Aquaman

[morbiD]

I bought an Aquaman Blu-ray directly from my Amazon wishlist without realising it was a third-party seller being fulfilled by Amazon.

Everything about it looks legit; the cover is accurate and the print quality is decent, it's got the correct DC Universe leaflet inside the case, and it came with a digital download code.

However, it's in a slim (11mm) Blu-ray case with no slip cover, and the disc itself is a single-layer BD-R with a dark blue colour instead of silver. It also seems to be unencrypted because I can copy the 15.4GB 00018.m2ts file straight off the disc and it will play just fine in any media player I like.

I scanned it with BDInfo and the average bitrate of the video is only 6.6Mbps. See scan results below:

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     Aquaman
Disc Label:     AQUAMAN
Disc Size:      22,040,698,914 bytes
Protection:     AACS
Extras:         BD-Java
BDInfo:         0.7.5.5

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00002.MPLS
Length:                 2:23:21.092 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   16,637,368,320 bytes
Total Bitrate:          15.47 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        6636 kbps           1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Dolby TrueHD/Atmos Audio        English         4027 kbps       7.1 / 48 kHz /  3579 kbps / 24-bit (AC3 Embedded: 5.1-EX / 48 kHz /   448 kbps / DN -27dB)
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         2363 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  2363 kbps / 16-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz /  1509 kbps / 16-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             English         448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz /   448 kbps / DN -27dB

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         25.715 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00018.M2TS      0:00:00.000     2:23:21.092     16,637,368,320  15,475          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:11:09.293     5,241 kbps      20,280 kbps     00:01:15.575    13,436 kbps     00:01:15.742    11,801 kbps     00:01:14.157    27,325 bytes    302,642 bytes   00:06:33.434    
2               0:11:09.293     0:11:02.328     5,456 kbps      16,005 kbps     00:20:54.878    13,654 kbps     00:17:24.585    11,257 kbps     00:17:20.122    28,444 bytes    203,993 bytes   00:19:25.080    
3               0:22:11.621     0:07:59.395     6,818 kbps      26,105 kbps     00:25:11.718    21,426 kbps     00:25:09.716    14,764 kbps     00:25:38.036    35,544 bytes    351,638 bytes   00:25:08.757    
4               0:30:11.017     0:10:17.700     6,789 kbps      31,325 kbps     00:35:13.861    25,527 kbps     00:32:47.840    21,815 kbps     00:35:07.063    35,396 bytes    427,927 bytes   00:38:22.508    
5               0:40:28.717     0:09:55.928     7,768 kbps      28,737 kbps     00:42:39.056    18,306 kbps     00:42:39.056    15,092 kbps     00:42:37.554    40,499 bytes    427,522 bytes   00:46:33.373    
6               0:50:24.646     0:10:51.108     5,719 kbps      16,224 kbps     01:00:35.923    13,474 kbps     01:00:33.629    10,621 kbps     01:00:30.293    29,816 bytes    265,581 bytes   00:51:02.517    
7               1:01:15.755     0:07:41.335     8,324 kbps      25,668 kbps     01:04:43.045    19,521 kbps     01:04:39.125    15,282 kbps     01:04:40.543    43,395 bytes    313,452 bytes   01:04:50.511    
8               1:08:57.091     0:12:44.180     5,738 kbps      18,834 kbps     01:13:10.886    15,754 kbps     01:20:11.890    14,085 kbps     01:20:11.890    29,913 bytes    304,557 bytes   01:17:51.750    
9               1:21:41.271     0:13:09.163     6,997 kbps      24,261 kbps     01:30:34.971    15,460 kbps     01:33:26.934    14,544 kbps     01:33:26.934    36,478 bytes    357,812 bytes   01:27:54.852    
10              1:34:50.434     0:04:46.995     4,417 kbps      11,866 kbps     01:34:50.768    9,869 kbps      01:34:50.518    7,912 kbps      01:35:04.698    23,029 bytes    259,099 bytes   01:39:33.801    
11              1:39:37.429     0:09:55.386     8,067 kbps      33,454 kbps     01:40:24.226    26,383 kbps     01:41:57.027    23,614 kbps     01:41:55.651    42,057 bytes    381,349 bytes   01:45:12.848    
12              1:49:32.816     0:12:03.723     7,685 kbps      27,627 kbps     01:54:42.292    23,042 kbps     01:54:41.332    19,004 kbps     01:54:27.360    40,068 bytes    289,250 bytes   01:54:37.370    
13              2:01:36.539     0:08:43.356     10,095 kbps     24,082 kbps     02:06:22.533    21,998 kbps     02:05:26.518    20,543 kbps     02:05:21.513    52,632 bytes    246,290 bytes   02:03:27.024    
14              2:10:19.895     0:13:01.197     4,454 kbps      36,562 kbps     02:14:28.143    32,733 kbps     02:14:24.431    31,632 kbps     02:14:19.342    23,224 bytes    529,529 bytes   02:23:17.547    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00018.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     8600.967                6,636                   7,134,817,821   38,897,193      
00018.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x83            Atmos           eng (English)           8600.967                4,027                   4,329,341,530   29,418,125      
00018.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       eng (English)           8600.967                2,363                   2,541,004,904   15,159,683      
00018.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            AC3             eng (English)           8600.967                448                     481,662,720     2,687,850       
00018.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           8600.967                26                      27,647,165      160,589

Can anyone post a BDInfo scan of a legit copy, or otherwise advise on whether mine is a counterfeit?

What should the disc/file size be?

[hariseldon]

If it's on a BD-R it's a bootleg -- no reason to check anything else. (Edit: as noted below a major film like Aquaman and anything Warner will not be a BD-R)

Was it supposed to be a UK disc? If I had to bet, the digital copy is 'inactive"

US item was mid 40GB. multu country 3D were pushing 50Gb There;s no way a legit release would be 1/2 that size

[Naiera]

Definitely a bootleg. I still can't believe there's money to be made off this sort of business.

[brian9229]

Third party Amazon sellers tend to be scummy.

[Geoff D]

The BD-R is the first and only clue you need, of course it's a boot.

[Naiera]

There are official releases on BD-R, but obviously not something like Aquaman.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Naiera

There are official releases on BD-R, but obviously not something like Aquaman.

There are, but also not from WB.

[David M]

Yes, definitely a bootleg. Who was the seller?

[Shingster]

If it's fulfilled by Amazon you'll at least be covered, get in touch with customer support and get those bootleg peddlers reported and your account refunded sharpish. As David says, name and shame here as well so fellow members/browsers will know to avoid them.

I really don't understand why amazon persist with this completely nonsensical practice of listing their 3rd Party Sellers ahead of themselves. It just makes things incredibly confusing for the consumer. I've fallen afoul of it a couple of times and one of those two times I ended up with a SSD Hard Drive that had clearly been opened subsequently returned, might have been 2nd hand for all I knew.

[DaveSimonH]

Definitely a bootleg, as others have said some studios (notably Sony's 'Choice Collection') have used BD-R discs in their releases. But there aren't any legit 'Aquaman' releases with BD-R discs and their telltale dark colour data side. Hopefully you'll be able to get your refund quickly, without hassle.

The only time I ever received a bootleg blu-ray was for the ShoutFactory 'Return of the Living Dead' two disc set. The slipcover was printed with somewhat competence (just some of the finer text was a little fuzzy), but the cover was pretty faded looking and ditto for the disc art. But the BD-Rs confirmed what was already obvious. But it was sealed and even had the info sticker on front. I was lucky, it was on ebay and the seller immediately refunded when I sent a message.
My dad recently had to send a bootleg Dr Who DVD back to seller for his refund. Ebay were no help unfortunately and seem to have no seperate refund process for counterfeit items, which is pretty amazing as far as incompetence goes. The DVD set was much more convincing, and the discs had the silver data side, like retail discs. The giveaway was a standard case & slip, instead of a digipak and the discs were copyright free, all region, 4.7GB discs. Which of course the BBC wouldn't do for a flagship series.

Originally Posted by brian9229

Third party Amazon sellers tend to be scummy.

Lets not tar all the businesses on the marketplace with same brush.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Shingster

If it's fulfilled by Amazon you'll at least be covered, get in touch with customer support and get those bootleg peddlers reported and your account refunded sharpish. As David says, name and shame here as well so fellow members/browsers will know to avoid them.

Report the seller to Warner Bros. as well. They might not do anything but a C&D letter from Warner legal would give them a well-deserved dose of salts.

[johnpaul2]

The movie is heavily re-compressed. The original discs for this around the world are BD-50, the movie having a 22267 kbps AVB.
Interestingly, they kept the original soundtracks, I guess they thought it might have been a tell-tale if they didn't.

US release :

Disc Size:      47,457,710,202 bytes
Protection:     AACS
Extras:         BD-Java
BDInfo:         0.7.5.3 (compatible layout created by DVDFab 11.0.1.9)

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00002.MPLS  
Length:                 2:23:21.092 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   35,787,687,936 bytes
Total Bitrate:          33.29 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description    
-----                   -------             -----------    
MPEG-4 AVC Video        22267 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1 /

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description    
-----                           --------        -------         -----------    
Dolby TrueHD/Atmos Audio        English         4027 kbps       7.1-Atmos / 48 kHz / 4027 kbps / 24-bit (AC3 Core: 5.1-EX / 48 kHz / 448 kbps)
Dolby Digital Audio             Spanish         448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         2363 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 2363 kbps / 16-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 16-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             French          448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Portuguese      448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description    
-----                           --------        -------         -----------    
Presentation Graphics           English         25.715 kbps                    
Presentation Graphics           French          18.918 kbps                    
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         20.974 kbps                    
Presentation Graphics           Portuguese      21.315 kbps                    
Presentation Graphics           French          0.471 kbps

Of course, you should definitely go ballastic through Amazon and possibly Warner to ensure whoever is behind it gets at least a good scare (if it's not a big operation).

[morbiD]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'll be getting straight onto Amazon about it.

I was 90% sure it must be a bootleg but I have heard of legit releases on BD-R, and wondered if there was maybe some kind of "Manufactured on Demand" thing for Blu-rays like Amazon are now doing with audio CDs.

Here's the seller: https://www.amazon.co.uk/sp?seller=A1DRKDU6MJJJUM

Pretty obvious when you look at the stated business address, lol.

Why the hell does Amazon present this kind of third-party seller on people's wishlists items, instead of Amazon's own stock, without making it patently obvious who you're actually buying from?

I literally just went to my wishlist, saw a good price listed (£6.80) and clicked "Add to Basket", thinking it was sold by Amazon. That'll teach me to pay more attention in future!

[chip75]

You'll probably have to open a claim with Amazon for a refund. Does the digital code work? I thought they were quite hard to generate.

To be honest I wouldn't buy anything off a new seller on Amazon, especially one with only three sales.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by DaveSimonH

... as others have said some studios (notably Sony's 'Choice Collection') have used BD-R discs in their releases.

I have a handful of Gravitas Ventures releases. Those are my only exposure to BD-R so far.

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by morbiD

I was 90% sure it must be a bootleg but I have heard of legit releases on BD-R, and wondered if there was maybe some kind of "Manufactured on Demand" thing for Blu-rays like Amazon are now doing with audio CDs.

H

There are a number of tiny studio/Distributors that do some sort of legit BD-R releases -- usually nearly unknown films which may only sell a few hundred copies (FILM DETECTIVE is one such distributor). I'm unaware that any major studio has done so -- at least not for very long.

In the US -- SONY CHOICE discs had about 20 releases including Real Genius and the original Belushi/Ackroyd Neighbors. These were expensive, prone to playback issues, substantial negative consumer backlash at being sold inferior burned item, overall they sold poorly and the line was discontinued after a little over a year.

Lionsgate MOD line just launched recently and by report are BD-R. Not enough releases yet to know about the quality of transfer or the compatibility of the discs.

Sony MOD line of normal replicated/Pressed BD's relaunched a year later being manufactured and distributed like Warner Archive pressed MOD BD (MOD is not equivalent to burned discs). So far with excellent response other than stubbornly high prices.

UNIVERSAL did something similar with a pressed BD MOD. Universal has a bit lower cost than Sony (similar to WAC), but also have far lower quality transfer overall than the Sony MOD titles.

[morbiD]

Well, the Amazon customer services agent I spoke to immediately offered me a refund and a postage label to return the item, but he didn't ask any questions about why I considered the item to be counterfeit, so I asked him whether it would actually be examined and any action taken against the seller, and he just said yes.

Fingers crossed they actually do something about it.

Warner Bros UK seem to have precisely zero contact information on their website unless you go trawling through their Terms of Use, which just contains a postal address, so I'm not sure how to go about reporting anything to them. I googled the address and found a phone number, so maybe I'll call and ask for an email address.

They don't make it easy though!

[Blu Lemmy]

Nah, they won't do squat. Small drop in the Ocean for them.

I reported the same thing on eBay, Season 7 of GoT.....was a decent counterfeit, but a counterfeit nonetheless.....they couldn't give two hoots

[blueman_Richie]

morbiD,
You could always let FACT know about the seller and your experience. No idea if it will do any good especially as the seller seems to have vanished.
https://www.fact-uk.org.uk/consumer-advice/report-it/