Massive 4K UHD Replication QC issue?

[Ruined]

This seems worthy of its own topic as people may not be aware of what appears to be the broad scope of this issue, buried in some of the other threads.

First we had reports of DUNE 4K UHD intermittent pixelation across multiple players at a similar time index

Then THE THING 4K UHD (UK CE only) again with the same intermittent pixelation at same time index symptom

Now, HALLOWEEN II 4K UHD is apparently having the same intermittent pixelation symptoms at same time index!

This sounds like to me like a massive replication defect at one of the major plants, with three major releases affected in the same way. Who knows what other recent 4K discs are affected given the problem is intermittent? No one watches their movies 5 times through in the return period to ensure there is no pixelation!

This is very concerning for those buying 4K UHD discs, as it may play fine the first time, but then have issues the 2nd or 3rd time which may not happen for a year down the road.

Reminds me of disc rot, but instead seems to be a slight defect that is in the disc from the very beginning, and some players handle it better than others - but even that is inconsistent since it is likely relying in error correction whether the defect is exposed or not for each playback.

[dylrichard02]

Don't forget the Donnie Darko stutter/framerate issue.

[AndyMT]

Wasn't DD an authoring issue ?

I really don't want a repeat of HD-DVD ... all my Warner ones failed.

[Dubliner1]

...could also be a problem with the 4K UHD players rather than the discs?

[Geoff D]

The Thing CE was NOT released by StudioCanal. But yes, it seems to be happening more and more lately and it may well be something we have to put up with as replication capacity dwindles and the plants that are left aren't being run at 100% in terms of the available materials and personpower.

[Fjodor2000]

Are we assuming these are issues affecting whole batches of discs?

If so, how about this for a simple QC check: Periodically pull out sample discs from the production line and do an automatic full diff against the source data. If any difference found => Investigate & fix. Quick and easy.

I'd be surprised if they don't already do that, but on the other hand the issues mentioned here ought to have been caught then, but obviously they haven't.

[Geoff D]

Which ties into personpower as mentioned above. There might not be enough people to do proper QC.

[Fjodor2000]

The QC check I mentioned should be possible to automate. At least up until the point where an error is found in a sample, but if they'd leave it uninvestigated at that point it's really crazy.

[Vangeli]

Pretty much any boxset from Warner is guaranteed to have random issues, I’ve found. With so many discs it’s much more likely. Harry Potter, LotR, Game of Thrones, etc.

At least in the US. Kind of a huge pain.

[Braktastic]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

Pretty much any boxset from Warner is guaranteed to have random issues, I’ve found. With so many discs it’s much more likely. Harry Potter, LotR, Game of Thrones, etc.

At least in the US. Kind of a huge pain.

That's interesting. WB is not a studio that I personally associate with 4K UHD issues. Disney, SF, and Universal (when they use sleeves) scratched discs, check. Arrow playback issues, most definitely. But I had WB up there with Sony has one of the most problem free studios.

All I got to say is they better get this sorted because it's driving me toward streaming more and more each time it happens, and the conspiracy theorist in me would say that's all either by design or an unexpected side benefit for the cost-cutting studios so it further reduces their motivation to provide a quality product.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000

The QC check I mentioned should be possible to automate. At least up until the point where an error is found in a sample, but if they'd leave it uninvestigated at that point it's really crazy.

Most QC is automated, but it's that final step of just having a real person check the disc that is the lacking factor. Always has been I guess, but it's starting to bite now that the replication standards are slipping.

[Fjodor2000]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Most QC is automated, but it's that final step of just having a real person check the disc that is the lacking factor. Always has been I guess, but it's starting to bite now that the replication standards are slipping.

That's the point though, there is no need to have a real person check the disc. It's simple to automate completely. Only the investigation if error found needs to be manual.

[Spooked]

I think the format in general has problems. It's one reason I've avoided jumping all the way in thus far - the discs just seem to be even more finicky than blu-rays. (I still maintain that I've had fewer problems with DVDs than any other format, which is a little sobering.)

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Spooked

I think the format in general has problems. It's one reason I've avoided jumping all the way in thus far - the discs just seem to be even more finicky than blu-rays. (I still maintain that I've had fewer problems with DVDs than any other format, which is a little sobering.)

Which kind of makes sense, as they pack more and more data onto the same small discs and make the pits carrying the data smaller and smaller to accommodate. The discs will be much more prone to playback errors with fingerprints and small smudges etc. vs. a DVD which has much larger physical "pits" on the discs themselves.

Chris

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

A few notes:

I had some discs, blu-ray and UHD that had bad sectors. I thought maybe it some cases my PC drive was just finicky, but then the motor died and with the new PC drive I see that it finds the exact same sectors bad on the exact same discs so I think the disc errors I had were flat out disc issues.

It does seem like discs are somewhat more likely to have errors over the last few years than earlier on (aside from known problem discs of the earliest era where some get that rot).

My first copy of Zach Snyder's Justice League had disc 1 of the UHD a total mess, riddled with more disc errors than I have ever encountered before by far. The replacement set's UHD disc 1 had zero disc errors and worked and verified just fine.

I find that DVDs can look a mess and still work fine with zero sector errors. Blu-ray, if they look a total mess, might have sector errors. UHD the slightest fingerprint or even just remnants of some sort of invisiable coating left over from manufacturing not washed off with detergent can sometimes give them a few errors that 100% disappear after cleaning.

Very minor hairline scratches I don't find cause many errors at all whether it is DVD, blu-ray or UHD. I've seen some horrendous looking rental sourced DVDs with nonethless zero sector errors or playback issues (although a few of those total messes do have problems). DVD do scratch much more easily than blu-ray or UHD. Some go nuts over finding a tiny hairline on a UHD and return it, etc. but I really don't find that tends to cause any sector errors when PC verifying a disc. In fact so far I've had zero instances where a bad UHD was because of that. All my bad UHD have either looked 100% utterly pristine (and simply had a pressing error) or have an small thin line in an arc that maybe looks like a scratch but is some sort of mini bubble or defect in layer bonding or something (I've had a few with these and I believe all but one had sector errors, maybe all). I have yet to have a scratch of any sort actually cause any UHD errors so far (I also haven't seen many scratches). I wouldn't be paranoid about a UHD loose in case new and returning them. These discs are harder than anything in the case and so should not scratch and even if they somehow did I believe it's only super rarely ever a problem. The real issues are badly pressed discs and surface bonding manufacturing defects. You could end up returning perfectly working discs for bum ones.

I seem to find European market UHD are a lot more prone to thrash my drive and a bit more prone to have reading issues than US market UHD overall so far.

[Braktastic]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

...with the new PC drive I see that it finds the exact same sectors bad on the exact same discs so I think the disc errors I had were flat out disc issues.

May I ask what drive and software are you using to verify your 4K UHD?

Thanks.

[lquevideo]

well, can someone format something so we know what to look for
movie, time, specifics.
im willing to to help, breaking in a new tv.
i do agree as said above, but sometimes a simple wipe down is all you need. or a reset/fw update.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by dylrichard02

Don't forget the Donnie Darko stutter/framerate issue.

That's more an authoring issue , which is a lot less sinister than large scale, random replicated out of spec discs whose defects may not surface on the first playback or even second playback and may behave differently in different players.

[Energy Crisis]

I think it's imperative to note exactly what players and circumstances are showing the issues with each disc, especially when initially reporting problems. Otherwise there's no way of knowing who will or won't be affected or if a pressing is just flat out defective across the board. We need to know make/model of the player, firmware, DV/HDR10 playback, etc. I see far too many posts when a new release drops that just say 'I'm having X issue at Y time, anybody else?' with no other information provided to determine what's actually going wrong. Ideally every disc should work for everybody, but since that's not the world we live in let's at least make the effort to get to the bottom of it. The variables are important.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Energy Crisis

I think it's imperative to note exactly what players and circumstances are showing the issues with each disc, especially when initially reporting problems. Otherwise there's no way of knowing who will or won't be affected or if a pressing is just flat out defective across the board. We need to know make/model of the player, firmware, DV/HDR10 playback, etc. I see far too many posts when a new release drops that just say 'I'm having X issue at Y time, anybody else?' with no other information provided to determine what's actually going wrong. Ideally every disc should work for everybody, but since that's not the world we live in let's at least make the effort to get to the bottom of it. The variables are important.

Soooo much this. I'll sound like a prick here (eh, what's new) but it genuinely baffles me whenever people do that "'I'm having X issue at Y time, anybody else?'" thing without saying anything else. Even if people don't know all the particulars you noted down, just saying what fookin player they're using would be enough.