surround sound format wars: AKA look for the Dolby label

[tripletopper]

For those who don't know: my main family movie room is SO asymmetric... (sounds like the start of a typical Match Game question) ... that the only way I can get good surround sound for more than one person is BLANK

I don't know if how many matches this will get, but: Gaming Surround Headsets.



1) Game machines > stand alones




The good news is than on PS3 automatically, and also on the Xbox One if I'm willing to shuffle the Atmos Headphone App settings, I can watch any movie in 3D sound, extremely well. (except the physically incompatible Laser Disc. If VHS and Beta can do pro Logic, and it's recorded as such, I can do VHS and Beta)

But upstairs, i have to look for the Dolby label.

Upstairs uses a stand alone 4K disc /3D disc/YouTube/Amazon Prime/other web app Player, and for about 70% of my discs, If I go with the default settting, then the movie will either be silent or sound like "Straight Stereo." (Not even as good as Pro Logic)

The ones that work are ether pre-5.1 material, and sound as good as it originally was, or is Dolby 5.1 or higher.

My LPCM movies, like Apocalypto, which only have a pre-Columbian American native language of some sort (in other words, no dialog in languages on 99% of DVD+ movies.) sounds like Straight Stereo, not even Pro Logic quality.

All the rest are DTS 5.1+ movies. All they output is ... silence... as long as the audio is English. Change to almost any foreign language, I can hear the noises, but have to turn on English subtitles to follow dialog.


2) Why am I the only one trying to start a surround format war?



Weren't there some Laser Discs back in the day that had separate Dolby and DTS versions, sometimes released simultaneously? It's kind of like DVD's widescreen and now called panned and scanned for 4x3 TVs. Why no choice today?

To most people, the DTS vs Dolby format wars sound like Coke Zero vs Pepsi Max, (was Coke vs Pepsi before I got diabetes. successfully dropped from A1C of 13.5 to 9.1 in the first 3 months with just a cola switch) a case of personal preference, but you'll take either, (and then there's the RC-10 of the group, LPCM. Again most people will take that)

But for me, in terms of format wars, DTS vs Dolby vs LPCM sounds more like ...Genesis vs Super Nintendo vs Turbo Grafx.



3) There were fierce Format wars in the past




In other words, this consumer's effect as fierce as the most significant format war since Atari 2600 + 5200 as a tag team vs Intellivision vs Colecovision Vs 4 other minor players (5 if you count 3rd party add-ons, and I'm not counting computers). There were dare-to-compare ads. Intellivision invented them for game console with George Plimpton ads. Coleco had a "Sorry Atari" ad abut playing Pac Man on a Colecovision.(with a 2600 add-on) and expandoing your system. And Atari had a 5200 an ad saying "Coleco can't play THIS (the native 5200 version) Pac-Man."

In other words, you either have to buy 3 separate systems to play all the games of the generation, hope there is a turncoat title with a future release, or just accept the fact that you can't get sound out of every movie. The closest thing in movies that came before was VHS vs Beta vs Laser Disc vs Selectavision. And since then, HD DVD vs Blu Ray.

Thankfully, unlike consoles, which try to buy exclusives and dsiscourage, and if it's legal and it works, try to lock out, universal equipment and system changing controller adapters, (lkie an Xbox 360 controller on a PS3), most people try to make many accommodations to allow all 3 flavors in as close to full glory they can give to all 3 wihtout making scarifices.

In the early Laser Disc days, mos surround systems were one format. In what year were most surround sound equipment considered "tri-family"? (DTS, Dolby and LPCM). I think by the time the DVD days (maybe sooner), it was not controversial to allow all 3 formats. Noe=wadays, there is notoriety to favor one format over another.


4) Game audio equipment makers target ONLY games for no rational reason.



But gaming surround headset have all universally accepted Dolby inputs and allow systems like the Xbox 360, PS3, Xbox One, and PS4 to set the machines that convert all 3 flavors into a Dolby discrete input via Toslink, and then, the Turtle Beach, Trtion, and other similar brands all seem to work well.

The one thing that all of them assume, and it is at least 90% true, that game surround headsets and dcecoders are purchased for gaming equipment. But since I saw that Toslink and Coaxial were interchangeable, and the languages were the same but the medium was different. (using human languages as an analogy, Toslink Dolby, Toslink DTS, and Toslink LPCM were spoken English, spoken Spanish and spoken French while the Coaxial Dolby, Coaxial DTS, and Coaxial LPCM were written English, written Spanish, and Written French.) Going from Coaxial to Toslink and vice versa is easier than changing sound format. This is like speaking the written word, or writing spoken words beoing easier than translating from one language to another.

If physical media formats (Toslink) and sound language formats (Dolby 5.1) weren't enough, now throw in 2-track headphone languages. (It's like adding competing computer programming languages in addition to spoken and written languages) There is Dolby Headphones (and its successor, Dolby Atmos Headphones) and DTS X: Headphones, plus something that might be a proprietary Nintendo LCPM-based 2-track headphone track decoder, or might be a public domain LPCM Headphones sound sytem.




5) Many reasons why 2-track headphone languages are good, including unexpected practical uses.



If you're not familiar with them, they are 2-track stereo mixes that are mixed in such a way that, assuming you're listening to them in headphones that cover the ears and are in the proper vertical rotation orientation for the effect to work, (usually band between ears over top of head.) uses echo, reverb, and other acoustical effects to give the human mind a sense of direction of the sound, both position and motion.

There are some unexpected side effects. If you can either broadcast, like Twitch or Mixer, record, or both simultaneously, a standard 2-track stereo recorder, either in isolation in in sync with video, in every format I tried so far, like my Portable MP3 Voice/direct input recorder, DVD recorder, and I've seen Twitch examples on my friend's stream when doing Xbox One, ad he didn't set it up intentoinally, it just happened.

I guess you could use a low power HD FM radio (which is analog FM compatible, or for cheaper analog FM natively) to multiply a headphone encoded track to as many listeners as you want. Each user provides their own FM tuner, sets it to tee right station. plugs in earphones thar cover their ears, and you have as,mmay wireless headset as you want with just 1 AA Battery powered portable FM radio and one earphone set per person.

A final use is as the cheapest way to tape a TV show wiht surround. Use an ordinary TV-based DVD recorder, or a modern discless format that has L/R npiuts and the best synched video you can get, route te audio after it's been headphone decoded into the recorer.

In all these cases, even game recordings, on playback, assuming you listen in headphones, the surround soundscape is preserved accurately. With the synched video, the coded audio gives away where y\our opponent was shooting from, and in movies it sounds movie like. So you don't have to buy a Dolby or DTS streamer or recorder, any ordinary 2-track will do.


6) Sound formats go forward...

When the Xbox One and PS4 came out, new formats, like Atmos and DTS: X and LPCM 7.1 were introduced, thanks tp mopre powerful systems.

And on the Nintendo scene, both the Wi U and Switch have 5.1 ad 7.1 respectively. The big problem dor me: they chose LPCM for their surround formats.

There are 2 problems with that. One is that my Toslink converter can fit the maximum for LPCM of 2.0, so even if t did work, there's only 2 channels of data. The second is I don' t know wether or not my Turtle Beach X41, X42, and DSS can convert LPCM 5.1 to Dolby 5.1 and then to Dolby headphones.


7) My discovery of, and origins of the 2-track headphone format



At home mhy Wi U and ans Sucked through the Turtle Beaches. Then at home I played Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild on the road with headphones on. I was running away from goblins (I know that's not the canonical name, this is a movie website, not as game website) and I was out of turbo dash, Goblins were coming up frfom behind, adn then something clicked. I heard that the closest was was at my right shoulder. I heard a swing, and instinct told me the instantt to dodge wihta sharp evasive move. The when my turbo came back, I was using it sparingly, both turboing AND evading (bu going more forward thanks to selective turbo) and I evaded them so much wihtout losing distance that I lost them.

I thought there was a hidden "Now that we have Atmos, we're embarrassed by Dolby 5.1 by now, that you can use it freely. Just shut up and don't use our name" license. I was wrong. On a Nintendo fan site, ost peoplke say the one thing Nintendo did right when saving money by not getting a Dolby license was having surround headphone sound,wiht jsut ordinary headpphones.

The I remembered a format ar within a format war: Wiht the Super Nintendo, they invented headphone surround> If I would have knwwn it wa that good, I would have done headphones way earlier. However it's not easy to hook up an SNES to a headphone wihtout extera equpment.

If one system make sense to use the headphone port on, it was Sega Genesis(at least based on the first model) instead they teamed wiht Capcom and made Q sound for Sonic CD, and Sega Genesis and Saturn versions of certain Capcom games (SF2NC, SFA, SFA2)

In instruction are a mess. The only way the effect gives 3D is n one sentence, set up 2 speakers like it's the front 2 of a home theater system. I'll scan and post instructions later. In most cases natural in-TV stereo speakers work, but you msut be dead center and ears at speaker height for it to work.

If virtual surround based on speaker geography is superior to virtual surround sound in headphones, why is Q Sound talked about in the same way Quadraphonic Radio is talk about now, while the Xbox One has hardware+app based surround headphones? I think the main reason is that Headphones are easer to keep in a condition favorable to maintaining the virtual stereo effect compared to keeping ypur head still, especially in a video game, where you can tend to "steer with your body english"


8)... while gaming headset techmnology goes backward.


One problem Turtle Beach and their competitors have is that thy are so focused on gaming audio, that when Xbox One includes one gaming audio stadnadrd, windows Sonic, and you can buy one straight from Dolby called the Dolby Atmos Headphone app for Xbox One, the paid part of Dolby Access, (the free part lets you pass Atmos corerctly to your communal sound system) an External headphone encoder might seem antiquated. So antiquated, of Turtle Beach's catalog, in 20100 half their entries had surround encoding, now less than 10% do, and they are earlier holdover models.

But they try to innovate by releasing a DTS: X Headphone. I know it's a PS4 headphone and, tough it says it works for Switch, and if it convert LPCM 7.1 for both the Swithc and Wii U it may be handy, but the problem is, It's USB, and neither my Xbox One nor my Stand-alone 4K/3D player accepts USB surround headphone dongles.

The second problem is even stranger. Turtle Beach's DTS X Headphone only describes the OUTPUT. by that last statement, you can predict that it STILL requires a Dolby INPUT. World Trade Federation? If we were decsibing in cola terms it's Coke using Pepsi and the main ingredient, taking out the sugar, adding extra flavoring and a zero carloie sweetner, and calllng it Coke Zero,. In car terms, it's like Chevy using a Ford transmission as an ingredient. (American Motors frankenstiened parts from all 3 US makers mixed together, but at least they were their own brand until Chrysler bought them)




9) Wgat people like me need:





If you just want to make dumb headphones with no surround sound technology that relies on game hardware to give it surround effects, then they are using only half their company.

First I know the Dolby Atmos Headphone app works with Dolby Atmos movies perfectly fine, (unfortunately most 3D movies advertised as Atmos use DTS 7.1 on the 3D disc, and Atmos only on the 2D disc. You must choose between 3D sound and 3D vision) what I question is other non-Atmos formats being used as INPUT, whether DTS, LPC or even "lower" Dolby versions as input.

I know I can correct it by going back to the Turtle Beach Tosink or everything DTS and Dobly 7.1 and below if bad. But Xbox can give us different settings based movie and game audio source language Atmos-> Atmos Headphone : LPCM surround -> ? : everyhtoing else -> Xbox's pre-Atmos DTS-> Dolby decoder via Tosloink out.

Also if they think theirsurround processors are useless, sell it as either a "universal gaming", or "universal Movie disc" (or go all out: Uniersal Movie Disc + game) Dependign on market conditions thees 2 shoudl euithewr be separate or combined, but both offered.

1) HDMI pack: HDM input, accepts all levels of all 3 flavors. goes o 2 paths, one to the TV, and the other to a processor. The processor does 3 things:

Step one: If LPCM 5.1 or higher, it either converts to public domain LPCM headphone, or if still owned by Nintendo, cros-convert LPCM to the same level (5.1 or 7.1) of either Dolby or DTS, (either pick the best one, or put a 1/2 switch for LCPM -> Dolby/DTS)

Once there, then step 2: Ifdolby, then converts Dolby to Dolby Headphones ( or a separate Atmos to Atmos Headphone conversion if I'm not mistaken about Atmos Headphone having problems wi\th lower Dolbys) and separatetly, independently, DTS 5.1 - 11.1 -> DTS headphone.

And step 3 is a digital FM frequency dial which you can tune to a free (or if none, furthest away and unwanted) FM frequency to braodcast a 2-track headphone trackon.

Include 1 HD FM radio, sell more as premium add-on kits or say use regular FM radios as exrta receivers.

Have 2 or more differnt movies playing 2 dofferent movies, buy a scecond tuner amd pivk a diffewrent freequency.

Also I'm thinkling, if this is combined with a wa to turn any o;ld 2D TV into a Shutter 3D, the sync signal will be transmitted o theHD2 signal of the audiio and glasses receive sync with it. Thaty's wh you use HD. Plus it's CD quality. It's only got 2 tracks, but f it's braodcasting n coded headphone, 2 is alll you need.

That will get all my movies and games, except Toslnk based Xbox Prime, PS2, and Pro Logic/Stereo/Mon via L/R And if it's going to be a ture retro, acoasxiual port for 2 reasons. One for not having to buy Coax-> Tos adapters, and 2, if you can include Dolby AC3-> Dobly Digitla 5.1 translation, Laser disc Dolbyt Ac3 can run wiht THIS instead of an ebay find.

Our all 4 ports in the front put an HDMI A/V out port and a L/R post encoded heapdhne port to lug n for recordings, have anoher switc for HDMI Out = N?H for eithewr natively keep whatever's coming out untouched, or convert THAT uotput to Headphes if you haveno other srroud and mant to stream a non HDMI game wiht surroud effects.



10) A temporary solution upstairs and the LCPM 2.0 vs Dolby Headphone taste test


Well I think there was a mode on my old broken 3D/ pre-4K upstairs player, my LG had a convert everthing to DTS mode and a convert non DTS-Toslink to LPCM 2.0

I got a new player a Sony model UBP-=X800. i never checked if it cross converted like my LG. If it does, let's hope it does the other way. If it's tos.link, won't help LCPM though.

I guess it would be more reasonable to hope Turtle Beach, ...

(or dare I say, any other company, because when I wrote tTB about making the universal headphone converter, they said they were as Gaming audio compnay..."emphasis on the gaming" maybe, a company with NO gaming experience but has lots of audio experience wold like to build my Universal surround Heasdphone encoder/transmitter. I didn't leave Turtle Beach. Turtke beach left me. If turtle Beaches work on non gaming devicxes, then auidio is addio, whether movies and TV.

Thankfully. Broadcast TV and Dish are all Dolby 5.1. I guess they chgose Dolby because DTS has no 2-track or 1-track mode or retro shows, because their first invention was Theater ands LD DTS 5.1 No need to deal with less.

Worst case, I can pick it up i the air. Not sure about Web. I guess it depends on site and individual video maker. it could be DTS, DFolby, LPCM, or even pre-encoded heapdhone.

Finally, is headphone encodig undectectable tothe non-earphoned ear? Waching Star Trek Continues on the web, I first listened in Dolby headphone, and it sounded Dolb 5.1 ish. So IO reecorded it on DVD piping in headphone encoded soun, played the disc, and no one knew the difference....

... unitl I got toone epsode that sounded echoy. I checked my wires, and somehow I either "Double encoded:" the sound or, moe likely ed Pro logic Mode instead of Digital 5.1 mode. Tht they mnoticed. I asked if the bare ear noticed a difference until that one. They said no.

Take the Dolby Headphoine DVD chalenge. One you do, ypu'll never settle for recording standard stereo again