Index Corp/Atlus insolvent

[Snake_XRS]

According to this article, Index Corp (owner of Atlus) is insolvent and in danger of going under. Apparently they lost a ton of money on mobile and casual gaming. If true, horrible news for Persona and Catherine fans.


UPDATE: clean link attached, thanks Icemage
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/04/15...gs-is-in-debt/

[Trogdor2010]

Why is the story on a hentai site? (I'm asking since I'm at a university computer).

NSFW!

But still is sad to hear. Persona 4 is one of my favorite RPGs, even though I have reservations on the dungeon crawling gameplay, the social sim gameplay elements and character development especially are brilliant. I've been wanting to play the other Shin Megami Tensei games (right now I'm on Persona 3, even though I'm having alot more problems dungeon crawling that P4). Sad I was introduced to these games at their demise.

[Snake_XRS]

I'm pretty bummed TBH. I've always supported Atlus from the days of Odin Sphere, P3 FES, & P4. Also, without them we wouldn't have gotten to play Demon's Souls, and without the success of Demon's Souls Dark Souls (1 & 2) may never have gotten made.

This gen I picked up Catherine and P4 Arena. I was also EAGERLY awaiting P5, but TBH I couldn't figure out why it has taken so many years to come out. This is almost as bad as the Bayonetta 2 going to Wii U news

[Icemage]

You might want to replace that link with a cleaner one from Siliconera:

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/04/15...gs-is-in-debt/

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by Trogdor2010

Why is the story on a hentai site? (I'm asking since I'm at a university computer).

NSFW!

But still is sad to hear. Persona 4 is one of my favorite RPGs, even though I have reservations on the dungeon crawling gameplay, the social sim gameplay elements and character development especially are brilliant. I've been wanting to play the other Shin Megami Tensei games (right now I'm on Persona 3, even though I'm having alot more problems dungeon crawling that P4). Sad I was introduced to these games at their demise.

If it's the site I am thinking of. it's like a mixture of Hentai, Videogames, and Anime news.

Atlus/Index Holdings are not at their demise, but I do think they are making way too many videogames for a niche company like all of these Shin Megami Tensei games for the 3DS, Shin Megami Tensei Persona series, and so on. Even though they're not Developing it, but Dragon's Crown has taken too long to Develop. So it's not surprising that they're suffering.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by Snake_XRS

I'm pretty bummed TBH. I've always supported Atlus from the days of Odin Sphere, P3 FES, & P4. Also, without them we wouldn't have gotten to play Demon's Souls, and without the success of Demon's Souls Dark Souls (1 & 2) may never have gotten made.

This gen I picked up Catherine and P4 Arena. I was also EAGERLY awaiting P5, but TBH I couldn't figure out why it has taken so many years to come out. This is almost as bad as the Bayonetta 2 going to Wii U news

Well Bayonetta 2 being only on the Wii U is because Platinum Games were not satisfied with the sales of Bayonetta and thinking putting it on the Wii U will make it sell better. Plus I think they still feel sour at how badly they handled the PS3 version.

The Persona Team is still working on a Persona game which has been in Development for who knows how long. Don't forget it took a couple to maybe even a few years for the Persona Team to make Catherine. Plus with the way Persona 4 Arena ended, you can count on a Persona 4 Arena 2.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by MOONPHASE

Well Bayonetta 2 being only on the Wii U is because Platinum Games were not satisfied with the sales of Bayonetta and thinking putting it on the Wii U will make it sell better. Plus I think they still feel sour at how badly they handled the PS3 version.

Actually, it's more along the lines of Bayonetta not meeting their sales expectations and them not having the money and inclination to produce it themselves.

Worth noting that the topic is about Atlus/Index, not Platinum Games / Sega / Nintendo / Bayonetta (just so people are clear that these are unrelated).

The Persona Team is still working on a Persona game which has been in Development for who knows how long. Don't forget it took a couple to maybe even a few years for the Persona Team to make Catherine. Plus with the way Persona 4 Arena ended, you can count on a Persona 4 Arena 2.

Hmm... Arc System Works did P4A, and that title was a disaster in terms of launch. It's STILL not out in Europe, and it's one of the only PS3 titles to ever get region locked. If I were Atlus, I'd do a serious rethink their release plans before considering a sequel.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Actually, it's more along the lines of Bayonetta not meeting their sales expectations and them not having the money and inclination to produce it themselves.

Worth noting that the topic is about Atlus/Index, not Platinum Games / Sega / Nintendo / Bayonetta (just so people are clear that these are unrelated).


Hmm... Arc System Works did P4A, and that title was a disaster in terms of launch. It's STILL not out in Europe, and it's one of the only PS3 titles to ever get region locked. If I were Atlus, I'd do a serious rethink their release plans before considering a sequel.

But you have to admit that Platinum Games made Bayonetta 2 a Wii U exclusive for hoping for better sales.

Persona 4 Arena was released too soon in America. So the Japanese company thought of the plan of making it Region-Locked even on PS3 just so that Japanese fans don't import it since it actually includes the Japanese audio. If the Japanese audio was removed, it wouldn't be Region-Locked, but will piss off Japanese voices purists. Though I don't think Japanese audio was ever included in Persona games before. Persona 4 Arena I believe comes out in May for Europe. Persona 4 The Animation on the American Blu-rays even removes the Japanese audio just to satisfy the Japanese company. DVD version however does have the Japanese audio.

Atlus has been also been working on Persona 3 movies. They also had Persona Trinity Soul which NIS America released on DVD. So really I think they're spending a lot of money and then trying to reclaim all of it by having all of their projects to be top sellers. But they need to realize they're just a niche company.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by MOONPHASE

But you have to admit that Platinum Games made Bayonetta 2 a Wii U exclusive for hoping for better sales.

I don't have to admit anything of the sort.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2013...platinum-games

Originally Posted by Polygon interviews Tatsuya Minami of Platinum Games

Minami says the biggest challenge running Platinum is finding new work for the team.

Asked to rate Platinum's progress over the past five years, he gives the developers at the studio an A. "The team has been working really hard," he says. "They've held up their end of the bargain and done a really good job of putting out really high-quality games."

On the business side, he's less enthusiastic. "Whether we've sold as well as we would have liked, or whether the company has the amount of money that everybody would love to have in the company, I think I'd probably rate it as a C or even a D.

"We obviously grew up being part of the domestic Japanese market — a lot of our staff spent time in domestic Japanese publishers, focused really on the domestic Japanese market. And now we're trying to expand and focus more outward and think about gamers worldwide. But when you think about what global success really means, that means we need to be selling more titles. Our games need to sell more copies."

As of the end of 2012, Bayonetta was Platinum's best seller, moving over a million units. But Minami says that's not good enough. "Bayonetta didn't sell what we wanted it to sell," he says. "We were hoping it was going to do a little bit better than that, though you can't put it all on the game itself. I think there were a lot of issues with when it came out, the kind of marketing behind it."

"I think the one thing that we want more than anything in the immediate future ... is for people to understand that we're making games here in Japan, but we're making games for everybody."

Boldfaced for emphasis.

More to the point, no one is putting games on Wii U "hoping for better sales". Anyone with a lick of sense could see that Nintendo was making a product for a nearly-nonexistent market, and the guys at Platinum Games aren't dummies. What they are, however, is interested in staying employed, and having Nintendo foot the bill to keep their studio lights on while they worked on other things too makes a lot of sense.

So the Japanese company thought of the plan of making it Region-Locked even on PS3 just so that Japanese fans don't import it since it actually includes the Japanese audio.

Let's call a spade a spade. P4A was way more expensive in Japan than in North America, so region locking was a way to prevent Japanese players from importing a cheaper copy with the Japanese audio (plus they get the English as a bonus feature).

It wasn't about "pissing off" Japanese gamers. They'd have been thrilled to get the version we got in North America. It was about money, plain and simple. Ditto goes for the EU version, which is not only delayed, but also - surprise surprise - significantly more expensive than the North American version.

[bobbydrugar]

I Think they meant pissing off American Dub Haters by not including the Japanese track on Persona 4 Arena with the American release, not pissing off the Japanese people in Japan. There is a very vocal Anime fandom in the US that gets really pissy when something that was originally in another language gets a DUB for mass appeal because it is sacrilage to DUB something.

Thanks,
T

[tarvis]

Originally Posted by bobbydrugar

I Think they meant pissing off American Dub Haters by not including the Japanese track on Persona 4 Arena with the American release, not pissing off the Japanese people in Japan. There is a very vocal Anime fandom in the US that gets really pissy when something that was originally in another language gets a DUB for mass appeal because it is sacrilage to DUB something.

I wouldn't want to watch a film with Ashton Kutcher dubbed by Patrick Stewart just because the latter is a better actor. Like what was done in many Italian films. Dubbing is stupid, regardless of the medium.

[bobbydrugar]

But I would like to play a fighting game without having to read sub titles.

Your example is foolish since both ashton and patrick speak english and reguardless of which voice is heard it would be understood by the general audience it was intended for (an english speaking American Audience). However if one spoke french and the other English it is an easier transition for people to enjoy a Visual medium without having to focus on reading the dialog. Can it be done? Of course but that basically says that the director and cinimatographer and physical expressions and gestures of the actor and camerawork used in the medium are all just second players to the spoken word. Works well on the radio not as good for film or in this case a Video game that you should already be focusing your attention on something else like what is going on on the screen.

Not trying to start a war, was just adding clarity to a point made earlier that seemed to be misunderstood.

More on topic I hope this does not affect future Shin Mega and Persona Games. Since Working Designs went away I have Relied on Atlus and NIS America for Games not called Call of Duty, Killzone, Etc. and if they leave the market that will leave a very big hole that might likely never be filled.

Thanks,
T

[tarvis]

Originally Posted by bobbydrugar

But I would like to play a fighting game without having to read sub titles.

Your example is foolish since both ashton and patrick speak english and reguardless of which voice is heard it would be understood by the general audience it was intended for (an english speaking American Audience).

What I wrote is apt because I'm pointing out that it doesn't matter why something is dubbed. It is a ridiculous practice. Krull, for example. I fail to see how a subtitled fighting game is any different than having to read the arbitrary text after a match in any Capcom fighting game. It is stubbornness on the part of those that prefer dubbing. Not on the part of those that prefer original language.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by bobbydrugar

But I would like to play a fighting game without having to read sub titles.

Your example is foolish since both ashton and patrick speak english and reguardless of which voice is heard it would be understood by the general audience it was intended for (an english speaking American Audience). However if one spoke french and the other English it is an easier transition for people to enjoy a Visual medium without having to focus on reading the dialog. Can it be done? Of course but that basically says that the director and cinimatographer and physical expressions and gestures of the actor and camerawork used in the medium are all just second players to the spoken word. Works well on the radio not as good for film or in this case a Video game that you should already be focusing your attention on something else like what is going on on the screen.

Not trying to start a war, was just adding clarity to a point made earlier that seemed to be misunderstood.

More on topic I hope this does not affect future Shin Mega and Persona Games. Since Working Designs went away I have Relied on Atlus and NIS America for Games not called Call of Duty, Killzone, Etc. and if they leave the market that will leave a very big hole that might likely never be filled.

Thanks,
T

Working Designs may be gone, but the people in charge of it have a new company called Monkeypaw Games. You also forgot to mention Aksys and XSEED.

I like English dubs, but also love Japanese voice acting in my games. If it's subtitled only, it doesn't bother me. If it's English dub only, it doesn't bother me. Dual audio is even better even if there are times when it take over a year for a game to be released into America just to include the Japanese voices. Oh and dubbing in live action movies and tv shows is not the same thing as dubbing in videogames and Anime. Videogames and Anime really don't have a true original language. Even the Japanese voices are considered a dub.

[tarvis]

Originally Posted by MOONPHASE

Oh and dubbing in live action movies and tv shows is not the same thing as dubbing in videogames and Anime. Videogames and Anime really don't have a true original language. Even the Japanese voices are considered a dub.

It is exactly the same. There is still a casting process for roles. Just like when a live action film is dubbed by an actor speaking the same language. As in Krull. Or any number of Italian films. And, just like in live action films, dialogue is changed for animated films to fit the amount of time that the character's mouth is moving.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by tarvis

It is exactly the same. There is still a casting process for roles. Just like when a live action film is dubbed by an actor speaking the same language. As in Krull. Or any number of Italian films. And, just like in live action films, dialogue is changed for animated films to fit the amount of time that the character's mouth is moving.

That's why it's called dubbing. Japanese voice dubs, English voice dubs, they each dub the script to their liking on the mouth movement for the language that's being spoken(unless you have a videogame that uses still portraits like many Visual Novel games).

[tarvis]

Originally Posted by MOONPHASE

That's why it's called dubbing. Japanese voice dubs, English voice dubs, they each dub the script to their liking on the mouth movement for the language that's being spoken(unless you have a videogame that uses still portraits like many Visual Novel games).

No. Dubbing is specifically the act of re-recording dialogue. That is not the same as the broad definition of voice acting. Voice acting is recording the dialogue as written, and intended, by the screenwriter and/or director. Who are generally not involved in dubbing for localization. Where you inevitably end up with a different version of the film due to the changes in dialogue. As is the case with any Disney released Miyazaki film.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by tarvis

No. Dubbing is specifically the act of re-recording dialogue. That is not the same as the broad definition of voice acting. Voice acting is recording the dialogue as written, and intended, by the screenwriter and/or director. Who are generally not involved in dubbing for localization. Where you inevitably end up with a different version of the film due to the changes in dialogue. As is the case with any Disney released Miyazaki film.

In videogames, Anime, cartoons, etc., it's irrelevant since you have people providing the voice acting of something animated. Live action is like when you have a Japanese person for an example speaking in French. Which sounds weird. In animation, it doesn't matter what language they're speaking as long as the voice acting sounds good. Of course you have to dub the script a little bit, but I wouldn't say it's completely different version.

[Trogdor2010]

I like to ask, wouldn't the import process end up costing more than getting a copy locally? I get why games in Japan can be more expensive, but isn't it counter intuitive to charge way more for a game's audience closer to them?

Originally Posted by bobbydrugar

I Think they meant pissing off American Dub Haters by not including the Japanese track on Persona 4 Arena with the American release, not pissing off the Japanese people in Japan. There is a very vocal Anime fandom in the US that gets really pissy when something that was originally in another language gets a DUB for mass appeal because it is sacrilage to DUB something.

Thanks,
T

Neither version of the NA version of Persona 4 (PS2 or Vita) contained a Japanese track. There hasn't really been much backlash from fans, however. The only way to get it this way was to import a version of the game or hack a ROM version of the game that has the Japanese audio and English subs. Actually the inclusion of Japanese dialogue in P4 Arena is kind of odd because of this.

[RaijinUT]

Sad news for RPG fans everywhere. Atlas and NIS are the only thing keeping the import market going here in the States.

.... And let's face the facts, most Western RPGS suck!

Stupid nitch mobile phone gaming market. That things is starting to wreck gaming. More and more companies are throwing a crap load of cash into that in hopes of homerun.