1080p on a 26"?

[simpspin]

I was wondering if anyone has seen, or heard anything about a 1080p. 26" tv coming anytime soon, or would there be not much of a difference between a 720p TV at that size? (I don't have any more room for a larger TV at the moment.)

[theknub]

in this scenario, the best you would see is 1080i would be my assumption. between 1080i and 1080p you would not notice a difference. from my knowledge, you would really only begin to see a difference on a screen of 55" or greater. even then, if the deinterlacing is done corrently, you should not notice a different at all anyway.

[Blackraven]

There is one 1080p set for the American market called the KDL-V32XBR2.

It's from Sony and it's a 1080p set. None yet so far for those below 32 inches.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by simpspin

I was wondering if anyone has seen, or heard anything about a 1080p. 26" tv coming anytime soon, or would there be not much of a difference between a 720p TV at that size? (I don't have any more room for a larger TV at the moment.)

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...2310#post32310

There seems to be a common theme here with you.

They'll probably never bother trying to do 1080p on sets this small.

Do the best that you can for the room of your size, but like I said to you in your other thread: Don't bother buying any of this stuff until you have an HDTV in the first place. It just isn't worth it at all.

[AV_Integrated]

Originally Posted by theknub

in this scenario, the best you would see is 1080i would be my assumption. between 1080i and 1080p you would not notice a difference. from my knowledge, you would really only begin to see a difference on a screen of 55" or greater. even then, if the deinterlacing is done corrently, you should not notice a different at all anyway.

PLEASE STOP SAYING THIS!

Details of image resolution are determined by how far you sit from the screen. At about 1.5x screen WIDTH you can start to see the individual details/pixels of a 1080p display. At about 1.9x screen width then you should go with a 720p display.

At no point is the size alone going to determine whether the specific resolution makes sense.

S&V has a pretty good write up on it here:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hit...esolution.html

[theknub]

AV, i am aware that seating distance makes a difference as well. however, i am simply talking about being able to see a difference between 1080i and 1080p. am i wrong in saying that if viewing at the correct distance, that you will start being able to see a difference on a 55+" screen?

i know many factors go into determining appropriate resolutions for viewing distances. i was simply trying to give a quick answer to a much more complex question.

[simpspin]

First, thanks to the people who answered my original question.

Now that I've looked up the PS3 vs. 720p problem, the next question would be is there any 26" TV's that could display true 1080i from a PS3?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by simpspin

First, thanks to the people who answered my original question.

Now that I've looked up the PS3 vs. 720p problem, the next question would be is there any 26" TV's that could display true 1080i from a PS3?

Nope. At that size and level, you're getting cheap hardware that's going to cut a lot of corners, and frankly, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyways at that size.

EDIT:

Actually there's some exceptions: PC monitors. You could get something like the Dell 2407 or even the new 27 incher they're putting out and be doing real well at that mid 20's size.

You'd need to look for a few things like 1:1 scaling which I believe the Dells have, and be mindful especially of HDCP compliance for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD playback.

Something to think about, anyways.

[BTBuck1]

My buddy has the bravia 1366x768 (last yr model) 40" it looks identical to me as the new 1080p model at the same 5 ft. viewing distance. I feal 1080p is cool and all, but just not that serious til your up into the 55"+ models. I personally wouldn't pay extra for it unless my tv was larger than 50"

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by JTK

Actually there's some exceptions: PC monitors. You could get something like the Dell 2407 or even the new 27 incher they're putting out and be doing real well at that mid 20's size.

You'd need to look for a few things like 1:1 scaling which I believe the Dells have, and be mindful especially of HDCP compliance for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD playback.

Something to think about, anyways.

I think the Samsung 244T ? or something PC/multimedia monitor falls into this category as an alternative to the Dell

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

I think the Samsung 244T ? or something PC/multimedia monitor falls into this category as an alternative to the Dell

Yup.

You have to check the specs, but a quality PC monitor like these is a nice "cheat" if you want a <30 inch monitor with high resolutions and refresh rates.

You want HDCP compliance and 1:1 scaling options for sure.

[HDJK]

My NEC 2690wuxi finally arrived! They set back the release date 3 times... So, I will give it a thourough testing and report back what the 26'' Monitor can do with the signal from my PS3

[Deciazulado]

That monitor should look good. 93% of NTSC colors yum. How much did it cost you?

Is it HDMI or DVI? (You'll need an HDMi to DVI cable if it's the latter) (I read somewhere the monitor was HDCP so it should be good)

Comment about color soon

[HDJK]

Yum indeed

Since I pre-ordered it it cost me 1800 Sfr (approx. 1455 USD). That was the cheapest online price in Switzerland. Now they ask 1988, so I saved roughly 150 USD by being so impatient

It has 2 DVI-D inputs (actually one is DVI-I, which allows analog and digital inputs) and both are HDCP compliant (already got the HDMI to DVI cable). According to a list (I can't find the link anymore) it supports 1:1 Pixelmapping and the NEC homepage states Refreshrates of 31.5Hz - 91.1Hz. So 50Hz for my upscaled PAL DVDs, 60Hz for NTSC DVD and BD and (if the PS3 ever does 24P) 48Hz should all be possible with this.

Unfortunately we had some 'domestic disharmonies' (that kind of thing happens once a month... ) so I couldn't test it yet.
But I will report back as soon as I can take my eyes of it again.

[HDJK]

Look at my post #433

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....post1030692143

Will keep you updated on any news.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by HDJK

Look at my post #433

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....post1030692143

Will keep you updated on any news.

You may have gotten a lemon or defective model of some kind. Can you make an exchange?

The online retailer you referred to there is right about that, although I'd be interested to know why they can't take care of you upfront.

[NARMAK]

1080p is really something that is said to show only visibly on a set of around 50" or more from an average seating distance.

i'm pretty sure 1080p on a 26" wouldn't really look as overwhelming as it would on something like a 1080p set of 50" or more. If you look at computers resoltuions for a second, you will notice that the higher th resolution gets, the more the screen doesn't look that viewable.

1080p is a huge resolution and to be quite frank, i think TV manufacturers know that 1080p on a 26" would look dismal, 720p is more like what you would want on a 26"

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by HDJK

1 - The fan is really loud and high pitched! We have some 30inch NEC LCDs at work and they are barely audible. It is impossible to watch a movie without closed headphones at high spl levels. Working in front of it isn't a joy either. Is this a problem with the first batch? Did I just receive a DUD?

It has a fan? I've heard complaints about other brands LCDs power supplies buzzing. Maybe that's what youre hearing? (maybe that's grounds for replacement.)

Originally Posted by HDJK

2 - When watching DVD I like them with 1:1 pixel mapping (1920x1080). When not using full screen (which works alright) I get GRAY bars at the top and bottom! Add to that the black bars of the movie and you get a visual sandwich that's not very tasty...
Also one of the two modes (ASP should remove the black bars of the movie by zooming in without changing OAR) and 1:1 (OFF which should leave everything untouched) doesn't work properly. Because when I switch between the 2 the black bars of the movie disappear by stretching the video vertically. The actual width stays the same. So, either the zoom ASP doesn't work right by stretching instead of zooming or the OFF has an overscan and actually squeezes the video. My guess is the first but I haven't confirmed with test patterns yet.

I'm a little confused by your terms.

You have a 25.5" diagonal 1200 x 1920 panel (1.60 wide)

1:1 refers to 1:1 pixel mapping, so if you were watching DVDs in 1:1 you'd get a small 5.4" x 8.1" NTSC 480 x 720 pixel image in the center of your screen (or a 6.5" x 8.1" PAL 576 x 720 pixels one), not one filling up most of the screen

(Maybe the display or you refers to 1:1 as a 1:1 no-distortion shape relationship?)

Or you meant Blu-rays instead of DVDs? Then 1:1 would show the Blu-ray frame on the screen as 1080 x 1920 (1.78 wide. Correct) inside the 1200 x 1600 (1.60 shape) panel with 60 pixel tall bars above and below (2 x 60 = 120) to fill the remaining empty space of the 1200 pixel height (1080 + 120 = 1200)

You have to check your input/output settings (on both panel and PS3) to see what resolutions are really being sent/accepted/displayed. Maybe because of the settings, 480 DVDs are being scaled or zoomed into 1080 x 1920 automatically instead of being shown 480 x 720 1:1 (check HDMI settings, like having 1080i, instead of being in 480p/1080p by force) on what you say is the 1:1 setting. I seen some other similar (1200 x 1920) displays having up to three "Zoom" settings:

A- 1:1 pixels
B- Zoom till either height or width of the image (if its not exactly 1.60 wide) touches one of the edges (For example 1.78 wide images would be zoomed till the side edges touch the edges of the screen having the 1.78 inside 1.60 letterboxed, while having a 1.50 wide image zoomed till the vertical edges touch the verical edges of the screen having the 1.50 inside the 1.60 pillarboxed at the sides)
C- Fill screen zoom: any shape is reshaped into 1.60 and made to fill the whole 1.60 screen. With 1.78 images the distortion is small and for example if you're watching animation you might not see it at first, and after a while of watching like that, you might not even notice it when watching live action. (People look like they lost 10 pounds overnight)

You say the extra letterbox bars to fill the 1.78 inside the 1.60 when in 1:1 shaping are grey. Maybe it is because this is a monitor intended for graphic design and the background fill is set to neutral grey for things like Photoshop work by default? Maybe there's a setting for the background color somewhere? or a way to change it by software?

For movie viewing of Scope films having 60 grey/140 black/800 image/140 black/60 grey to fill 1200 lines does indeed make for a very busy display



What happens when you select ASP(?) seems to be your 16:9 shaped (1.78 wide) DVDs (or Blu rays) are being strectched vertically into a 1.60 shape to fill your 1.60 shaped 1200 pixel tall screen.

Hope this helps. A little.




On another topic, sitting about arms length or a little closer from the 26" monitor lets you see the full 1080p quality

I'm still waiting a report on the color

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

It has a fan? I've heard complaints about other brands LCDs power supplies buzzing. Maybe that's what youre hearing? (maybe that's grounds for replacement.)

That could be the problem, since I just noticed that the noise changes when I change the brightness setting. The NEC rep on hardforum.com just confirmed that the 2690 doesn't have a fan!

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

On another topic, sitting about arms length or a little closer from the 26" monitor lets you see the full 1080p quality

I'm still waiting a report on the color

Exactly

And I was referring to upscaled DVDs from the Denon (full 1080P output over HDMI) and BDs from the PS3. Thanks for all the tips. But I had all the HDMI settings correct. The display even flashes a little sign with the settings when syncing (1920x1080 @50Hz for PAL, 1920x1080 @59,xx for BDs and NTSC DVDs), really cool.

NEC finally replied: the sent a template email asking for all kind of infos I already provided But it looks like they will replace it. Another user says he doesn't even know his monitor is on by ear only, so mine must a DOA. I will coment on the color when everything is worked out.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by HDJK

That could be the problem, since I just noticed that the noise changes when I change the brightness setting. The NEC rep on hardforum.com just confirmed that the 2690 doesn't have a fan!

Yep, that's the power supply (of the fluorescent)

Originally Posted by HDJK

And I was referring to upscaled DVDs from the Denon (full 1080P output over HDMI) and BDs from the PS3. Thanks for all the tips. But I had all the HDMI settings correct.

oh ok. That explains why you were getting the screen filled at 1:1 with DVDs

mm maybe you should play with the PS3 and set it to 480p only, for a moment so you saw the small (but sharp!) 480 x 720 window on it

And check if you have the 3 "zoom settings" I mentioned (as 1080 x 1920 images look the same size when switching between the 1:1 setting and the "fill one edge" zoom setting, you might have the 3 settings and not seen them it? (btw the "zoom to edge" setting might not give you true 1:1 pixel mapping wth the 1080 x 1920, but be instead a little smidge overscanned, and therefore, lose a little sharpness) (You can check this wth the Sony BD resolution pattern) (So use 1:1 :P)

Originally Posted by HDJK

The display even flashes a little sign with the settings when syncing (1920x1080 @50Hz for PAL, 1920x1080 @59,xx for BDs and NTSC DVDs), really cool.

cool, it does 50 Hz wonder if it could do 1080p24 at 48 Hz

If you watch 1080i programing (like the concert BDs (and 1080i is selected on the PS3 settings) the PS3 sends it as 1080i. Does the NEC then flash 1080i when synching?

Originally Posted by HDJK

NEC finally replied: the sent a template email asking for all kind of infos I already provided But it looks like they will replace it. Another user says he doesn't even know his monitor is on by ear only, so mine must a DOA. I will coment on the color when everything is worked out.

So what about the grey bars? are they switchable? a defect? a bug? a feature? (if they were continually switchable from 0 to 255 RGB, they'd be the coolest)