DTS-HD MA - Boy, has this question been beat to death. Quick Q.

[JJ]

As of this current moment, what is needed to enjoy DTS-HD MA from Fox movies? I'm talking about in terms of players and receivers. Thanks. Feel free to scare me with receiver prices. I don't mean DTS-HD MA converted to PCM either. Thanks in advance.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

I don't mean DTS-HD MA converted to PCM either

Why does it matter?

[BeardedNinjaGuy]

Your Panny player will bitstream it. (I have one as well)

As far as receivers, my HT system (in my sig) has the Onkyo 605 as the receiver. With both of those, I can get bitstreamed DTS HD-MA audio through my HDMI 1.3 cable.

As far as other Receivers, im not that well versed in them.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

Why does it matter?

I could've sworn someone said it wasn't the same.

[jsteinhauer]

Depends on who you listen to. Based on my interpretation of what DTS says about it, it can depend on the hardware used to decode. Some post-processing/mixing occurs and not all of the electronics is identical. But that does not mean your player can not be a better decoder than your receiver. There's a good chance the new Denon players will be superior to some existing receivers, but that remains to be seen.

The only way to know for sure would be to have someone analyze the output both ways. Someone may have done this, but I have not seen it referenced.

Like I said, this is my interpretation, not necessarily what is true, but I have not seen any supported arguments otherwise.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

I don't mean DTS-HD MA converted to PCM either.

Dts-HD MA is PCM.

(Dts-HD MA encode is just an efficient way to compress PCM audio Losslessly...when "decoded" it is converted back into its original PCM form, weather it be done in player or receiver)


High-Def FAQ: Uncompressed vs. Lossless Audio

[jsteinhauer]

From the DTS website:

DTS-HD Master Audio is capable of delivering audio that is a bit-for-bit identical to the studio master. With DTS-HD Master Audio you will experience movies and music exactly as the artist intended.
Bit-for-bit Identical

DTS-HD Master Audio delivers surround audio that is indistinguishable from the original soundtrack or music recording. The new high definition optical discs have far more capacity than standard DVDs. This allowed DTS to develop a surround sound format to deliver surround sound at super high bit rates - up to 24.5 Mbps on Blu-ray discs and 18.0 Mbps on HD-DVDs that are vastly superior to standard DVDs. This bit stream is so "fast" or the transfer rate is so "high" that it can deliver Lossless Audio, a "bit-for-bit" recreation of the original recording. The result is 7.1 channels of audio that are identical to the original studio master. With DTS-HD Master Audio you will experience movies and music exactly as the artist intended.

But they also show these two scenarios:

http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-mast...g-receiver.php

http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-mast...w-receiver.php

Now, theoretically, they should be identical. But you have to convince me that the decoder in one machine is as good as the decoder in another, and that the mixing/postprocessing/DAC is equally good, as well. It may be BIT for BIT, but that does not mean there are not some errors in those bits.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

Now, theoretically, they should be identical. But you have to convince me that the decoder in one machine is as good as the decoder in another

dts decoder will decode the same in any device.

and that the mixing/postprocessing/DAC is equally good, as well.

this is where any difference would be seen if any.

[JJ]

So I could just get my BD30, hook it up to a Onkyo 605, and get pure DTS-HD MA? Is it really this easy? I couldve sworn it wasn't.

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

So I could just get my BD30, hook it up to a Onkyo 605, and get pure DTS-HD MA? Is it really this easy? I couldve sworn it wasn't.

That's it playa. You have to hook it up via HDMI, of course. There are quite a few receivers now that do DTS-HD MA . . . the problem has been players to decode it or send it via bitstream. There are still no players that will internally decode it, AFAIK. All of the new Pioneer Elite's do, I know, and I think Denon's do as well . . . just depends on how much you want to spent. I have the Pioneer Elite 91 and I love it.

[BeardedNinjaGuy]

Originally Posted by BStecke

That's it playa. You have to hook it up via HDMI, of course. There are quite a few receivers now that do DTS-HD MA . . . the problem has been players to decode it or send it via bitstream. There are still no players that will internally decode it, AFAIK. All of the new Pioneer Elite's do, I know, and I think Denon's do as well . . . just depends on how much you want to spent. I have the Pioneer Elite 91 and I love it.

Pretty sure you need HDMI 1.3, not just regular HDMI.

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by BeardedNinjaGuy

Pretty sure you need HDMI 1.3, not just regular HDMI.

Any player or receiver that's capable of DTS-HD MA is going to be 1.3. Or are you talking about the cable itself? If you are, there's really no such thing as a "1.3 HDMI cable."

[BeardedNinjaGuy]

Originally Posted by BStecke

Any player or receiver that's capable of DTS-HD MA is going to be 1.3. Or are you talking about the cable itself? If you are, there's really no such thing as a "1.3 HDMI cable."

I meant the cable, and yes, there is such thing as a HDMI 1.3a / 1.3b version compatible cable.

The higher audio types require more bandwidth. The HDMI versions of cables have specific limits as to how much bandwidth they can pass.

You can read more about that here.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by BeardedNinjaGuy

I meant the cable, and yes, there is such thing as a HDMI 1.3a / 1.3b version compatible cable.

The higher audio types require more bandwidth. The HDMI versions of cables have specific limits as to how much bandwidth they can pass.

You can read more about that here.

Pretty sure the HDMI 1.3 cables you're talking about just mean they've been tested and approved for HDMI 1.3 usage.

[blindcat87]

There is no way to enjoy it without it being turned into PCM. Even bitstreamed. Decoding it turns it into PCM, that is the end result of all decoding.

Chris

[BeardedNinjaGuy]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Pretty sure the HDMI 1.3 cables you're talking about just mean they've been tested and approved for HDMI 1.3 usage.

If you read through the link I provided, basically put, there are varying types of HDMI devices. The newer ones will require cables made that can support the higher bandwidth/throughput the "high end" audio/video uses.

When buying / connecting / using HDMI cables, you may not get your True HD, or DTS-HD MA if it is not able to support that amount of bandwidth.

Hence why I say, you need a HDMI 1.3 version compatible cable. Now, this is if you want to Bitstream the audio. All versions of HDMI can send uncompressed audio (IE your player decodes). If you want it bitstreamed (your Receiver decodes) you WILL need a HDMI 1.3 compatible cable for DTS HD and True HD.

Brief description of the types..

HDMI 1.1
Released May 2004.

Added support for DVD Audio.

HDMI 1.2
Released August 2005.
Added support for One Bit Audio, used on Super Audio CDs, up to 8 channels.

Availability of HDMI Type A connector for PC sources.

Ability for PC sources to use native RGB color-space while retaining the option to support the YCbCr CE color space.

Requirement for HDMI 1.2 and later displays to support low-voltage sources.

HDMI 1.2a
Released December 2005.
Fully specifies Consumer Electronic Control (CEC) features, command sets, and CEC compliance tests.

HDMI 1.3
Released 22 June 2006.
Increases single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbit/s)

Optionally supports 30-bit, 36-bit, and 48-bit xvYCC with Deep Color or over one billion colors, up from 24-bit sRGB or YCbCr in previous versions.

Incorporates automatic audio syncing (Audio video sync) capability.
Optionally supports output of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams for external decoding by AV receivers. TrueHD and DTS-HD are lossless audio codec formats used on Blu-ray Discs and HD DVDs. If the disc player can decode these streams into uncompressed audio, then HDMI 1.3 is not necessary, as all versions of HDMI can transport uncompressed audio.

Availability of a new mini connector for devices such as camcorders.

HDMI 1.3a
Released 10 November 2006.
Cable and Sink modifications for Type C

Source termination recommendation

Removed undershoot and maximum rise/fall time limits.

CEC capacitance limits changed

RGB video quantization range clarification

CEC commands for timer control brought back in an altered form, audio control commands added.

Concurrently released compliance test specification included.