For those of you who are considering using a 7.1 analog

[JimShaw]

This is a follow-up regarding my using 7.1 analog.

My TV doesn't have an HDMI but I wanted to start using Blu-ray because SOUND not video is my button.

I wanted to get a Blu-ray with a 7.1 analog and connect it to my Denon 3805 (also without HDMI). I was told this would be my best hook-up until I purchased a TV with HDMI.

Because of all the info. I received from this forum, I ordered the Marantz BD8002. Because I found a Marantz receiver, SR70002, at such a great price, I decided to order it also. Damn it was all expensive. For a few weeks, I considered re-selling them to get my money back but I install them yesterday. Plugged in the 7.1 analog along with component for video.

This new system did sound better than my old DVD player and Denon 3805. But maybe not worth all the money now sitting on my credit card.

Today I called Marantz and asked them if it was possible to hook up the HDMI cable from the player to the receiver along with component cables for video and then component to the TV.

They said they weren't sure but they would do a test using their equipment and see if it could be done--"They would call me back". Yea, sure they will, I told myself.

About two hours later, they called. I was surprised. They said yes, they got it to work and told me how to setup the receiver and DVD player. I hooked everything up and put a CD into the player.

Out came the most beautiful sound I have heard. The music separation between all the speakers was amazing. I don't ever recall hearing a better sounding system.

Bottom line is the sound coming out of my ceiling is well worth the bucks spent. There IS a big difference between using the 7.1 analog and the HDMI cables for sound.

Another bottom line is I am extremly satisfied.

[SkillzthatKillz]

that's strange, then why is pioneer suggesting that everyone use the 7.1 outs for audio on that new $2200 ultra blu-ray player of theirs? oh btw im glad your setup is sounding so purdy

[allstar780]

probably because for that price it's doing a hell of a job... and anyone with a player like that likely has an entirely analog amping system.

[SkillzthatKillz]

i just always thought that HDMI was supposed to be the best way to connect anything, audio or video...am i wrong?

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by SkillzthatKillz

i just always thought that HDMI was supposed to be the best way to connect anything, audio or video...am i wrong?

That is what I heard. But I was also told because my TV does not have HDMI the best hook-up that I could do to connect a Blu-ray to a receiver was 7.1 if the receiver also had a 7.1 connection which my Denon 3805 did.

All I can tell you the difference between the 7.1 analog and using the HDMI for sound for me was astounding. It was day and night, the difference between regretting spending the money vs. now glad I did.

[Johk]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

That is what I heard. But I was also told because my TV does not have HDMI the best hook-up that I could do to connect a Blu-ray to a receiver was 7.1 if the receiver also had a 7.1 connection which mine Denon 3805 did.

All I can tell you the difference between the 7.1 analog and using the HDMI for sound for me was astounding. It was day and night, the difference between regretting spending the money vs. now glad I did.

It all comes down to which component as the best D/A converter and how the receiver handles the signal...

[RUR]

Jim, I'm short on caffeine and trying to figure out why you believe that the receiver connection to the TV has anything to do with audio quality. Can you please describe your setup, including speakers?

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by RUR

Jim, I'm short on caffeine and trying to figure out why you believe that the receiver connection to the TV has anything to do with audio quality. Can you please describe your setup, including speakers?

PUR

How are you?

I am not an expert or even close to a novice in this area of audio, wiring, connections, video, etc. All I know is what I read or have been told and that was I could not use a HDMI cable from the player to the receiver if I could not hook up the TV also using the HDMI cable.

Infact, that information seemed correct when I called Marantz and they did not know and Martantz had to test it out with their equipment to see if they could make it work.

Today, I will try to re-wire the STB using an HDMI cable to the receiver to see if that will also work, eliminating the cable and optical now used.

Anyway, I am extremely happy with the results.

My system includes:

6 Speakercraft Aim8s
2 Speakercraft 8.2 BAS passive subs
1 SVS PB 13-Ultra sub
and my TV is a Toshiba (non HDMI) projecter
Marantz SR7002 receiver
Marantz BDD8002 Blu-ray
and now purchasing Blu-ray DVDs

Reading this forum has gotten to be expensive.

[RUR]

Hi, Jim! How the video is connected from player to AVR to TV should not dictate how the audio is connected from player to AVR.

Since the DAC's and analogue out section of the Marantz player are almost certainly of better quality than the same in the AVR, audio quality will be better when using analogue outs, for audio, to the AVR. HDMI for video is preferred and you should use HDMI between player and AVR and between AVR and TV. Both your player and your AVR setup should have settings to permit this i.e. analogue for audio and HDMI for video.

Having said this, in order to get the best AQ, your AVR should be set to "direct" or whatever nomenclature is used to prevent the AVR from re-processing the analogue signals received from the player. If this isn't done, your system will convert D/A in the player, then A/D and again D/A in the AVR - the signal will be processed three times and the benefit of those lovely DAC's in the Marantz player will be lost.

Ken

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by RUR

Hi, Jim! How the video is connected from player to AVR to TV should not dictate how the audio is connected from player to AVR.

Since the DAC's and analogue out section of the Marantz player are almost certainly of better quality than the same in the AVR, audio quality will be better when using analogue outs, for audio, to the AVR. HDMI for video is preferred and you should use HDMI between player and AVR and between AVR and TV. Both your player and your AVR setup should have settings to permit this i.e. analogue for audio and HDMI for video.

Having said this, in order to get the best AQ, your AVR should be set to "direct" or whatever nomenclature is used to prevent the AVR from re-processing the analogue signals received from the player. If this isn't done, your system will convert D/A in the player, then A/D and again D/A in the AVR - the signal will be processed three times and the benefit of those lovely DAC's in the Marantz player will be lost.

Ken

Ken

Thanks, I will go in and try the change to Direct.

Also, because I am getting old, I forgot to put in one important info. and that was when I changed to the HDMI cable I was able to change the Multi Audio in the player to HD Audio which made all the difference. Until then I wasn't able to make that change. Marantz told me it took the HDMI cable to make it work.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

Ken

Thanks, I will go in and try the change to Direct.

Also, because I am getting old, I forgot to put in one important info. and that was when I changed to the HDMI cable I was able to change the Multi Audio in the player to HD Audio which made all the difference. Until then I wasn't able to make that change. Marantz told me it took the HDMI cable to make it work.

Ok, I'm out of my league but I appreciate the thread (great reply RUR!) and am trying to get my head around it. Is it possible that the Marantz BDD8002 Blu-ray player can't do HD-audio via the analog out? Maybe the OP was getting the core lossy tracks instead of the lossless codecs?

Does that even make sense?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by SkillzthatKillz

that's strange, then why is pioneer suggesting that everyone use the 7.1 outs for audio on that new $2200 ultra blu-ray player of theirs? oh btw im glad your setup is sounding so purdy

I have no idea - the DAC's in the player will be the same as the SC-09.

I'd rather use HDMI.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Ok, I'm out of my league but I appreciate the thread (great reply RUR!) and am trying to get my head around it. Is it possible that the Marantz BDD8002 Blu-ray player can't do HD-audio via the analog out? Maybe the OP was getting the core lossy tracks instead of the lossless codecs?

Does that even make sense?

It's possible he was getting the lossy tracks, but that would be a player setup/selection issue. The BD8002 is the Marantz equivalent to my Denon DVD3800BDCI and both will handle lossless audio codecs via analogue out.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Ok, I'm out of my league but I appreciate the thread (great reply RUR!) and am trying to get my head around it. Is it possible that the Marantz BDD8002 Blu-ray player can't do HD-audio via the analog out? Maybe the OP was getting the core lossy tracks instead of the lossless codecs?

Does that even make sense?

I am getting ready to test all this. I will go back and set everything back to 7.1, see if the HD Audio still works and change the AVR to Direct to see if the sound gets better than it was using HDMI. I don't see how it can but if it does, EVEN BETTER

[prerich]

Originally Posted by RUR

Hi, Jim! How the video is connected from player to AVR to TV should not dictate how the audio is connected from player to AVR.

Since the DAC's and analogue out section of the Marantz player are almost certainly of better quality than the same in the AVR, audio quality will be better when using analogue outs, for audio, to the AVR. HDMI for video is preferred and you should use HDMI between player and AVR and between AVR and TV. Both your player and your AVR setup should have settings to permit this i.e. analogue for audio and HDMI for video.

Having said this, in order to get the best AQ, your AVR should be set to "direct" or whatever nomenclature is used to prevent the AVR from re-processing the analogue signals received from the player. If this isn't done, your system will convert D/A in the player, then A/D and again D/A in the AVR - the signal will be processed three times and the benefit of those lovely DAC's in the Marantz player will be lost.

Ken

Did some backround info RUR - the Marantz BD player has AD Sharc dac's the Marantz 7002 receiver uses the Texas Instrument 32 bit Floating DAC - basiclly what he has proven is that the DAC's in the receiver are better than the ones in the BD player. Which add's up because the TI Dac's cost more than the Analog Devices Dac's.

P.S. Yes the Marantz BD player can decode HD audio itself. Now my question to the OP, did you bitstream (more than likely you did) to the 7002? Do what RUR said ealier and put your Marantz receiver on direct or whatever the proper mode is and then listen again. If you can tell a great difference - its because of the DAC's - not HDMI.

[prerich]

OP, You need to have your receiver surround setting on Source Direct or Pure Direct (not Auto) according to page 60 of the 7002 manual.

Here are some other instructions for setting up 7.1

1. Select a desired Video source to decide the
routed video signal to the Monitor Outputs.
2. Press the 7.1 CH INPUT button on the front
panel or press 7.1 CH on the remote controller
to switch the 7.1 channel input.
3. If it is necessary to adjust the output level of
each channel, press the CH.SEL button on the
remote controller.
Adjust the speaker output levels so that you can
hear the same sound level from each speaker
at the listening position. For the front left, front
right, center, surround left, surround right and
surround back speakers, the output levels can
be adjusted between –12 to +12 dB.
The subwoofer can be adjusted between –18
and +12 dB.
These adjustments result will be stored to 7.1
CH. INPUT memory.
4. Adjust the main volume with the MAIN
VOLUME knob or the VOL buttons on the
remote controller.
To cancel the 7.1 CH. INPUT setting, press the 7.1
CH INPUT button on the front panel or press 7.1 CH
on the remote controller.
Notes:
• When the 7.1 CH. Input is in use, you may not select
a surround mode, as the external decoder determines
processing.
• In addition, there is no signal at the record outputs
when the 7.1 CH. Input is in use.
• Furthermore, the following functions are not
available during 7.1 CH Input use.
Test Tone, NIGHT MODE, Source Direct, Pure
Direct, RE-EQ, Tone Control, Multi EQ

[RUR]

Originally Posted by prerich

...the Marantz BD player has AD Sharc dac's the Marantz 7002 receiver uses the Texas Instrument 32 bit Floating DAC - basiclly what he has proven is that the DAC's in the receiver are better than the ones in the BD player. Which add's up because the TI Dac's cost more than the Analog Devices Dac's.

I'm no expert on this stuff, but AD's SHARC is the DSP, no? I believe the Denon 3800 uses "dual 32-bit (SHARC) floating point DSP, (and) Burr Brown (TI) PCM-1796 audio decoders (DAC's) for all channels", the same setup as used in the $5K 5308 and the $7K AVP-1. Because the Denon and Marantz are kissin' cousins, they should be using the same setup, though Marantz quietly claimed to do some additional magic in the analogue section. There's a lot more to AQ than the DAC's, though. Let's see how the experiment plays out.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by RUR

I'm no expert on this stuff, but AD's SHARC is the DSP, no? I believe the Denon 3800 uses "dual 32-bit (SHARC) floating point DSP, (and) Burr Brown (TI) PCM-1796 audio decoders (DAC's) for all channels", the same setup as used in the $5K 5308 and the $7K AVP-1. Because the Denon and Marantz are kissin' cousins, they should be using the same setup, though Marantz quietly claimed to do some additional magic in the analogue section. There's a lot more to AQ than the DAC's, though. Let's see how the experiment plays out.

OOPPS!!!!! OHHH MY BAD!!!!! BRAIN FLATULATION!!!!!! You are correct - I'm talking about the different dsp engines not the DAC's my bad!!!!!

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by RUR

Hi, Jim! How the video is connected from player to AVR to TV should not dictate how the audio is connected from player to AVR.

Since the DAC's and analogue out section of the Marantz player are almost certainly of better quality than the same in the AVR, audio quality will be better when using analogue outs, for audio, to the AVR. HDMI for video is preferred and you should use HDMI between player and AVR and between AVR and TV. Both your player and your AVR setup should have settings to permit this i.e. analogue for audio and HDMI for video.

Having said this, in order to get the best AQ, your AVR should be set to "direct" or whatever nomenclature is used to prevent the AVR from re-processing the analogue signals received from the player. If this isn't done, your system will convert D/A in the player, then A/D and again D/A in the AVR - the signal will be processed three times and the benefit of those lovely DAC's in the Marantz player will be lost.

Ken

Ken

I went back and reset the Marantz player using 7.1 analog, made sure the player was set to HDAudio and the Maranatz receiver set to Direct. To do Direct all I had to do was push the 7.1 button on the receiver. Because the receiver was now set to Direct, I did a speaker set up through the player using a sound meter. When all was done, put in a Blu-ray and started.

FANTASTIC. You are correct. Using 7.1 analog is great. This is where I will leave it.

Once again, thanks

[RUR]

Way cool! You're most welcome.