Why I STILL hate Toshiba - Blu-ray Forum

radagast · 03-05-2008, 01:42 PM

There are people here who don't understand the animosity some of the rest of us feel for Toshiba. Well reading statements from the CEO of Toshiba, in the Wall Street Journal, should help explain why:

Quote:

WSJ: Aren't you at a disadvantage with just standard DVD players?

Mr. Nishida: What people don't realize is that Hollywood studios are going to release new titles not just for Blu-ray but for standard DVDs as well, and there are a far greater number of current-generation DVD players out there. If you watch standard DVDs on our players, the images are of very high quality because they include an "upconverting" feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images. The players would be much cheaper than Blu-ray players too. Next-generation DVD players are in a much weaker position than when standard DVD players were first introduced."

WSJ: Will you try to play a role in the video-downloading market?

Mr. Nishida: That's what we're hoping. We've been developing technologies in this area already, but now that we don't have the HD DVD business, I want to put even more energy into that."

First of all, why are they spending R&D on TWO fronts: upconverting DVD players AND downloads? If their &*%$*(@ DVD players will be able to look as good as hd-dvd (notice he didn't say it would look as good as Blu-ray), then why promote downloads? If downloads are going to be of such high quality that they will rival Blu-ray, why invest in upconverting DVD players? If they could have come up with HD video from upconverting DVD, why did they come out with hd-dvd in the first place? Lies all lies.

mystiksuicide · 03-05-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radagast

There are people here who don't understand the animosity some of the rest of us feel for Toshiba. Well reading statements from the CEO of Toshiba, in the Wall Street Journal, should help explain why:

First of all, why are they spending R&D on TWO fronts: upconverting DVD players AND downloads? If their &*%$*(@ DVD players will be able to look as good as hd-dvd (notice he didn't say it would look as good as Blu-ray), then why promote downloads? If downloads are going to be of such high quality that they will rival Blu-ray, why invest in upconverting DVD players? If they could have come up with HD video from upconverting DVD, why did they come out with hd-dvd in the first place? Lies all lies.

Those are just the words of a CEO who got his azz handed to him in a humiliating defeat. It's all a bunch of crap.

radagast · 03-05-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystiksuicide

Those are just the words of a CEO who got his azz handed to him in a humiliating defeat. It's all a bunch of crap.

They are doing this for one reason and one reason only:

To destroy Blu-ray.

They will come up with some enhanced up-converting and spend millions advertising it to convince people it looks as good as Blu-ray. Then their paid shills will write column after column stating they can't tell the difference. Then the trolls will start invading this forum.

And people may hold back on buying Blu-ray waiting to see if either downloads or upconverting DVD is as good, thus slowing down the market acceptance of Blu-ray over DVD.

tron3 · 03-05-2008, 02:03 PM

I've said this many times. It is a political statagy called "muddying the waters". If the opponent calls you a liar, you call them a liar right back. Soon, no one knows for sure who is telling the truth.

Seems like a lot of time and money spent on something ELSE which won't fly. I'll worry about it when I see and hear people saying that upconversion is the same. Then I'll send them to the local BB or CC to look at the blu-ray display.

Upconversion is nice, but much like Digital VHS, Super VHS, SuperBit DVD, HD DVD, and regular DVD, it is too little too late.

meckel · 03-05-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystiksuicide

Those are just the words of a CEO who got his azz handed to him in a humiliating defeat. It's all a bunch of crap.

I argee with Mystik on this. All he is trying to do is spin the lose my saying it was never a big deal. That is until the stockholders see how much they lost on HD-DVD. It's all BS and corporate spin.

Check out Bill's Hunts web site I think he nails it

meckel · 03-05-2008, 02:11 PM

here is the link

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

From thedigitalbits.com:
For the record, this idea that upconverted standard DVD video quality will EVER look as good as true high-definition video is complete hogwash. Upconverting basically takes 480p video and mathematically adds scan lines to increase the effective output resolution to 1080p. The problem is that this process effectively magnifies the original video image. So if the 480p video has warts or defects (whether on the original film print or compression artifacting in the DVD master), those are going to be even more noticeable when upconverted. It's the old "garbage in, garbage out" principle. On the other hand, many of the new transfers being done for true high-definition releases on Blu-ray (and for a time HD-DVD) are actually being done at 2K or even 4K or higher resolution, and then they're downconverted to 1080p. That allows the maximum possible image detail to be included in the signal. An upconverted 480p DVD is NEVER going to be able to compete with that. That's not to say that upconverted DVDs may not be good enough for some consumers, but this idea that you won't be able to tell the difference is utter nonsense. Anyone who becomes interested in high-def, and there are more and more such consumers all the time, will see right through this.

Bluoholic · 03-05-2008, 02:33 PM

It's all business kiddo.

hc666 · 03-05-2008, 02:40 PM

Yeah get a life. I still can't get over the people taking this stuff personal.

I'm sure Toshiba is losing sleep at night that you still hate them. They are still rich and not caring what you or anyone else in here thinks.

All business for sure. They will make a blu ray player, they're not dumb. If there is money to be made there will show up for the party.

radagast · 03-05-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hc666

Yeah get a life. I still can't get over the people taking this stuff personal.

I'm sure Toshiba is losing sleep at night that you still hate them. They are still rich and not caring what you or anyone else in here thinks.

All business for sure. They will make a blu ray player, they're not dumb. If there is money to be made there will show up for the party.

I knew I could count on you. Maybe you should avoid threads like this if you ALWAYS disagree with them. I know how YOU feel. You don't need to say the same tired things over and over. They will not make a Blu-ray player. Get over it.

Sling · 03-05-2008, 07:27 PM

Im with you on the hate Toshiba feeling radagast. Toshiba is doing anything possible to to clip blu-ray and it pisses me off!
Toshiba's crappy SUCing promote new SUC-fanboys HD enthusiast want to Be's trying to save a dime inturn the FUD never seems to end.

STI Jaguar · 03-06-2008, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sling

Im with you on the hate Toshiba feeling radagast. Toshiba is doing anything possible to to clip blu-ray and it pisses me off!
Toshiba's crappy SUCing promote new SUC-fanboys HD enthusiast want to Be's trying to save a dime inturn the FUD never seems to end.

YUP, I refuse to buy any Toshiba products for all the reasons on this thread. Laptops, tvs, anything Toshiba, I will find another replacement. And there are lots out there that does it better too. There isn't a single Must Have Toshiba product.

Dragonraine · 03-06-2008, 01:15 AM

i like toshiba

Kirsty_Mc · 03-06-2008, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonraine

i like toshiba

I have a Toshiba quartz clock from the mid 1970's and it is still working very well indeed. Things seem to have slipped a bit.

It is the only thing Toshiba that I have (apart from all sorts of chips in other peoples gear).

pro-bassoonist · 03-06-2008, 07:09 AM

Well, their attitude will certainly have a great deal of resonance with a lot of consumers.

Pro-B

Blu Falcon · 03-06-2008, 09:23 PM

I love Toshiba.

Rabidhunter · 03-06-2008, 09:38 PM

Two years ago I bougt an upconverting DVD player from Toshiba. It works good, except for the fact that every once in awhile, it'll shut off randomly (I think when there are scratches in the disk). It still doesn't have the look or the sound that comes from my PS3. The clear advantage is Blu-Ray, no matter how good the upconverting power, the DVD's will scratch and will cause hiccups in players.

03-05-2008, 02:03 PM	#4
tron3 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2004 Location:New Jersey Blu-ray reviews:3	I've said this many times. It is a political statagy called "muddying the waters". If the opponent calls you a liar, you call them a liar right back. Soon, no one knows for sure who is telling the truth. Seems like a lot of time and money spent on something ELSE which won't fly. I'll worry about it when I see and hear people saying that upconversion is the same. Then I'll send them to the local BB or CC to look at the blu-ray display. Upconversion is nice, but much like Digital VHS, Super VHS, SuperBit DVD, HD DVD, and regular DVD, it is too little too late. Last edited by tron3; 03-05-2008 at 02:06 PM.

03-05-2008, 07:27 PM	#10
Sling Special Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Virginia Beach Blu-ray reviews:2	Im with you on the hate Toshiba feeling radagast. Toshiba is doing anything possible to to clip blu-ray and it pisses me off! Toshiba's crappy SUCing promote new SUC-fanboys HD enthusiast want to Be's trying to save a dime inturn the FUD never seems to end. Last edited by Sling; 03-05-2008 at 07:30 PM.

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03-05-2008, 02:11 PM	#6
meckel Senior Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Nashville, TN 4K collection:775 Blu-ray collection:3056	here is the link http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents From thedigitalbits.com: For the record, this idea that upconverted standard DVD video quality will EVER look as good as true high-definition video is complete hogwash. Upconverting basically takes 480p video and mathematically adds scan lines to increase the effective output resolution to 1080p. The problem is that this process effectively magnifies the original video image. So if the 480p video has warts or defects (whether on the original film print or compression artifacting in the DVD master), those are going to be even more noticeable when upconverted. It's the old "garbage in, garbage out" principle. On the other hand, many of the new transfers being done for true high-definition releases on Blu-ray (and for a time HD-DVD) are actually being done at 2K or even 4K or higher resolution, and then they're downconverted to 1080p. That allows the maximum possible image detail to be included in the signal. An upconverted 480p DVD is NEVER going to be able to compete with that. That's not to say that upconverted DVDs may not be good enough for some consumers, but this idea that you won't be able to tell the difference is utter nonsense. Anyone who becomes interested in high-def, and there are more and more such consumers all the time, will see right through this.

03-05-2008, 02:33 PM	#7
Bluoholic Expert Member Member since:Dec 2007 4K collection:1 Blu-ray collection:482 Trading Score:1	It's all business kiddo.

03-05-2008, 02:40 PM	#8
hc666 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Nov 2007 Home Theater Gallery:7 Blu-ray collection:100 Blu-ray reviews: 26	Yeah get a life. I still can't get over the people taking this stuff personal. I'm sure Toshiba is losing sleep at night that you still hate them. They are still rich and not caring what you or anyone else in here thinks. All business for sure. They will make a blu ray player, they're not dumb. If there is money to be made there will show up for the party.

03-06-2008, 01:15 AM	#12
Dragonraine Banned Member since:Jan 2008	i like toshiba

03-06-2008, 07:09 AM	#14
pro-bassoonist Blu-ray reviewer Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:X Home Theater Gallery:47 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:- Blu-ray reviews: 31 Trading Score:23	Well, their attitude will certainly have a great deal of resonance with a lot of consumers. Pro-B

03-06-2008, 09:23 PM	#15
Blu Falcon Senior Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:MD Blu-ray reviews: 9 Trading Score:1	I love Toshiba.

03-06-2008, 09:38 PM	#16
Rabidhunter Senior Member Member since:Feb 2008	Two years ago I bougt an upconverting DVD player from Toshiba. It works good, except for the fact that every once in awhile, it'll shut off randomly (I think when there are scratches in the disk). It still doesn't have the look or the sound that comes from my PS3. The clear advantage is Blu-Ray, no matter how good the upconverting power, the DVD's will scratch and will cause hiccups in players.

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