Face/Off: What could have been...

[davcole]

Watched it the other day and thought as great as the picture and the audio is, imagine what it could have been without the DNR and the lossy audio.

Seriously, video-wise the blacks are solid, the colors are solid and the picture pretty much free of compression artifacts. The only thing that degrades the picture is the excessive DNR. If the characters faces and backgrounds didn't look so waxy, you would have a Top Tier transfer.

As for the audio, the DTS-ES really kicks a**. Seriously one of the best legacy soundtracks i've heard! Now imagine if they had released it in PCM or a lossless soundtrack. It would have been a revelation.

I do hope that one day, Paramount will do this title justice.

Thoughts?

[TheForce8686]

I didnt notice those things. I thought it looked really good. Much, much better then my old dvd.

[DetroitSportsFan]

The UK version has better picture quality as well as lossless audio, and is compatible in Region A players.

Review:
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/869/faceoff_uk.html

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Face-Off-Blu...9850165&sr=1-2

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Review:
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/869/faceoff_uk.html

I wonder if we can get a review from a "respected" authority. That "reviewer" gave a 5-star rating to the lossy audio on the HD-DVD.

[davcole]

Thanks for the link to the review, however it states that there is also DNR on that release. I'm posing what it could have been without any DNR'.

That audio review is interesting, seemed to prefer the DTS. I'd be curious to hear a true 6.1 lossless track.

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

I wonder if we can get a review from a "respected" authority. That "reviewer" gave a 5-star rating to the lossy audio on the HD-DVD.

I agree, HDD's reviews are sometimes suspect.

[Lucy Diamond]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

I wonder if we can get a review from a "respected" authority. That "reviewer" gave a 5-star rating to the lossy audio on the HD-DVD.

Dude, that is so weird...I quoted a review from another site yesterday and they deleted my post!?!?!

I feel so dirty.

It was in a Heroes thread. They trashed the AQ and PQ here and it got a stellar review elsewhere so I threw in the link.

They deleted it!!?!?

Odd.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Lucy Diamond

Dude, that is so weird...I quoted a review from another site yesterday and they deleted my post!?!?!

I feel so dirty.

It was in a Heroes thread. They trashed the AQ and PQ here and it got a stellar review elsewhere so I threw in the link.

They deleted it!!?!?

Odd.

Are you talking about this post?
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=85

Took me 2 seconds to find it using the search function. None of your posts have been deleted, at least not within the last two weeks of your posting history that I just looked through.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by davcole

Thanks for the link to the review, however it states that there is also DNR on that release. I'm posing what it could have been without any DNR'.

It might have been an absolute mess. DNR does not equal bad picture, excessive use does.

The British import has incredible picture quality and the PCM track is excellent.

[ClaytonMG]

The import is also DNR'd, with only a slight improvement over Paramount's release. But Paramount actually changed the opening titles for some reason which I don't think many people picked up on. But then also, the import version cut out a few shots which isn't that noticable, but if you've seen the movie you'll go "what?"

And I actually prefer, and this is the only time I'll be saying this, the DTS track to the PCM. The PCM sounded extremely in your face and not in a good way. The DTS track actually seemed pretty well mixed (probably because it was remastered). In the opening when Castor Troy is getting out of his car and his theme is playing, in the front right channel, the PCM track distorts ever so slightly. On the DTS track, it sounds fine.

[davcole]

Sounds like different audio masters for the Domestic and Foreign release.

Like I mentioned before, the DTS-ES is very sweet!! I'd say it's the best lossy track i've heard. I just salivate would a true 6.1 DTS-MA track would sound like!

I don't always believe DNR equals a mess, but as ClaytonMG mentioned "excessive" use is a bad thing! Sounds like both releases had excessive DNR.

Honestly when you look at the domestic release, I don't see how anyone can miss the excessive DNR on the release.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by davcole

Sounds like different audio masters for the Domestic and Foreign release.

Like I mentioned before, the DTS-ES is very sweet!! I'd say it's the best lossy track i've heard. I just salivate would a true 6.1 DTS-MA track would sound like!

I don't always believe DNR equals a mess, but as ClaytonMG mentioned "excessive" use is a bad thing! Sounds like both releases had excessive DNR.

Honestly when you look at the domestic release, I don't see how anyone can miss the excessive DNR on the release.

It's actually so excessive, that it doesn't look like film. Which I think is why they changed the opening credits. I almost prefer the look of the original DVD (grainy, dirty print) to the fakey waxy looking version that got released in HD.

[dobyblue]

I find the PCM mix to be very powerful, but never harsh.
With the dts mix when it's loud and level-matched, it's harsh, which has sometimes been a signature of core dts in my experience and not something I've noticed with dts-ma.

[jw]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I find the PCM mix to be very powerful, but never harsh.
With the dts mix when it's loud and level-matched, it's harsh, which has sometimes been a signature of core dts in my experience and not something I've noticed with dts-ma.

i have both versions, I perfer the UK version over the Paramount release. Sounds and looks better

[Dynamo of Eternia]

I have the US Blu-Ray of this, and it was the first time that I bought the movie since VHS, so I hadn't seen it in years up until buying and watching the Blu-Ray.

I guess I didn't pick up on the opening credits being different since it had been so long. Does anyone have images of the original/import version of the credits compared to the US Blu-Ray? Are they in a totally different font or something?

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I find the PCM mix to be very powerful, but never harsh.
With the dts mix when it's loud and level-matched, it's harsh, which has sometimes been a signature of core dts in my experience and not something I've noticed with dts-ma.

If the core is harsh, shouldn't the actual Master Audio track be harsh as well? From the way I understand it, the lossless track is the same as the core but it fills in the missing bits.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

If the core is harsh, shouldn't the actual Master Audio track be harsh as well? From the way I understand it, the lossless track is the same as the core but it fills in the missing bits.

Not at all - in the same way that an .mp3 can be harsh whereas a .wav file may not.

I don't listen to .mp3's outside of my crappy desktop speakers because it sounds harsh on my Paradigm system.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by jwbbud

i have both versions, I perfer the UK version over the Paramount release. Sounds and looks better

I have both versions too, and like I said, they both have pro's and cons. The UK version didn't change the opening credits, which is the world's smallest thing and if you don't know what they originally looked like you can't tell the difference, but it is a plus.

Music reproduction is more where I noticed somewhat of an improvement on the U.S. release over the UK PCM track. Unfortunately, the sound design on the film itself isn't very good. Sound effects are purposely distorted, they don't use realistic gun shots or anything. The whole soundtrack is simply overblown. Which is on purpose.

The changes in audio are small though, the changes in PQ are equally small. Both have pro's and con's. My preference is the U.S. release since they both look less than stellar (very colorful though compared to the DVD, holy crap are they colorful...). And audio seems to be more of a personal preference thing on this title. Like I said, this is the only track where I'd select a compressed track over an uncompressed/lossless track.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Not at all - in the same way that an .mp3 can be harsh whereas a .wav file may not.

I don't listen to .mp3's outside of my crappy desktop speakers because it sounds harsh on my Paradigm system.

How dare you mention Mp3's sir!!! I listen to film scores and Mp3's are the enemy...

But a Wav file and an Mp3 file are 2 different things (obviously). For DTS, it's actually taking the same core and incorporating it into the final lossless track. So basically, it'd be the samething as taking an mp3 file and puting it in a wav file and the wav filling in the extra bits, but the characteristics of the mp3 file would still be there... Actually now that I am saying this, I think you're right. The effects of the core track would be changed.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

How dare you mention Mp3's sir!!! I listen to film scores and Mp3's are the enemy...

I agree, which is why I thought it odd that the upcoming Blu-ray from Anchor Bay of "Dead Space" featuring an isolated downloadable film score, in .mp3, was highly incongrous. I mean, you can get the LOTR score on DVD-Audio, yet Anchor Bay are bringing you an .mp3 file of the score....on a Blu-ray release featuring TrueHD? It doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Actually now that I am saying this, I think you're right. The effects of the core track would be changed.

Simply because one is lossy and one is lossless. In both cases you're starting with the lossless master first.



The difference is not as noticeable between the two on a 6.1 system. On 5.1 I prefer the PCM track, but it's perhaps more placebo than anything else. I don't listen to one and think "oh wow this is so much better" like I do switching between The Stranger CD and The Stranger SACD for example.