Defending Alien3

[wonderer99]

Spoilers for Alien3 follow

Let me start by saying there are not many films I love more than Alien and its sequel seven years later. They were staples of my childhood (yes my parents had their flaws) and I have returned to them many many times over the years. I will not discuss these films here as they are universally seen as great movies by the majority here and everywhere else.

tumblr_me3wvo4yzR1rbu729o1_1280.jpg

Alien 3.

Now that is a whole different story isn't it? Universally criticized by the majority of critics and common folk alike for a number of reasons, some valid, most not. It is widely seen as the point when the Alien franchise went downhill and to this day I genuinely have no idea why. I am just going to say it. I LOVE Alien 3. I have from the moment my dad bought me a rubbish pirated copy on VHS at a car boot sale in 1992.

I was 11 in 1992 when I remember seeing what I presume now was a trailer for Alien 3 on the TV. I was excited. Very excited. This is because even at such a young age the first two films had already imprinted their greatness on me. When I watched the third film as an 11 year old I liked it because it had a big scary monster that chased people in it. The same reason I loved the first two.

As an adult I still adore it.

To quickly theorize, maybe the film would have been better or worse if the studio had not meddled as much, no one knows and to confirm my opinions are based on the assembly cut of the movie, a superior experience to the theatrical version in many ways. This version is not the train wreck of a movie some would have you believe. Its not even the awful film some would have you believe, or the bad film, or the mediocre one. What we have is actually a good, hell i'm saying it, a GREAT entry in the Alien franchise.

I love it because it is not Alien or Aliens. From the off it makes clear this is NOT what came before. How could it be? Put yourself in Finchers chair, how do you follow up the first two movies? What would YOU have done? Make a dark, scary horror? An all out action film? Sorry, both been done. Bear in mind this was Finchers first studio film, his chance to stamp his name on the world and say here I am. He did not want to be the director for hire, the guy that just made a carbon copy of either of the first two films and as the audience we should applaud that decision. For better or worse he needed to make his own beast, make HIS film, HIS way and show the world he was a director to be watched and he did just that. Even through all the meddling from the studio and frustration from Fincher himself his Fincherness if you will shines through at many points. To create something new however something had to change....or someone.......or someones, and they did not have to change so much as.......die.

alieniii2.jpg

Ahh its THE main gripe when anyone talks about this movie. Sigh. What is there to say? I loved those characters too you know, they were a bonafide, Goddamn family at the end of Aliens and they were going to live happily ever after. That's what I wanted, that's what you wanted. Fincher had other ideas, and as pained as I am to admit it. He was right.

Had Newt and Hicks survived, Alien 3 would have become Aliens 2. Simple as that. Look at the world of Alien 3, think of the tone, the setting, the characters, the bleakness that permeates the whole film and tell me there was a place for Hicks and Newt there? Fincher went for bleak, depressing, hopeless and desperate for this film and he did so from frame one. It was a creative choice and one in which the family dynamic could not exist. We wanted them to survive but Finchers brutality and cold dismissal of beloved characters told us this film was never going to be what we wanted, for us or Ripley. Killing Newt and Hicks was the second time Ripley has lost her family because of this creature as well as her promising romance with Clemens and sets up her whole character for the rest of the film. A character which I will also say has never been better, Sigourney Weaver arguably the best she has ever been.

alien3-11.jpg

Oh and something most tend to ignore is how to explain Newt suddenly aging 6 years in stasis? To have had Newt survive would have tarnished the second film more than what people believe Alien 3 has already.

Also having these two characters die means we get one of the most beautiful scenes in science fiction history.....their funeral. Watching one large and one small shrouded figure fall away into the flames as Elliot Goldenthals score swells chokes me every time.

Getting back to Finchers bleak look for the film honestly can you think of a more depressing, despair sodden sci fi film than this? From the get go we are presented with a place of no hope and yet, somehow hope and faith manage to survive till the bitter end, permeating through all the gloom and dread, in prisoners that know that their salvation can only come from God and yet fight to survive anyway. Fincher tells you this is going to be a more thought provoking entry in the series with the blatant depiction of a cross in the bleak landscape of Fiorina "Fury" 161. This is bookended by Ripleys Christ like pose at the end. The tone of this film reflects beautifully this stage in Ripleys existence. She is tired, broken, dark and forgotten.

Alien3-shuttle-crashing.jpg

Another criticism is the cgi effects in Alien 3..........cgi.........oh wait no. THERE IS HARDLY ANY COMPUTER GENERATED SEQUENCES IN THE WHOLE FILM. THE ALIEN IS A PUPPET. OK sorry for the shouting but i'm tired of this argument, very tired. The creature effects department used a rod puppet for the full length alien scenes with only a couple of shots in the entire movie being cg. Does it look great? Nope but I am not pretending the film is flawless. The effects have not dated well and were far from seamless upon release but does that make a valid criticism? Not in my book. If anything at a time when the world and their mother was venturing into cg Fincher and his team still decided to utilize practical effects, something which is applauded today.

The cast have also been criticized for being hard to like, well yeah they are all murderers and rapists so go figure. Again using a cast of criminals is a brave road to take and should be applauded rather than met with derision. There is not a weak link in the cast, the acting is great and we were never going to feel the same for these guys the way we did Newt. This is just another reason Alien 3 is so bold. It does not try to follow the path of convention. Let be honest here, you can see why the studio balked at how this film was shaping up. Hell the alien is practically a sideline in a film about convicts. The real Alien here is Ripley, a woman in a maximum security prison full of men.

This is a film about redemption, about grief, about salvation. It just also happens to have an Alien running around like a dog......

....or is that an ox? It is in the superior extended version. Yeah it makes no sense that the alien is still dog like for the rest of the movie but hey. I actually prefer the ox birth sequence over the theatrical version but the scene, intertwined with the funeral remains a beautiful sequence whatever version you see. It shows for the first time a new breed of Alien, showing the characteristics of its host and we see the creature as we never have before. It is almost vulnerable, child like shivering in the cold.

The chase sequence near the end has been panned for being confusing. Difficult to place where the action is at any one point. Well yes, but is that not also kind of the point? Its as confusing for us as it is for the characters, nobody knowing what the hell the others are doing or where they are. The use of camera work from the alien point of view is also a first for the series and is well done. Before this movie the zenomorph never appears to be such a fleet footed creature, only hinted at in Aliens. This creature is as quick as a cat, the fear coming once again from a single creature bringing back the sense this thing is lethal. A criticism of Camerons movie is that it could be said a sense of terror of the alien was lost having so many on screen.

Aside from the dodgy puppet integration into the film the rest of the movie is gorgeous to look at. The set design is huge and fittingly bleak. Fincher created something both huge and claustrophobic at the same time and the tone and visuals never waiver once, a clear indication Fincher knew what he wanted from the get go.

Alien 3 also does something that hardly anyone gives it credit for. It feels like a continuation of what came before, feels like the third part to Ripley's story like these could be natural events flowing on from Aliens and ultimately brings a natural end to both the story, the alien and Ripley as a character. Unlike that bastard Resurrection which awkwardly brought Ripley back in what amounted to a borderline comedy. Now THERE was a film that disrespected the first two films.

You know there are probably a lot of other things to say in defense of Alien 3 but I feel like it would all be in vain. I was going to waffle on a lot longer but I have a feeling their would be no point. The major shock of Newt and Hicks determined a lot of peoples views on the film as soon as it happened and those views have stuck throughout the years but I strongly believe that given a chance Alien 3 has the potential to win back a lot of people. It is not perfect, there are flaws. I still have no idea how the eggs got on the Sulaco and wont pretend to know. But if even 20% of the troubled shoot rumors are true it is a miracle Fincher managed to create what he did out of the ruins of production. Fincher for all intents was an arrogant arse who is half to blame for the trouble depending on who you believe but who knows?

tumblr_n8v00xFCqO1rovfcgo3_1280.jpg

Alien 3 deserves to be watched again by a lot of people and although the majority of your views may remain intact maybe it also deserves a bit more credit for the many things it does very well, as a directorial debut, a sci-fi film and as an Alien movie.

[Geoff D]

Yes.

[Doctor Jack]

Has always and will always be a shit movie. Even the assembly cut or whatever it's called its just not good.

[chris_sc77]

Alien 3 is a very good movie.
It is not the movie we should have gotten or the movie it probably SHOULD have been but for what it is it is very good and it is a true progression of the storyline. unlike resurrection which is just a rehash for the most part .

[The Debts]

I like Alien 3 but I wish we got the wooden planet idea.

[Blu Lemmy]

Now that is a great argument, I commend your effort good sir.

[Adam_ME]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jack

Has always and will always be a shit movie. Even the assembly cut or whatever it's called its just not good.

Agreed. I'm sick of the Alien 3 apologists. It's funny how that movie was universally hated until Seven came out and Fincher gained a huge following. Then suddenly a bunch of people retroactively proclaimed their love for Alien 3 when I'll be damned if I could find a single fan of that movie back in 1992.

It's a rehash of the plot of the first film(swap out the ship for a prison). It contradicts the previous movie by sticking an egg in the Sulaco when there was never a chance for the Queen Alien to lay it. There are almost no likeable or interesting characters(the best one is Charles Dance who's offed very early on). It's an ugly movie in terms of cinematography. The FX looked cheap. The timeline makes no sense with Ripley being impregnated with the Queen Alien and a Company ship showing up right away(space travel must've gotten a lot quicker since Aliens). And worst of all, it sh-ts all over the previous film by killing off every surviving character.

[klauswhereareyou]

I like the theatrical cut of this. Nice atmosphere, and I like the fact that it swerved from the action movie heroics of the 2nd film (which I also like).

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Adam_ME

Agreed. I'm sick of the Alien 3 apologists. It's funny how that movie was universally hated until Seven came out and Fincher gained a huge following. Then suddenly a bunch of people retroactively proclaimed their love for Alien 3 when I'll be damned if I could find a single fan of that movie back in 1992.

Hell with that noise, jack. I was too young to go and see it in 1992 but when I caught it on video a few years later I was hooked, I've always liked the movie and I always will.

[ScarredLungs]

Alien 3 is a great movie. The Directors cut is much better.

[klauswhereareyou]

Funny how people would think that Alien 3 is liked now because it's "trendy" (which for me I like the theatrical cut which is much less Fincher), yet usually the argument against Alien 3 is .....BUT THEY KILLED NEWT and HICKS..........WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

[sxerunner]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Funny how people would think that Alien 3 is liked now because it's "trendy" (which for me I like the theatrical cut which is much less Fincher), yet usually the argument against Alien 3 is .....BUT THEY KILLED NEWT and HICKS..........WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

If I saw Alien 3 in the theater I would have been upset at the deaths as well. Everything Ripley fought for just taken away off screen. Looking at it in hindsight it still hurts, but it adds to the overall feel Fincher was trying to convey in that the world is hopeless and cold.

It's an odd movie. The assembly cut salvages it a little bit though. It's miles better than Resurrection IMO.

Too bad Fincher was burned so bad by the experience. If he were to make an Alien movie post-Se7en and Zodiac I bet it would be amazing.

[klauswhereareyou]

For the record I like Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3. Don't like Alien Resurrection even though it does a couple of nice set pieces and good cinematography.

[wonderer99]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

For the record I like Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3. Don't like Alien Resurrection even though it does a couple of nice set pieces and good cinematography.

I agree with this. In my opinion Resurrection disrespected the series infinitely more than Alien3. Making Ripley a human/alien clone? Jesus. Like you say there are some standout moments but there was too much humour in the film and the whole thing smacks of trying something new just to try something new. As if the studio had no idea what to do with the series but were desperate to get another film in cinemas. Alien3 at least tried a new direction while still feeling like an Alien film.

[Todd Tomorrow]

It's a flawed if interesting film but it's neither the best film in the series nor a good sequel. I actually like both the depressing first half hour and the depressing end, but I find the main bulk of the film the problem, with interchangeable baldies recreating the action of the far superior first film.

This seems to have become the most discussed topic on forums when it comes to the Alien franchise and as always both sides will make wildly exaggerated claims because these things can always be discussed in black and white.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

Spoilers for Alien3 follow

Let me start by saying there are not many films I love more than Alien and its sequel seven years later. They were staples of my childhood (yes my parents had their flaws) and I have returned to them many many times over the years. I will not discuss these films here as they are universally seen as great movies by the majority here and everywhere else.

Attachment 128726

Alien 3.

Now that is a whole different story isn't it? Universally criticized by the majority of critics and common folk alike for a number of reasons, some valid, most not. It is widely seen as the point when the Alien franchise went downhill and to this day I genuinely have no idea why. I am just going to say it. I LOVE Alien 3. I have from the moment my dad bought me a rubbish pirated copy on VHS at a car boot sale in 1992.

I was 11 in 1992 when I remember seeing what I presume now was a trailer for Alien 3 on the TV. I was excited. Very excited. This is because even at such a young age the first two films had already imprinted their greatness on me. When I watched the third film as an 11 year old I liked it because it had a big scary monster that chased people in it. The same reason I loved the first two.

As an adult I still adore it.

To quickly theorize, maybe the film would have been better or worse if the studio had not meddled as much, no one knows and to confirm my opinions are based on the assembly cut of the movie, a superior experience to the theatrical version in many ways. This version is not the train wreck of a movie some would have you believe. Its not even the awful film some would have you believe, or the bad film, or the mediocre one. What we have is actually a good, hell i'm saying it, a GREAT entry in the Alien franchise.

I love it because it is not Alien or Aliens. From the off it makes clear this is NOT what came before. How could it be? Put yourself in Finchers chair, how do you follow up the first two movies? What would YOU have done? Make a dark, scary horror? An all out action film? Sorry, both been done. Bear in mind this was Finchers first studio film, his chance to stamp his name on the world and say here I am. He did not want to be the director for hire, the guy that just made a carbon copy of either of the first two films and as the audience we should applaud that decision. For better or worse he needed to make his own beast, make HIS film, HIS way and show the world he was a director to be watched and he did just that. Even through all the meddling from the studio and frustration from Fincher himself his Fincherness if you will shines through at many points. To create something new however something had to change....or someone.......or someones, and they did not have to change so much as.......die.

Attachment 128727

Ahh its THE main gripe when anyone talks about this movie. Sigh. What is there to say? I loved those characters too you know, they were a bonafide, Goddamn family at the end of Aliens and they were going to live happily ever after. That's what I wanted, that's what you wanted. Fincher had other ideas, and as pained as I am to admit it. He was right.

Had Newt and Hicks survived, Alien 3 would have become Aliens 2. Simple as that. Look at the world of Alien 3, think of the tone, the setting, the characters, the bleakness that permeates the whole film and tell me there was a place for Hicks and Newt there? Fincher went for bleak, depressing, hopeless and desperate for this film and he did so from frame one. It was a creative choice and one in which the family dynamic could not exist. We wanted them to survive but Finchers brutality and cold dismissal of beloved characters told us this film was never going to be what we wanted, for us or Ripley. Killing Newt and Hicks was the second time Ripley has lost her family because of this creature as well as her promising romance with Clemens and sets up her whole character for the rest of the film. A character which I will also say has never been better, Sigourney Weaver arguably the best she has ever been.

Attachment 128728

Oh and something most tend to ignore is how to explain Newt suddenly aging 6 years in stasis? To have had Newt survive would have tarnished the second film more than what people believe Alien 3 has already.

Also having these two characters die means we get one of the most beautiful scenes in science fiction history.....their funeral. Watching one large and one small shrouded figure fall away into the flames as Elliot Goldenthals score swells chokes me every time.

Getting back to Finchers bleak look for the film honestly can you think of a more depressing, despair sodden sci fi film than this? From the get go we are presented with a place of no hope and yet, somehow hope and faith manage to survive till the bitter end, permeating through all the gloom and dread, in prisoners that know that their salvation can only come from God and yet fight to survive anyway. Fincher tells you this is going to be a more thought provoking entry in the series with the blatant depiction of a cross in the bleak landscape of Fiorina "Fury" 161. This is bookended by Ripleys Christ like pose at the end. The tone of this film reflects beautifully this stage in Ripleys existence. She is tired, broken, dark and forgotten.

Attachment 128729

Another criticism is the cgi effects in Alien 3..........cgi.........oh wait no. THERE IS HARDLY ANY COMPUTER GENERATED SEQUENCES IN THE WHOLE FILM. THE ALIEN IS A PUPPET. OK sorry for the shouting but i'm tired of this argument, very tired. The creature effects department used a rod puppet for the full length alien scenes with only a couple of shots in the entire movie being cg. Does it look great? Nope but I am not pretending the film is flawless. The effects have not dated well and were far from seamless upon release but does that make a valid criticism? Not in my book. If anything at a time when the world and their mother was venturing into cg Fincher and his team still decided to utilize practical effects, something which is applauded today.

The cast have also been criticized for being hard to like, well yeah they are all murderers and rapists so go figure. Again using a cast of criminals is a brave road to take and should be applauded rather than met with derision. There is not a weak link in the cast, the acting is great and we were never going to feel the same for these guys the way we did Newt. This is just another reason Alien 3 is so bold. It does not try to follow the path of convention. Let be honest here, you can see why the studio balked at how this film was shaping up. Hell the alien is practically a sideline in a film about convicts. The real Alien here is Ripley, a woman in a maximum security prison full of men.

This is a film about redemption, about grief, about salvation. It just also happens to have an Alien running around like a dog......

....or is that an ox? It is in the superior extended version. Yeah it makes no sense that the alien is still dog like for the rest of the movie but hey. I actually prefer the ox birth sequence over the theatrical version but the scene, intertwined with the funeral remains a beautiful sequence whatever version you see. It shows for the first time a new breed of Alien, showing the characteristics of its host and we see the creature as we never have before. It is almost vulnerable, child like shivering in the cold.

The chase sequence near the end has been panned for being confusing. Difficult to place where the action is at any one point. Well yes, but is that not also kind of the point? Its as confusing for us as it is for the characters, nobody knowing what the hell the others are doing or where they are. The use of camera work from the alien point of view is also a first for the series and is well done. Before this movie the zenomorph never appears to be such a fleet footed creature, only hinted at in Aliens. This creature is as quick as a cat, the fear coming once again from a single creature bringing back the sense this thing is lethal. A criticism of Camerons movie is that it could be said a sense of terror of the alien was lost having so many on screen.

Aside from the dodgy puppet integration into the film the rest of the movie is gorgeous to look at. The set design is huge and fittingly bleak. Fincher created something both huge and claustrophobic at the same time and the tone and visuals never waiver once, a clear indication Fincher knew what he wanted from the get go.

Alien 3 also does something that hardly anyone gives it credit for. It feels like a continuation of what came before, feels like the third part to Ripley's story like these could be natural events flowing on from Aliens and ultimately brings a natural end to both the story, the alien and Ripley as a character. Unlike that bastard Resurrection which awkwardly brought Ripley back in what amounted to a borderline comedy. Now THERE was a film that disrespected the first two films.

You know there are probably a lot of other things to say in defense of Alien 3 but I feel like it would all be in vain. I was going to waffle on a lot longer but I have a feeling their would be no point. The major shock of Newt and Hicks determined a lot of peoples views on the film as soon as it happened and those views have stuck throughout the years but I strongly believe that given a chance Alien 3 has the potential to win back a lot of people. It is not perfect, there are flaws. I still have no idea how the eggs got on the Sulaco and wont pretend to know. But if even 20% of the troubled shoot rumors are true it is a miracle Fincher managed to create what he did out of the ruins of production. Fincher for all intents was an arrogant arse who is half to blame for the trouble depending on who you believe but who knows?

Attachment 128731

Alien 3 deserves to be watched again by a lot of people and although the majority of your views may remain intact maybe it also deserves a bit more credit for the many things it does very well, as a directorial debut, a sci-fi film and as an Alien movie.

I have watched this again recently (both cuts) and it doesn't stand up very well to scrutiny. The shockingly bad special effects for the Alien alone make it a low point in the series (well, until the newborn in Resurrection came along)
As a movie it's just dull. The second half is a generic sci fi film and is so far away from the first two movies it might as well be in hyper sleep!

[Col. Zombie]

Ahhh, yes! Alien³ ...

... panned by critics...

...loathed by the director himself...

...despised by many who loved the original two...

I couldn't care less. I love the way it's shot. I love the way the story unfolds. I love the dark feel of the film. I do care about several of the characters. I think Sigourney is great, as is Charles Dutton. I love who they pooped all over Newt and Hicks and managed to impregnate Ripley with a queen. I love this film.

So what!

4.5 out of 5 stars and I'll watch it again.

[spectre08]

I think Alien 3 has the best cinematography of any of the Alien movies.

I like it as an early Fincher movie, not so much as an Alien movie though.

I've actually watched it both ways, as part of an Alien marathon and as part of a Fincher marathon, and it absolutely comes across better when bracketed by Fincher movies than by Alien movies.

[Bumblefeet]

Originally Posted by Adam_ME

Agreed. I'm sick of the Alien 3 apologists. It's funny how that movie was universally hated until Seven came out and Fincher gained a huge following. Then suddenly a bunch of people retroactively proclaimed their love for Alien 3 when I'll be damned if I could find a single fan of that movie back in 1992.

I absolutely loved Alien 3 the first time I saw it and I'm a huge fan of Cameron's Aliens. I'm glad it tried something different and I just love the disparaging mood of the movie, it's a great thriller.

It was the first Fincher movie I saw. Afterwards I liked se7en, but thought "The Game" and "Fight Club" were overhyped movies, I didn't care for them. "Zodiac" was a nice return to form and "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" one of the worst movies I've seen in the movie theater. So Fincher is hit or miss for me.

Alien 3 is as far as I'm concerned the final Ripley movie, Resurrection was just plain bad Aliens-wanna-be trash.