New Blu-ray Features Mandated In All Players After Oct 31 2007

[HDTV1080P]

The Blue-ray Association has mandated that all BLU-RAY players manufactured after October 31 must be able to play back picture in picture video that is driven by BD java interactive. After October 31 all BLU-RAY players are mandated to have a minimum of 256MB of memory storage to power the picture and picture feature. The Internet connection feature well remain optional, but players that contain a Internet connection after October 31 are required to be manufactured with 1GB of memory to hold downloaded web content.

Quote
“Many players on shelves now can handle BD Java, but to varying degrees. Few Blu-ray players include picture-in-picture capability, for instance, not even the PlayStation 3.
Sony’s current and summer 2007 stand-alone models and available Pioneer and Philips units are among those lacking the picture-in-picture feature.”
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6427147.html?nid=2705

[Banjo]

Even though the PS3 may not be able to do this at the moment, but I imagine it's doable with a firmware update.

Anybody think the PS3 owners will get lucky?

[Gremal]

Interesting. Could be useful, depending on the direction of future advances. For now, I don't miss it.

[Guinness7]

I expect the PS3 to have the HP to support PiP, but I cannot confirm it at this moment. This would mean customers will able to update their devices and add this function, plus others...

From the insiders thread this is what paidgeek had to say about this which i hope is right, but like he said he does not know for sure.

[Amon37]

The PS3 has the Memory requirements and HDD to accomadate downloading content from the web and PiP. I don't see why the PS3 couldn't be enabled to do it.

[Damon Payne]

I would certainly hope the PS3 can do it with a firmware upgrade. I don't know much about video processing but paralell data stream operations are the type of thing the PS3 is good at.

[ProvenFlipper]

It looks like my wishes are fnally coming true. I want to get a fully featured BD player for christmas and it looks like that may happen. what does suck however, is that we might be waiting until that time to see the warner titles that we all have been waiting for.

[HDTV1080P]

What this October 31 mandate means is many new models of BLU-RAY players should be appearing on the market in November since all models that do not have the mandated memory storage requirement for Picture and Picture will be discontinued. This mandate most likely only effects BLU-RAY players and appears to not apply to computer BLU-RAY drives and videogame systems like the Sony Playstation 3.
Even if computer drives and videogame systems were included in the mandate the PS3 has 256 MB of RAM that could be used for PIP video. Also 1 GB of virtual memory can be used in the hard drive of the PS3 to hold web content. So the PS3 in theory meets the mandate requirements even though the mandate may not apply to videogame systems. Hopefully when movies with PIP video shows up Sony will have a firmware update available to allow this on the PS3. The current PS3 firmware does not support PIP and there is always the very rare possibility that the PS3 will not every have the full BD Java capabilities like PIP. Will just have to wait and see.

[WriteSimply]

If I read this correct, October is the final month for first gen BD players to be sold. Who'd want a BD player that's of partial spec?

This statement means several things.

1) BD-J, PiP and BD-Live are close to completion and being tested now.
2) Once that wraps up, CEs will start designing new BD players that meet the minimum spec.
3) While BD-Live players are being made, studios will start encoding BD discs with PiP, BD-Live and advance BD-J features and testing them on reference design BD players as well as non-BD-Live players currently in the market.

Basically we could see BD-J/PiP titles from as early as July. New players will come shortly, followed by a PS3 firmware upgrade; I doubt Sony would want the PS3 to undercut their new standalones. By October, it'll be in full swing.

Best part of the article:

“I just finished graphics with my first BD Java title,” said DVD producer Van Ling, who declined to name the release. “What I’m finding is that there is a lot of optimism that it will work, but it’s not a certainty. We are now out of the realm of normal video format stuff, and we’re into computer programming.”

Ling worries about ongoing differences among Blu-ray players, because it’s likely some manufacturers will adhere to minimum standards and others will go above and beyond for competitive reasons.

“The whole problem comes in when some manufacturers toe the minimum line and some others might make twice the minimum [functionality] on players,” said Ling. “In my view, I shouldn’t have to know what every single player can do. Rather than downgrade my creative vision for the lowest common denominator player, I want to create something [that fully realizes Blu-ray abilities].”

fuad

[cdblu]

so warner will not be be the first studio to release a title with pip? theyre the ones making a big fuss about it.

[blublublu]

It's suprising that Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, and the rest of them would have released players that would not be future proofed/upgradeable to support these requirements.

Pricing a player at >$1200 and being obsolete in a year?

This is certainly one area that's an embarassment for Blu Ray, if it turns out all those players and the PS3 cannot support the new requirements.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by blublublu

It's suprising that Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, and the rest of them would have released players that would not be future proofed/upgradeable to support these requirements.

Pricing a player at >$1200 and being obsolete in a year?

This is certainly one area that's an embarassment for Blu Ray, if it turns out all those players and the PS3 cannot support the new requirements.

When first generation DVD players started coming out in 1997 it was missing features, over the years they added features like support for DTS surround sound on second generation players, then progressive scan came out, then DVI and HDMI outputs, etc. All formats improve over time.
I think the other factor is the BLU-RAY camp decided to release BLU-RAY players at least a year early so that the HD-DVD camp would only have around a 3 month head start in the format war, instead of giving the HD-DVD format a 1 year and 3 month head start. Of course from product launch every HD-DVD player has picture and picture feature. The BLU-RAY camp decided to launch players over a year early with out the picture and picture feature.
** For me the picture and picture feature is a minor feature. Some people will wait until November to purchase the new model BLU-RAY players while others really won’t care about the feature. ** I am still considering purchasing a few BLU-RAY players for other rooms in the house even if they will not do PIP.

[bruce]

Guess that means certain Warner titles out on HD DVD will not be coming out on BR anytime soon, that's bad because the Harry Potter series and 300 ( and others) are going to have this pic in pic option.

I also don't care about pic in pic, I have HD DVD ( along with BR) and never ever have watched any pic in pic stuff, for example,I have Batman Begins ( great disc by the way), have watched it a few times, never with pic in pic.

[blublublu]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

When first generation DVD players started coming out in 1997 it was missing features, over the years they added features like support for DTS surround sound on second generation players, then progressive scan came out, then DVI and HDMI outputs, etc. All formats improve over time.

True, but I doubt there were cases where the spec's for DVDs changed such that older players could not play newly released DVDs.

Assuming everything they do with BD-J is still backwards compatible and the "old" players can still play the new discs that's ok. If not, that's a nightmare.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by blublublu

True, but I doubt there were cases where the spec's for DVDs changed such that older players could not play newly released DVDs.

Back before RSDL (Reverse Spin, Dual Layer) DVDs came out, most of the DVDs are single-layer and those that are dual-layer (and not dual-side, singler-layer or the FLIPPER). When RSDL discs came out, there were lots of uncertainties if the players could play them. It turns out some players played it well (Sony DVSPS7000) but others played with a longer pause or none at all. HOWEVER, note that RSDL was in the DVD spec. So even though it was in the spec, issues were still there.

Assuming everything they do with BD-J is still backwards compatible and the "old" players can still play the new discs that's ok. If not, that's a nightmare.

The BD-J discs should play the movie okay. It's the extras and most likely PiP feature that will be affected. PiP requires TWO video decoders.


fuad

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by blublublu

It's suprising that Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, and the rest of them would have released players that would not be future proofed/upgradeable to support these requirements.

We knew all along that this was the case. At least I knew. It was certainly no secret.

It kinda depends on whether you think these features are important and what time frame you want a player in and how much that is worth to you...

[Per]

I think it would be cool if they defined a mandatory level of 3D
graphics support for a future version of BD-J, basically turning
every future Blu-ray player into a gaming console. The hardware for
this will be dirt cheap in 2008, an example being the TI Omap series
of multi-media processors.

Do you think this could happen?