Heaven's Gate (1980)

[L'armée des ombres]

Hi all
Watched this long movie last night and was surprised how little bass info was on the LFE.
Before you begin to ask me about setting and so on, they are correct.
The night before i watched Pacific Rim and my living room rattled the whole length of that movie.
On my amp there is a little light indicator that lights up when LFE info is on.
Even in the lengthy battle in the end of HG it did not light up once
Is my copy faulty or is this something more?
So the question is: Is your copy OK? does it carry the LFE or .1 signal correctly?

[pro-bassoonist]

Such is the film's original sound design. In fact, the Blu-ray release offers a number of dramatic improvements in the audio department.

You obviously have never seen the film on DVD

Pro-B

[L'armée des ombres]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Such is the film's original sound design. In fact, the Blu-ray release offers a number of dramatic improvements in the audio department.

You obviously have never seen the film on DVD

Pro-B

Ok good to know.
They should have released it in 5.0 then.
And i had no desire of owning it on DVD

[jscoggins]

Clover Media is selling this for $11.50 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

[Christian Muth]

I saw an original 70mm print of this projected at the Library of Congress last April (in fact, it was the actual print that premiered in New York City and played for one week at the Cinema 1 before being pulled from release), and said print had some really deep bass where appropriate, notably during the big battle scene at the end. The dialogue was also more audible than the older video versions, akin to what the Criterion Blu-ray sounds like.

Visually, it was another story. The 70mm print (which was not faded and in mostly excellent condition barring some dirt here and there and one reel that had an emulsion dig right in the center of the frame throughout) looks NOTHING like the Criterion, with a much smoother grain structure compared to the frequently harsh grain on the Criterion 2K "restoration", and the color scheme had a pastel quality to it as opposed to the revised "Technicolor" look Cimino chose for the 2K remaster. It looked gorgeous, and it's a shame the Blu-ray doesn't replicate that look (in particular the grain structure). The print also had some footage that's not in any other version of the film I've ever seen (not even the original VHS), and it had the subtitles for the immigrant's dialogue but lacked any of the intertitles identifying the time changes and changes in location (which I imagine would have made the coda particularly confusing back in 1980). The 70mm print also ends with the freeze-frame of Averill in the cabin of the boat then a slow fade to black, just like the original MGM VHS.

Chris

[CyberpunkCentral]

R.I.P. Michael Cimino.

[Poya]

I hate how the review calls anyone who didn't like the film idiots. Like, sorry for having a different opinion, you piece of s---!

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Poya

I hate how the review calls anyone who didn't like the film idiots. Like, sorry for having a different opinion, you piece of s---!

I can understand both the love and the dislike for the movie. Even though it's one of my favorites, I know there are huge parts of the movie that aren't entertaining and are badly scripted... and yet there are large parts that are unforgettable and breathtaking. For me it's sort of like The Shining - lots of great stuff but also lots of frustrating stuff as well.

[Poya]

Originally Posted by English Patient

I can understand both the love and the dislike for the movie. Even though it's one of my favorites, I know there are huge parts of the movie that aren't entertaining and are badly scripted... and yet there are large parts that are unforgettable and breathtaking. For me it's sort of like The Shining - lots of great stuff but also lots of frustrating stuff as well.

I really like the film. It's a flawed masterpiece that didn't deserve to be a synonym for flop. It's just I don't like it when some are condescending and pretend that their views are the only one that is correct and calling others idiots for not agreeing. There are ways to express argument than resorting to that.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Poya

I really like the film. It's a flawed masterpiece that didn't deserve to be a synonym for flop. It's just I don't like it when some are condescending and pretend that their views are the only one that is correct and calling others idiots for not agreeing. There are ways to express argument than resorting to that.

Agreed. Unfortunately, since Heaven's Gate has been a critical punching bag for decades, there are some fans who are "overcorrecting" and calling the movie a perfect masterpiece with the same level of vehemence and intolerance as those original critics.

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Visually, it was another story. The 70mm print (which was not faded and in mostly excellent condition barring some dirt here and there and one reel that had an emulsion dig right in the center of the frame throughout) looks NOTHING like the Criterion, with a much smoother grain structure compared to the frequently harsh grain on the Criterion 2K "restoration", and the color scheme had a pastel quality to it as opposed to the revised "Technicolor" look Cimino chose for the 2K remaster. It looked gorgeous, and it's a shame the Blu-ray doesn't replicate that look (in particular the grain structure). The print also had some footage that's not in any other version of the film I've ever seen (not even the original VHS), and it had the subtitles for the immigrant's dialogue but lacked any of the intertitles identifying the time changes and changes in location (which I imagine would have made the coda particularly confusing back in 1980). The 70mm print also ends with the freeze-frame of Averill in the cabin of the boat then a slow fade to black, just like the original MGM VHS.

Chris

I'm glad you mentioned this because it isn't brought up nearly enough. Then again, I recall a critic claiming the restored print seemed a little too 'clean' or something along those lines.

Why didn't Criterion use that 70mm print? Any idea?

[Killer Meteor]

I love the film, flawed as it is. Didn't care for the lousy review though.

It's a bit of an odd director's cut though. It seems the only change from the premiere cut was to remove the intermission.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

I recall a critic claiming the restored print seemed a little too 'clean' or something along those lines.

I've seen the 2K restoration in theaters and it looked like nothing close to a film print. It had a clear digital look, despite being natural-looking on BD. I guess that's where you see the limitations of digital restorations.

[Frank@Chicago]

Bought a used copy of this movie on BD at a Disc Replay today for $20+.

That's a bit more than I would've liked, but I've always wanted to see this movie.

This is the kind of movie that film fans get excited about, so I'm glad to own it.

Also, it's unlikely I would ever see another used copy of this movie again.

[Ruemorgue10]

Originally Posted by Frank@Chicago

Bought a used copy of this movie on BD at a Disc Replay today for $20+.

That's a bit more than I would've liked, but I've always wanted to see this movie.

This is the kind of movie that film fans get excited about, so I'm glad to own it.

Also, it's unlikely I would ever see another used copy of this movie again.

Every film lover should see Heaven's Gate at least once. The cinematography is absolutely stunning! I maintain my belief that the story never lives up to its full potential, with Cimino concentrating too much on the the authenticity of the period rather than creating a focused plot and well developed characters. With a running length of nearly four hours, the narrative is way too simplistic.

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by Poya

I really like the film. It's a flawed masterpiece that didn't deserve to be a synonym for flop. It's just I don't like it when some are condescending and pretend that their views are the only one that is correct and calling others idiots for not agreeing. There are ways to express argument than resorting to that.

If you think that Heaven's Gate has nothing going for it like many critics said at the time, you might not be an idiot, but you probably don't know much about cinema, regardless of how many films you've seen.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

I saw an original 70mm print of this projected at the Library of Congress last April (in fact, it was the actual print that premiered in New York City and played for one week at the Cinema 1 before being pulled from release), and said print had some really deep bass where appropriate, notably during the big battle scene at the end. The dialogue was also more audible than the older video versions, akin to what the Criterion Blu-ray sounds like.

Visually, it was another story. The 70mm print (which was not faded and in mostly excellent condition barring some dirt here and there and one reel that had an emulsion dig right in the center of the frame throughout) looks NOTHING like the Criterion, with a much smoother grain structure compared to the frequently harsh grain on the Criterion 2K "restoration", and the color scheme had a pastel quality to it as opposed to the revised "Technicolor" look Cimino chose for the 2K remaster. It looked gorgeous, and it's a shame the Blu-ray doesn't replicate that look (in particular the grain structure). The print also had some footage that's not in any other version of the film I've ever seen (not even the original VHS), and it had the subtitles for the immigrant's dialogue but lacked any of the intertitles identifying the time changes and changes in location (which I imagine would have made the coda particularly confusing back in 1980). The 70mm print also ends with the freeze-frame of Averill in the cabin of the boat then a slow fade to black, just like the original MGM VHS.

Chris

The Criterion is admittedly revisionist so it's no surprise that it differs from prints of the film. The Criterion master is from YCM color separation elements which retains the color information of the negative and it was an intentional decision to reproduce the colors registered on the negative instead of color-matching it to a photochemically timed print.

Not to mention that the version seen on the Criterion is a brand new version of the film so it's kind of revisionist all round. I still love the disc though, if that's how Cimino wanted the film to be seen and I like the results then I'm happy.

[Frank@Chicago]

Originally Posted by Ruemorgue10

Every film lover should see Heaven's Gate at least once. The cinematography is absolutely stunning! I maintain my belief that the story never lives up to its full potential, with Cimino concentrating too much on the the authenticity of the period rather than creating a focused plot and well developed characters. With a running length of nearly four hours, the narrative is way too simplistic.

Watched my copy for the first time and knew almost nothing about the movie previously.

It's really nice to watch a long movie once and while, for the unique viewing experience.

I really loved Once Upon a Time in the West too.

The 1st hour you're not sure about it, the 2nd hour you're sitting up a bit, the 3rd hour you're on the edge of your seat.

I loved all the quiet moments and character bits scattered thru the movie, the way people brush their hair back and fidget awkwardly.

The waterfall of humanity and cruelty washes over you in this movie.

The needs and wants play out on a personal level and at a national level.

This movie is also 100% relevant today, nothing has changed.

[RedHarvest]

Anyone know how this new German mediabook differs from the Criterion set?

[DMRI2006]

The German set has the 155 minute cut (plus the long Director's Cut) on its own disc, plus some additional extras which I haven't entirely gone through. Weirdly it also says it has a commentary with the twilight time folks but it must've been a misprint because it's not on there.

Same transfer and I think the other Criterion extras are on the disc. It's a really nice looking Mediabook and its not that pricey either (was 16 Euros when I purchased it from Amazon.de). Would recommend if you like the film, especially if you think there's some value in the shorter version.