Dario Argento -- Genius or Hack?!

[Pedderrs]

I've watched a number of Dario Argento movies recently -- The Bird with the Crystal Plumage, Suspiria, Tenebre and Phenomena -- and I have to say, whilst I can really appreciate the man's sense of composition, I do find Argento's plots range from passable to downright ludicrous. I know the argument can be made that his films are primarily designed to unsettle and horrify and that he succeeds in doing those things more often than not, but are we supposed to completely overlook the lazy plot devices and ridiculous dialogue? I've heard fans of Argento neglect to address his inability to tell coherent stories by simply saying that such things are secondary to the cinematography and murder set pieces, but is this a valid excuse? Discuss.

[dallywhitty]

Love him. Inferno and Tenebrae are two of my favourite horror films. Yes, there are ridiculous lines and plot elements in his work, but this is a given with Italian horror cinema anyway and when everything else is so wonderful, it's easy to overlook them.

By the way, you're my favourite newbie and I'm thoroughly enjoying your horror-related threads. Keep it up.

[Foggy]

I wouldn't say he's either. But anyone who can pull off downright ludicrous like he can is good in my books.

[kp404]

Absolute genius. He's got four masterpieces (Bird With the Crystal Plummage, Deep Red, Suspiria, and Tenebrae), 3 Extremely good movies that are better than most of the mess coming out now(Inferno, Opera, Phenomena). That's a crazy 7 movie run.

Plot shouldn't be the ultimate determining factor for whether a director is great or not. So much goes into Argento films that they are truly original in sound, cinematography, direction, ideas, etc. His movies are terrifying (Suspiria), while also being funny (Deep Red does this best with its comedic elements), and thrilling (the endings of Tenebrae and Phenomena are still amazing to this day).

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Pedderrs

I've watched a number of Dario Argento movies recently -- The Bird with the Crystal Plumage, Suspiria, Tenebre and Phenomena -- and I have to say, whilst I can really appreciate the man's sense of composition, I do find Argento's plots range from passable to downright ludicrous. I know the argument can be made that his films are primarily designed to unsettle and horrify and that he succeeds in doing those things more often than not, but are we supposed to completely overlook the lazy plot devices and ridiculous dialogue? I've heard fans of Argento neglect to address his inability to tell coherent stories by simply saying that such things are secondary to the cinematography and murder set pieces, but is this a valid excuse? Discuss.

[Show spoiler]

Well, as someone for whom plot is about as important as popcorn (I HATE popcorn, btw), it's fine for me. Argento is all about how beautiful can one make the most horrific images? Suspiria is one of the most gorgeous films ever made IMO. I really don't care what the plot is. I just want to look at all those colors and images and angles and whacky stuff that happens.

But as I said, in film in general, I really don't care about plot much.

[Pedderrs]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Love him. Inferno and Tenebrae are two of my favourite horror films. Yes, there are ridiculous lines and plot elements in his work, but this is a given with Italian horror cinema anyway and when everything else is so wonderful, it's easy to overlook them.

Just to clarify my own position, I fully agree that Dario Argento's films can still be enjoyed and appreciated despite the silliness and implausibility. Tenebre is my favourite by a considerable distance for its elaborate set pieces and stunning cinematography. I actually listen to the soundtrack for pleasure quite frequently such is the quality of Goblin's work. The ludicrous plot devices are still there,

[Show spoiler]like Peter Neal hitting himself over the head

or the police failing to find the murder weapon at the journalist's house, but all this I can forgive.

Surprisingly though I didn't think much of Suspiria, which is generally considered to be Argento's finest work alongside Deep Red. The striking use of primary colours is stunning to look at but unfortunately I felt Suspiria reached its peak early on with the initial murder scene. Nothing that followed quite lived up to it and I was sorely disappointed by the finale. Suzy Bannion also lacked the charisma of a Peter Neal or Sam Dalmas. Poor Jessica Harper was given very little to do outside of looking puzzled and terrified.

In regards to Phenomena, I would actually go as far to say that it's a bad film and has very few redeeming qualities. The choice to use Iron Maiden in some scenes left me speechless. It was intrusive and didn't work on any level.

By the way, you're my favourite newbie and I'm thoroughly enjoying your horror-related threads. Keep it up.

Thanks buddy. I'm enjoying my time here.

[kp404]

Originally Posted by Pedderrs

Just to clarify my own position, I fully agree that Dario Argento's films can still be enjoyed and appreciated despite the silliness and implausibility. Tenebre is my favourite by a considerable distance for its elaborate set pieces and stunning cinematography. I actually listen to the soundtrack for pleasure quite frequently such is the quality of Goblin's work. The ludicrous plot devices are still there,

[Show spoiler]like Peter Neal hitting himself over the head

or the police failing to find the murder weapon at the journalist's house, but all this I can forgive.

Surprisingly though I didn't think much of Suspiria, which is generally considered to be Argento's finest work alongside Deep Red. The striking use of primary colours is stunning to look at but unfortunately I felt Suspiria reached its peak early on with the initial murder scene. Nothing that followed quite lived up to it and I was sorely disappointed by the finale. Suzy Bannion also lacked the charisma of a Peter Neal or Sam Dalmas. Poor Jessica Harper was given very little to do outside of looking puzzled and terrified.

In regards to Phenomena, I would actually go as far to say that it's a bad film and has very few redeeming qualities, if any. The choice to use Iron Maiden in some scenes left me speechless. It was intrusive and didn't work on any level.



Thanks buddy. I'm enjoying my time here.

Phenomena is an interesting movie; sometimes, I think its really good, but other times, its so incoherent and drags in some places that I dislike it. I can't really decide about it, but the kills, ending, and sound are all great. But its easy to see that the plot got away from Argento in the second half of the movie

[Pedderrs]

Originally Posted by kp404

Phenomena is an interesting movie; sometimes, I think its really good, but other times, its so incoherent and drags in some places that I dislike it. I can't really decide about it, but the kills, ending, and sound are all great. But its easy to see that the plot got away from Argento in the second half of the movie

I watched Phenomena through Mubi and the version they had uploaded would switch between English and Italian on occasion, so this obviously affected my viewing experience somewhat. I really do have a problem with the Iron Maiden track though. There must have been some other motivation for employing it because it didn't work and it's inconceivable to me that Argento himself would have thought otherwise. I appreciated the bizarre ending though.

[jacobsever]

I've only seen Bird with Crystal Plumage and Suspiria, and I liked both enough. Didn't love either, but enjoyed them.

[Lutz]

I outright shudder at the original post taking an axe to peak Argento when they'll obviously never go so as low as "Meatloaf in PELTS" Argento that *cough* some people will.

[AKORIS]

Argento films are very much like Mario Bava's efforts...

it's all about the visuals.

Plot, acting, script.... doesn't really matter.

and visually, both film makers are genius..

[Pedderrs]

Originally Posted by Lutz

I outright shudder at the original post taking an axe to peak Argento when they'll obviously never go so as low as "Meatloaf in PELTS" Argento that *cough* some people will.

I certainly didn't mean to come across as disparaging of Argento's work. I enjoyed The Bird with the Crystal Plumage and Suspiria, and I would go as far to say that Tenebrae is a truly great horror film that would in all probability make an appearance in my top 20 if such a list existed.

[P-Rock]

I like early, pre-90's Argento. After that he seems to have lost the plot entirely.

[LordCrumb]

I have the same inner debate when it comes to Quentin Tarantino.

[Pedderrs]

Originally Posted by P-Rock

I like early, pre-90's Argento. After that he seems to have lost the plot entirely.

On a scale of 1-10, how envious are you of dallywhitty's Blade Runner shrine?

[kp404]

Originally Posted by Lutz

I outright shudder at the original post taking an axe to peak Argento when they'll obviously never go so as low as "Meatloaf in PELTS" Argento that *cough* some people will.

The less said about that disaster "Pelts" the better...

[Zivouhr]

Not all films appeal to the mainstream audience due to their unique attributes, and often fall into the realm of an "acquired taste" of filmmaking, as could be said with Argento's style of horror and Lucio Fulci's horror as well. Plus the fact that many of these films are dubbed in English, translated from the original language, which affects the delivery of the lines to a degree. The pacing, storytelling are also unique with Argento.

With that in mind, it's best to go into these horror films with an open mind and as few expectations as possible to increase the entertainment value.

[Doctor Jack]

Never seen an Argento movie so I'll say hack.

[Pedderrs]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jack

Never seen an Argento movie so I'll say hack.

I would seriously suggest reserving your judgement until you see some of his films, Jack.

[Ray Jackson]

Genius when it comes to mood, suspense, atmosphere and visuals.

...lousy when it comes to telling a coherent story.