Worth making the jump to Atmos? (from 7.1?)

[SPIDERone]

I have an older 7.1 system with a decent power output (I feel), and "OK" speakers (upgraded all 7 to the newer SONY CORE series) and a Klipsch R-12SW Subwoofer.

I've been debating for years if I wanted to upgrade to Atmos since I rent and can't install anything onto the ceiling.. it would be going with Bounced speakers. The 2nd problem is that going to a 5.1.2 would cut out my rear surrounds, so I'd need at least a 7.1.2 (and ideally, a 7.1.4) to keep all of my active speakers and only add to it. Those don't seem to be cheap though! Especially for not-so-amazing speakers already, and needing to bounce the .2 or .4's.

Room size is about 16 wide x 12 feet deep, 8 feet high. Of that, the speakers occupy a nice space in the middle of about 8x8x8 (pushed forwards from the walls to make a 'viewing zone')

Do you notice the same immersion/difference with upfiring atmos to justify an upgrade?


Another, somewhat unrelated question, is that my receiver does 7.2 and has 2 Sub outputs.

I'm using the R-12SW and really like it. I only crank it a bit (maybe 50-60%). Would a 2nd subwoofer add anything do a room this size? And what would placement be? Currently the sub is front-right.

[oddbox83]

I went from 7.1 to 5.1.2 with upfirers. Worth it, as for me the 7.1 always seemed muddled in my small room.

Your other option to to do height speakers if you can mount on walls below ceiling level. Just set the receiver to the correct Atmos speaker and placement. IMO, I think heights and upfirers create a similar overhead but-not-quite-directly sound, though obviously true heights will give a consistent sound without using bouncing which can be hit or miss in some rooms with wider seating, as upfirers have a limited sweet spot to sit in. Honestly though, upfirers do their job if you have no other options, that's what they're for.

2nd subs - think more in terms of alleviating awkward placement issues than increased power for a small room. For example, if you can't place a single sub in an optimal position at the front, you can add another in another position to help cure "dead zones".

[CompleteCount]

There's always the option of carefully placing the height speakers to function as rears when not watching in Atmos. This involves setting having vastly different delay/distance settings when setting your system them for heights & rears.

The current "Surround" & Neural X modes for upmixing to faux Atmos for use with 7.1 & 5.1 do such a damn good job that would probably just want to employ the height speakers most of the time, anyway.

[SPIDERone]

Thanks!

For 5.1.2, would you want the Atmos speakers in the front or rear?

And on a smaller room setup (an 8x8 foot area in a 12x16 room) will the addition of 2 front + 2 rears give any benefit? or is that just overkill?

Lastly, can you mix the Atmos speakers? Like a 5.1.2, could you get the standard 5.1 + 1 front + 1 rear height speaker? or is it Front L+R or Rear L+R?

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by SPIDERone

Thanks!

For 5.1.2, would you want the Atmos speakers in the front or rear?

And on a smaller room setup (an 8x8 foot area in a 12x16 room) will the addition of 2 front + 2 rears give any benefit? or is that just overkill?

Lastly, can you mix the Atmos speakers? Like a 5.1.2, could you get the standard 5.1 + 1 front + 1 rear height speaker? or is it Front L+R or Rear L+R?

Front or middle. Rears would seem really odd without any at the front.

While there's nothing saying you can't have front and rear upfirers, placement becomes even more important for the effect to work since you want the rear bounce to hit the listener, not in front of the listener which risks a muddled soundscape. You either need equal space front and rear from the listener, or Atmos-enabled upfirers that allow angle adjustment to compensate. My Focal Sib Evo Atmos-enabled speakers have a stand with adjustable tilt for this purpose.

Calibration becomes ever more important using upfirers since you need them as perfect as you can get them. By all means use auto tools, I did, but I went in afterwards and manually adjusted the distances for the Atmos speakers to give an accurate distance from ceiling.

I'm not aware of any setups that enable single speaker placements. They always come as pairs to avoid the sort of front-rear acoustic issues that the short lived 6.1 system had.

It's not as complex as it sounds, unless I certainly wouldn't have the brain power to understand any of it! If you can visualise conical sound waves in your head with bouncing for upfirers, that helps greatly in trying to avoid a muddle of sounds.

[CompleteCount]

Originally Posted by SPIDERone

Thanks!

For 5.1.2, would you want the Atmos speakers in the front or rear?

And on a smaller room setup (an 8x8 foot area in a 12x16 room) will the addition of 2 front + 2 rears give any benefit? or is that just overkill?

Lastly, can you mix the Atmos speakers? Like a 5.1.2, could you get the standard 5.1 + 1 front + 1 rear height speaker? or is it Front L+R or Rear L+R?

No, it's generally 2 at either front or middle, but some (like Onkyo) let you select "Back".

For 5.1.2, I have put them not far behind seating position, so centre/rear, selecting "Top Middle" for it.

[golden ears]

Originally Posted by SPIDERone

Thanks!

For 5.1.2, would you want the Atmos speakers in the front or rear?

And on a smaller room setup (an 8x8 foot area in a 12x16 room) will the addition of 2 front + 2 rears give any benefit? or is that just overkill?

Lastly, can you mix the Atmos speakers? Like a 5.1.2, could you get the standard 5.1 + 1 front + 1 rear height speaker? or is it Front L+R or Rear L+R?

That's about the same size as my room, and I'm running 5.1.4. This gives me not only left to right, but front to back as well. Played the Dolby atmos helicopter demo clip, and you'll hear the helicopter circling the room, but with 5.1.2 you won't get the full immersive experience

[cmay91472]

Originally Posted by golden ears

That's about the same size as my room, and I'm running 5.1.4. This gives me not only left to right, but front to back as well. Played the Dolby atmos helicopter demo clip, and you'll hear the helicopter circling the room, but with 5.1.2 you won't get the full immersive experience

Dr. Sleep is a great example of the sound engineer utilizing the upper portion of the Atmos sound bubble. You literally hear flickering lights turn on in various corners of your ceiling both in front of you and in back of you as Ewan McGregor’s character walks around the old vacant hotel/lodge in the final act. You just don’t get the same immersion with just two speakers.

[cmay91472]

Originally Posted by Bolty

I have a question for the pros around here. I have a 9.2 Channel receiver.
The question is is there a general opinion or possibly a definite fact whether 7.2.2 or 5.2.4 is a superior setup.?
And this may or may not be a silly question where does the intended sound for the rear surround speakers go when you have a 5.2.4? I'm assuming that the rear sound goes to the rear height speakers but that's just my guess.
Thanks to anybody who might be able to answer these questions

I think 5.x.4 will provide much better immersion within the 3D Atmos sound bubble. Two “height” channels will provide really good overhead effects such as explosions, rain, voice over effects such as the ones in Ad Astra and American Psycho. Basically stuff that is directly over your head.

Four “height” channels will expand the sound field so you will hear effects moving in any direction the sound engineer chooses. So instead of just hearing a bullet over your head, you can hear a bullet start from behind you in one corner and travel over you all the way to the opposite corner in front of you. It really adds a true sense of immersion when you have discreet effects placed in all areas of the upper sound field vs just directly over your head. Marrowbone, A Quiet Place and Dr. Sleep are three great Atmos tracks where the ability to place object based sound in all areas of the upper sound field really creates a true sense of immersion by using the effect for stuff off screen such as something moving around in a room above what is taking place on screen. In a Quiet place, it truly is startling when after the kids knock over the lamp and start a fire to then hear the creature move from one corner of the room above and behind you to the other corner in front of you.

I have talked to a few people who prefer 7.x.2 over 5.x.4 for whatever reasons, but I think as sound engineers really start to utilize Atmos and DTS X in more creative ways, having four “height” channels will be the preference for most.

[Bolty]

^^ thank you very much for that answer! I had a feeling that the four height channels would probably be a better experience than 7.x.2 -- but before I changed my set up I wanted to get some informed opinions.

[Bill C]

I have about the same size room, I went with top center .. sounds good to me.
5.1.2 .

Worth it

[New2019]

I am definitely a NO expert but my straight answer is '200% WORTHIT' setting up Dolby Atmos. No way one can debate
I just upgraded from a super-crappy samsung speakers to a decent one (spent CAD-2000) including 2 small Ceiling speakers just for Atmos. MAN...rocking effect especially Atmos in JW1 Rain scene or Kong skull Island helicoptre effect
Go for it....

[Bn43]

I have two wall-hanging down-firing speakers above my TV. As nice as height can be, I would still say no, since the huge majority of what I watch is either 2.0, mono or 5.1. I have my receiver set to Direct. The Atmos speakers are rarely used.

[oddbox83]

I'd agree. I've said before 7.1 didn't really work in my seating arrangement as in a lot of homes as opposed to dedicated cinema rooms, you're really short on space for proper placement behind you. You've got all that space above you were placement is easier if you're able to mount speakers.

On a similar note, I only think up-firers are worth it for front channels where you are limited. Putting them on rear channels if your space isn't perfect is going to easily cause a muddling.

The metadata processing can be superb though even with just 2 channels. In 5.1.2 I don't feel like there's a hole at the back because the receiver is processing the sound correctly for my setup, so you still get a bubble. It's not like you are missing 2 overhead channels, they are just mixed into other speakers into such a way that still supports this bubble. I'm guessing it mixes some into the front upfirers, and some into the rears based on the distances setup in the receiver so you get a of of phantom sound for the rear heights. Basically Atmos (and similar) opens the doors for a lot of clever, bespoke, processing of the data.

[davcole]

I have a 7.1.2 setup. the .2 are set as Top Height channels, and I'm pleased with that. I may play around with 5.1.4. I'm sure there is more immersion, but in truth. all the rear channels are mounted on the ceiling, so the Top Rear, I don't know that it would really be as effective, if I had the 2 surround channels at ear level.