this film in years and hope we get more John Greyson on Blu Ray along with more back catalogue titles from Strand Releasing.

[mahenrytx]

What is the point of sharing images of the packaging?? That is not the concern here.

Originally Posted by Nitroes

From what I can see, I think it looks very nice and the best it's going to look and it's a massive upgrade on the DVD.

It's diappointing for some people but you have to accept it or not buy and not support the rights' owners and distributor.

I'll buy it because like most DVDs they're unwatchable as our expectations have risen.

Also, I don't want it looking like Guardians of The Galaxy 6.




eBay

[mahenrytx]

Update: John Greyson very kindly and generously responded to my email inquiry, and he offered some context to help explain the condition of the film. Here is part of what he said:

"I can share some context. Yes, I did oversee this 'restoration' (and I agree that term can sometimes conjure unrealistic expectations). Ours was done all out of pocket, on a wing and a prayer, pulling in favours, out of love for the film -- and we did the absolute best we could, with what we had to work with. This was made possible only through the generosity of our partners: wonderful TIFF Film Reference Library, who loaned us their print (which was really the only print we had any access to); amazing Queens Vulnerable Media Lab, who donated the scan; brilliant Alter Ego, who did a (limited) grade at a huge discount (they would have liked to do much more in terms of clean-up, etc, but there was no money for that); and Strand, who did the Blu Ray.

I'm very impressed by the work everyone did, given the context -- I think the film looks and sounds beautiful -- and agreed, it's not perfect, but still it's a wonderful new version of Lilies -- and most of all, we all owe a huge vote of thanks to Strand for pushing this restoration up the mountain, against the odds, and making Lilies (and so many other key queer titles) available to a new generation."

So, this is what we have. It's truly unfortunate that there wasn't a better print available or a larger budget to do more clean up work--especially on some of the more egregious problems that I captured in the screenshots. But I guess that's how it sometimes goes with arthouse cinema. Still happy to have a new release, despite the flaws. And truly appreciate that the director would take time to reply to some random, disgruntled film fan. He's a good man

[latehong]

Originally Posted by mahenrytx

What is the point of sharing images of the packaging?? That is not the concern here.

I understand you started this thread with a specific agenda (and thank you for that), but when the title for the thread is "Lilies (1996) Blu Ray from Strand Releasing," you shouldn't be surprised if anyone regards it as a place to talk about any topic on that specific release. That's the nature of a forum.

And I, for one, feel gratitude to Nitroes for confirming the existence of English SDH by showing the back cover.

[nwhite5]

I helped work with John on the re-release of this movie and wanted to add some further context for the visual flaws.

The original DVD release was based on a master made in the late 90s from the original negative which is why it is free of any degradation. Unfortunately now though, with the originally production company (Triptych) having folded and the rights having been bounced around through several corporate acquisitions and mergers, it's no longer known where the negative is, or if it even still exists. Unless someone digs it up somewhere by accident, it is presumed lost. So for this new scan, we used the only print that we were able to find which was the one that TIFF had in their collection.

And while I do think that this print was in overall pretty good condition (I've certainly seen ones with a lot more specks and scratches), the colours had faded and shifted over time. As such, with the incredibly limited budget we had, the decision was made that spending it on re-colour grading the film back to its original state was more important than painting out every little speck of dirt on the print. We were aware it was not ideal, but it simply seemed like the option that would benefit the film the most, and I don't regret that choice. It may not be clean, but it is at least presented now with both the colours and aspect ratio that were always intended. I did at the very least personally remove the reel change markers because I did find them too distracting, but other than that it was left as is.

For what it's worth, I did mention once on a call with Strand that referring to it as a "restoration" seemed like a bit of a stretch given the work we did, but I guess their marketing department was going to do what they were going to do. I definitely would have objected to referring to it as a "clean print" as well, but they never ran that by us. I didn't even know they were doing a blu-ray release until I saw it already in stores.

We do still have the raw 5K scans in DPX format that could be returned to and cleaned up if some wealthy benefactor ever decided to pay for that, but as it stands, I do predict that this is the best this film will likely ever look. It was quite a process just getting it done at all, and I know John is incredibly happy that it is just available for people to see again after years of falling into obscurity. And the fact that we were able to find a print at all was also incredibly lucky given that John also wants to do restorations of his films "The Law of Enclosures" and "The Making of Monsters" but has not been able to get prints of either and the only copies he personally has are on VHS. This is sadly the reality of Canadian independent filmmaking.

I did show this thread to John though and he appreciates that everyone is still interested in "Lilies" and want to see more of his works released. Strand also did a restoration of his film "Zero Patience" a few years ago that got some theatrical play but never got a blu-ray release, so if you want it then direct your requests to them!