Black levels in LCD tvs.

[bone crusher]

Just wondering if you guys think that LVD flat panels will catch up to plasma and CRT tvs in terms of deep blacks and detail in black.

My dad has a 51" 1080i Toshiba rear projection HDTV that's about 4 years old and I have a 34" CRT HDTV from Toshiba as well and they both have awesome black depths and detail.

Then my buddy's parents bought a new 52" Sharp Aquos 1080p LCD and I was blown away by how clear the PQ on that TV but I still thought the one area that my tv and my Dad's tv were better were in blacks. There was alot of detail loss on that Sharp IMO compared to our tvs when in came to the darker scenes. I coudl imagine if you demoed a dark movie like Underworld on something on both tvs side by side that it would be painfully obvious.

So back to my original question; will LCD catch up?

[stockstar1138]

new samsungs and sonys have.

[turboedguy]

Originally Posted by bone crusher

Just wondering if you guys think that LVD flat panels will catch up to plasma and CRT tvs in terms of deep blacks and detail in black.

My dad has a 51" 1080i Toshiba rear projection HDTV that's about 4 years old and I have a 34" CRT HDTV from Toshiba as well and they both have awesome black depths and detail.

Then my buddy's parents bought a new 52" Sharp Aquos 1080p LCD and I was blown away by how clear the PQ on that TV but I still thought the one area that my tv and my Dad's tv were better were in blacks. There was alot of detail loss on that Sharp IMO compared to our tvs when in came to the darker scenes. I coudl imagine if you demoed a dark movie like Underworld on something on both tvs side by side that it would be painfully obvious.

So back to my original question; will LCD catch up?

yup, you should see mine.

[DepTii]

I was actually in a local Best Buy earlier today, wanted to catch a glimpse of the new Samsung 81 series, with the LED backlighting. It was very difficult to tell in the store with all the bright lights around, but you could certainly tell a difference with the LED Smartlighting on and with it off. The black levels were really nice, and the contrast was very good. Snapped a few pictures, and even though the quality sucks, it should give you a pretty good idea.

[MaleManGuy]

Originally Posted by bone crusher

Just wondering if you guys think that LVD flat panels will catch up to plasma and CRT tvs in terms of deep blacks and detail in black.

My dad has a 51" 1080i Toshiba rear projection HDTV that's about 4 years old and I have a 34" CRT HDTV from Toshiba as well and they both have awesome black depths and detail.

Then my buddy's parents bought a new 52" Sharp Aquos 1080p LCD and I was blown away by how clear the PQ on that TV but I still thought the one area that my tv and my Dad's tv were better were in blacks. There was alot of detail loss on that Sharp IMO compared to our tvs when in came to the darker scenes. I coudl imagine if you demoed a dark movie like Underworld on something on both tvs side by side that it would be painfully obvious.

So back to my original question; will LCD catch up?

There is more to a true picture than just contrast ratio though... you also have color accuracy issues on LCD's. Plasmas therefore tend to have better skin tones etc etc.
Of course true contrast ratio will be dependent on the lighting conditions in your room too.

[stockstar1138]

one thing that i have realized is that plasma and lcd are getting really, really close to being exactly the same in terms of quality. plasma no longer has the burn-in problems, lcd no longer has the black level, ghosting problems, banding if you get a good one. OLED is where its going to be at in 2 years though.

[JimSD]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

one thing that i have realized is that plasma and lcd are getting really, really close to being exactly the same in terms of quality. plasma no longer has the burn-in problems, lcd no longer has the black level, ghosting problems, banding if you get a good one.

I agree. I went from a Panasonic plasma to a Sony LCD (had a Sharp LCD for a short time too) and most of the time I don't notice which technology I'm watching. I haven't had an issue with either LCD in getting what I consider accurate colors. I remember reading a review last year of the 52" Sharp 92 series (probably on UltimateAV site) and the reviewer thought it had a plasma look and the only TV he thought was better was a Pioneer Elite plasma.

[Kruzifixxion]

Yup i have seen it and it has to be Samsung and Sony.Ive Seen the Sony 52" 120 hrts at the store last week and i was blown away of how incredible the picture looked.Some guy was also looking at it and was clearly impressed,they also showed us a Sammy 52" 120 hrts that is supposdly
better than Sony.Quite honestly, me and that stranger just like the Sony better,Not to say that im hating on Sammy,i also thought it looked awsome.

I still think Crt is the best for color acccuracy and rich blacks.
I have a Sony HDTV 34" tube coulnt be any happier with the pq.
My bro has a Panny plasy looks nice but seems to suffer in color and not as sharp as crt still looks awsome and nice blacks too.


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[dobyblue]

Sorry, but even the new LED sets do not hold a candle to the blacks of the Panasonic Viera and Pioneer Kuro sets.

They have made big improvements with Smart Dimming, but that's big improvements over the previous LCD's, it is not on the same astral plane as plasma.

Of other note, plasma sets are still substantially ahead of LCD for motion resolution.

http://hdguru.com/hd-guru-exclusive-...cd-102907/201/

White writing against a black background, produced a considerably higher black level—visually higher than blacks on Pioneer’s Kuro Plasma displaying the same content, but it was still very dark and darker than I have ever seen on an LCD flat panel.

[Arrakis]

Yep - I have a sharp Aquos 120 and in the store the black levels were comparable to the plasma it was sitting next to. Once I got it home - it was a different story. My room is pretty dark and while the blacks are good it still doesn't compare to what a Plasma can do.

[Toptube]

LCD has improved quite a bit, to the point that they are very acceptable. any scenes reasonably well lit look wonderful. true, really dark scenes with very little light is a bit greyed over even on the best panels. but its still very watchable. though, not comparable to CRT or even a decent plasma.

dynamic backlighting still has problems with things like campfires or constant rapid changes of lighting in the scene. but their benefit 90% of the time is pretty large, so its excuseable for an very specific problem.

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Arrakis

Yep - I have a sharp Aquos 120 and in the store the black levels were comparable to the plasma it was sitting next to. Once I got it home - it was a different story. My room is pretty dark and while the blacks are good it still doesn't compare to what a Plasma can do.

With LCDs (unlike with projectors) a little backlighting can improve your perceived contrast.

[Grisle]

I hope I can get a Pio Kuro soon...the blacks are amazing on those sets.

[CINEOS]

Originally Posted by HDJK

With LCDs (unlike with projectors) a little backlighting can improve your perceived contrast.

Maybe something called "Ambilight" is supposed to help???

[UKTruBlu]

I own the Samsung LE52m87bdx 51" 1080p, and ive never seen a picture like it. t even gives a great smooth finsh to standard def pictures.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by CINEOS

Maybe something called "Ambilight" is supposed to help???

It really is just a gimmick - but it is a cool gimmick. :ets his Philly ambilight: - but that has nothing to do with backlighting.

[Carmien]

This is a question has an answer that is part subjective and part reality.

I've calibrated my XBR5 (including moving the backlight down a notch or two) and find myself with an amazing rich, skin-colours-look-great-, deep, dark, non glossy experience.

I don't know that you can really compare these screens in the shops. They're calibrated for lighting (assuming they're calibrated) and the shop display plasma will be on as powerful as it can be. Half-life way be fervantly defended by plasma owners but it's as real as backlight life. The screens do wear out and it's a reality that cranking up that plasma full blast will shorten it's life. I can turn down the backlight, get great blacks, fantastic whites and likely have an LCD that'll be around for a while.

My brother in law has a plasma in his basement and I have to confess the glare from a window behind drives me a little nuts. It's a glossier screen. BUT, the blacks are rich and it's a smooth picture.

Can I say it's better than my XBR5? well, I've got a bias. But with 120Hz, motionflow for sports, and 1080/24p for my BD movie experience I'm simply not complaining. I really don't think the difference is as big as some would make out.

[Bobby Henderson]

I don't think anyone can really get away with issuing blanket statements anymore of what's better than the other in terms of the LCD versus Plasma debate.

My new 52" Sony Bravia XBR4 TV has fantastic image quality. It looked better than a lot of plasma TVs I examined. The only TV I saw that looked any better was Pioneer's 60" Kuro plasma, selling for around $6000.

[Sonny]

I think the PQ of plazzy's are better, but top notch LCD's are right there . My XBR5 is VERY VERY nice & I'm going to end up keeping it too probably (I was going to take it back).

[Kruzifixxion]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I don't think anyone can really get away with issuing blanket statements anymore of what's better than the other in terms of the LCD versus Plasma debate.

My new 52" Sony Bravia XBR4 TV has fantastic image quality. It looked better than a lot of plasma TVs I examined. The only TV I saw that looked any better was Pioneer's 60" Kuro plasma, selling for around $6000.

Yeah i agree that 52 inch Sony is amazing and it's my next purchase!