High-def battle of words - Blu-ray Forum

HDTV1080P · 03-30-2007, 11:37 PM

Another interesting article

High-def battle of words

http://www.videobusiness.com/article....html?nid=2705

nhaase · 03-31-2007, 12:42 AM

I had read recently, I think it was the Financial Times story (not sure), that BD had sold 700k while HD-DVD had sold 310k.

Note: It wasn't the Fin. Times, but if anyone remembers, please point me that way.

The same Home Media Retailing story confirms that over 1 million Blu-ray Discs have now sold to consumers (700,000 this year in 2007), with about 900,000 HD-DVDs sold (310,000 in 2007). You can read more at Video Business as well.
--That's from TheDigitalBits.com on March 27th, so somebody is spinning the numbers. Judging from the article that started this thread, I am tempted to say that one is wrong, since digbits.com gives a source.

Solar Driftwood · 03-31-2007, 07:36 AM

An interesting article. I wonder if HD-DVD's healthy disc sales are partly to do with their lack of region coding? I've certainly picked up more HD-DVD discs from the US than I have Blu-ray (where only certain discs are all-region).

And of course, Sony's claim that there are more BD players in homes due to sales of PlayStation3 units, is a bit weak as only a proportion of those who buy a games player will use it for movie playback.

(I should point out that I'm strictly format-neutral, by the way, and these comments are simply observations of someone who supports both formats.)

WriteSimply · 03-31-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar Driftwood

And of course, Sony's claim that there are more BD players in homes due to sales of PlayStation3 units, is a bit weak as only a proportion of those who buy a games player will use it for movie playback.

Your reasoning is weak.

The PS3, while not a standalone player, IS a fully fledged BD player. There are more than a few millions of them in consumer hands right now.

Whether the consumer choose to use its BD playback functionality is out of SCE's hands. However the functionality will ALWAYS be there should the consumer choose to use it. There is no module or add-on to hook-up and certainly it does not require additional firmware updates.

The attach rate for BD movies per PS3 owners is a little low but as the numbers for total BD unit sales for 2006-2007 thus far has shown, as well as the numbers of Casino Royale sold in the US, the PS3 owners are the ones that are causing the unit sales to increase.

fuad

onanie · 03-31-2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar Driftwood

And of course, Sony's claim that there are more BD players in homes due to sales of PlayStation3 units, is a bit weak as only a proportion of those who buy a games player will use it for movie playback.

And if blu-ray's strong software sales aren't due to PS3, then all the better - they must be due to strength of the standalone base. See where you're heading?

Chris Gerhard · 03-31-2007, 10:12 AM

I thought that article was very good summary for the new HD disc enthusiast. I don't know the real numbers and who does? What we see agreement on in all articles is that Blu-ray is ahead by a small margin. I hope we can get down to one format and since Blu-ray is obviously going to be here to stay for years based on any scenario I can envision, that is the one I pick. The upcoming inexpensive hardware and the possible win for HD DVD in China, probably means HD DVD is here to stay for years as well. Blu-ray fans can either do what is right and stay Blu-ray exclusive or jump on the HD DVD wagon which obviously helps the probable survival of HD DVD.

If anybody here is a major Universal stockholder or otherwise has some clout with Universal, let them know how much more profitable the HD disc business would be if HD DVD went bye bye.

Chris

Chris Gerhard · 03-31-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onanie

And if blu-ray's strong software sales aren't due to PS3, then all the better - they must be due to strength of the standalone base. See where you're heading?

I don't think Blu-ray software sales figures are strong, just the opposite. If the installed player base worldwide is now around the 3 million mark, I don't know the actual number, cumulative sales and weekly sales seem to indicate the owners are not buying much. I don't know if the upcoming inexpensive HD DVD hardware will mean HD DVD starts catching up in hardware, but if it does, it probably means Blu-ray doesn't increase the software percentage lead much. It woud seem all are in agreement that the total Blu-ray software sales hasn't yet reached 1,000,000. Are the huge majority of PS3 owners not even buying one Blu-ray disc? Will that be the way it is forever? At least HD DVD has sales of 3 or so discs for each player in service.

There is nothing to make me believe if everything stays the same regarding studio and hardware manufacturer support that Blu-ray can win the format war by impressive software sales.

Chris

The Don · 03-31-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

I don't think Blu-ray software sales figures are strong, just the opposite. If the installed player base worldwide is now around the 3 million mark, I don't know the actual number, cumulative sales and weekly sales seem to indicate the owners are not buying much. I don't know if the upcoming inexpensive HD DVD hardware will mean HD DVD starts catching up in hardware, but if it does, it probably means Blu-ray doesn't increase the software percentage lead much. It woud seem all are in agreement that the total Blu-ray software sales hasn't yet reached 1,000,000. Are the huge majority of PS3 owners not even buying one Blu-ray disc? Will that be the way it is forever? At least HD DVD has sales of 3 or so discs for each player in service.

There is nothing to make me believe if everything stays the same regarding studio and hardware manufacturer support that Blu-ray can win the format war by impressive software sales.

Chris

nevermind the fact that BD is crushing HD-DVD while coming out afterwards.....or the fact that the format isn't evemn a year old yet...

but how about the fact that BD is selling better than DVD did at this point?...

wait until BD players actually become affordable...and more people get PS3's....

the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 is collecting dust...plus the format has no studio support....and now these studio's have no reason to switch over...

if anything, it's only a matter of time before Universal wises up...

Solar Driftwood · 03-31-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

Your reasoning is weak.

The PS3, while not a standalone player, IS a fully fledged BD player. There are more than a few millions of them in consumer hands right now.

Whether the consumer choose to use its BD playback functionality is out of SCE's hands. However the functionality will ALWAYS be there should the consumer choose to use it. There is no module or add-on to hook-up and certainly it does not require additional firmware updates.

The attach rate for BD movies per PS3 owners is a little low but as the numbers for total BD unit sales for 2006-2007 thus far has shown, as well as the numbers of Casino Royale sold in the US, the PS3 owners are the ones that are causing the unit sales to increase.

fuad

I don't think my reasoning is weak at all. It's highly unlikely that the vast majority of PS3 buyers will be buying for the Blu-ray drive. They'll be buying it for the games side, first and foremost. I'd be more convinced if the claim was for the number of standalone players in households.

(And again, I'm pro-both formats, so my comment is on the 'spin' in Sony's PR - I'm not trying to undermine the success of Blu-ray, which I want to do very, very well!)

Valore · 03-31-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar Driftwood

I don't think my reasoning is weak at all. It's highly unlikely that the vast majority of PS3 buyers will be buying for the Blu-ray drive. They'll be buying it for the games side, first and foremost. I'd be more convinced if the claim was for the number of standalone players in households.

(And again, I'm pro-both formats, so my comment is on the 'spin' in Sony's PR - I'm not trying to undermine the success of Blu-ray, which I want to do very, very well!)

Personally...I bought the PS3 specificly for the blu-ray feature. I am a movie enthusiast as well as collector. If you're upgrading to the next level of HD entertainment, financially it makes sense to go with the PS3. It is/was the most affordable blu-ray unit, it is/was one of the best quality of units, AND it's an all around multi purpose machine.

Knight-Errant · 03-31-2007, 03:30 PM

I know two people with a PS3 and both of them want to buy Blu-ray discs without me prompting them.

Deciazulado · 03-31-2007, 03:45 PM

The PS3 I got I use it for BD playback mostly. Games are only 1.5% of my total Blu-discs at this momennt. Next PS3 game will probably be Lair in May, but the % will remain about the same because of additional Blu-ray movie purchases

AlexKx · 03-31-2007, 03:48 PM

Shoot if this is a format war that will last for "years" then forget it. Totally. Won't care. Won't even bother with Blu-Ray that I want to win. It will be pointless having two, three, or more formats. If this isn't decided by the end of THIS year (and that Blu-Ray is the winner) then these new discs can just fade away. Nothing's worth this. There is no excuse. The music industry DESPERATELY needs something for the public to buy and it won't happen over night adding all of the features their releases need to have. This is inexcusable. From what I have read on other posts it does appear that HD DVD WAS created specifically to hurt the sales of Blu-Ray. Pathetic.

nhaase · 03-31-2007, 03:56 PM

It's pretty much impossible to get attachment rates for BD movies for either PS3s or standalone players because when you buy a movie, you're not asked what kind of player you have.

I got my HDTV knowing I would buy the PS3 mostly for the BD playback feature. I enjoy video games very much, but getting the cheapest BD player on the market was enough for me. I see buying the PS3 as buying the cheapest BD player and getting a video game system for free. My friend is the same way, as is my brother. Whenever I talk to technologically inclined people and tell them I have a PS3, they say that is worth the $600 alone just for the movie playback. It's the same as the people who bought the PS2 for DVD playback.

People on this thread are saying the sales aren't strong, but The Don's comment that it's selling faster than DVD on a "since-inception" basis shows what it has going for it.

Ascended_Saiyan · 03-31-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

It woud seem all are in agreement that the total Blu-ray software sales hasn't yet reached 1,000,000. Are the huge majority of PS3 owners not even buying one Blu-ray disc? Will that be the way it is forever?

Actually, I've seen articles that say Blu-ray software sales are past 1,000,000 units.

Now, let's look at how many DVD player have been sold and compare them with the amount of discs sold for a particular title in a week (people tend not the look at ALL the relevant information when making a comparison). What is that percent? Then, use the same calculation method and plug in the amount of Blu-ray players sold compared to 100,000 copies of Casino Royale sold in a week(US).

It also seems that people do not understand that as more and more people buy players, the attach rate WILL drop. Blu-ray has reached a level where they are no longer just dealing with collectors or would be collectors of movies. BTW, the sales gap has jump from 1,000 to 40,000 to 100,000 discs.

Blu Tiger · 04-01-2007, 12:06 AM

Great article. I wonder if the new Xbox 360 Elite is going to affect sales of HD-DVD movies at all now that it will be capable of outputting in 1080p.

ra1024 · 04-01-2007, 12:34 AM

I always find it funny to hear people say the PS3 is bought for games when I bought it just for movies. After getting hooked on ota hd tv, I wanted movies in hd and the cheapest Bluray player was the PS3 so that was my choice. The fact that it played games made the decision all that much easier.

I can easily understand the attach rates for the PS3 being much lower than for HD players. I'm sure I'm in the minority and most PS3 owners bought theirs for games while everyone who bought an HD-DVD standalone bought it for movies.

I think bundling the initial consoles with a free movie was a great marketing idea as it gave the gamers a chance to see the difference. Choosing TN for the US launch was however a bad choice since the PQ was not great. They got it right for the European launch as CR will definitely turn some heads.

The Don · 04-01-2007, 01:09 AM

the reason I bought my PS3 was because of the BD player...

everyone I know plays Gears of war online and I would have gone 360 maybe...

but the PS3 having BD made this a no-brainer...

03-30-2007, 11:37 PM	#1
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	High-def battle of words Another interesting article High-def battle of words http://www.videobusiness.com/article....html?nid=2705

03-31-2007, 12:42 AM	#2
nhaase Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Trading Score:2	I had read recently, I think it was the Financial Times story (not sure), that BD had sold 700k while HD-DVD had sold 310k. Note: It wasn't the Fin. Times, but if anyone remembers, please point me that way. The same Home Media Retailing story confirms that over 1 million Blu-ray Discs have now sold to consumers (700,000 this year in 2007), with about 900,000 HD-DVDs sold (310,000 in 2007). You can read more at Video Business as well. --That's from TheDigitalBits.com on March 27th, so somebody is spinning the numbers. Judging from the article that started this thread, I am tempted to say that one is wrong, since digbits.com gives a source. Last edited by nhaase; 03-31-2007 at 12:47 AM.

03-31-2007, 07:36 AM	#3
Solar Driftwood Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Middlesex	An interesting article. I wonder if HD-DVD's healthy disc sales are partly to do with their lack of region coding? I've certainly picked up more HD-DVD discs from the US than I have Blu-ray (where only certain discs are all-region). And of course, Sony's claim that there are more BD players in homes due to sales of PlayStation3 units, is a bit weak as only a proportion of those who buy a games player will use it for movie playback. (I should point out that I'm strictly format-neutral, by the way, and these comments are simply observations of someone who supports both formats.) Last edited by Solar Driftwood; 03-31-2007 at 07:39 AM.

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03-31-2007, 10:12 AM	#6
Chris Gerhard Banned Member since:Feb 2007	I thought that article was very good summary for the new HD disc enthusiast. I don't know the real numbers and who does? What we see agreement on in all articles is that Blu-ray is ahead by a small margin. I hope we can get down to one format and since Blu-ray is obviously going to be here to stay for years based on any scenario I can envision, that is the one I pick. The upcoming inexpensive hardware and the possible win for HD DVD in China, probably means HD DVD is here to stay for years as well. Blu-ray fans can either do what is right and stay Blu-ray exclusive or jump on the HD DVD wagon which obviously helps the probable survival of HD DVD. If anybody here is a major Universal stockholder or otherwise has some clout with Universal, let them know how much more profitable the HD disc business would be if HD DVD went bye bye. Chris

03-31-2007, 03:30 PM	#11
Knight-Errant Power Member Member since:Aug 2005 Location:Sheffield, UK	I know two people with a PS3 and both of them want to buy Blu-ray discs without me prompting them.

03-31-2007, 03:45 PM	#12
Deciazulado Site Manager Top contributor Member since:Aug 2006 Location:USiberia Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:1159 Blu-ray collection:7044 DVD collection:4044	The PS3 I got I use it for BD playback mostly. Games are only 1.5% of my total Blu-discs at this momennt. Next PS3 game will probably be Lair in May, but the % will remain about the same because of additional Blu-ray movie purchases

03-31-2007, 03:48 PM	#13
AlexKx Active Member Member since:Jan 2005	Shoot if this is a format war that will last for "years" then forget it. Totally. Won't care. Won't even bother with Blu-Ray that I want to win. It will be pointless having two, three, or more formats. If this isn't decided by the end of THIS year (and that Blu-Ray is the winner) then these new discs can just fade away. Nothing's worth this. There is no excuse. The music industry DESPERATELY needs something for the public to buy and it won't happen over night adding all of the features their releases need to have. This is inexcusable. From what I have read on other posts it does appear that HD DVD WAS created specifically to hurt the sales of Blu-Ray. Pathetic.

03-31-2007, 03:56 PM	#14
nhaase Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Trading Score:2	It's pretty much impossible to get attachment rates for BD movies for either PS3s or standalone players because when you buy a movie, you're not asked what kind of player you have. I got my HDTV knowing I would buy the PS3 mostly for the BD playback feature. I enjoy video games very much, but getting the cheapest BD player on the market was enough for me. I see buying the PS3 as buying the cheapest BD player and getting a video game system for free. My friend is the same way, as is my brother. Whenever I talk to technologically inclined people and tell them I have a PS3, they say that is worth the $600 alone just for the movie playback. It's the same as the people who bought the PS2 for DVD playback. People on this thread are saying the sales aren't strong, but The Don's comment that it's selling faster than DVD on a "since-inception" basis shows what it has going for it.

04-01-2007, 12:06 AM	#16
Blu Tiger Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Denver, CO Blu-ray collection:725 Trading Score:27	Great article. I wonder if the new Xbox 360 Elite is going to affect sales of HD-DVD movies at all now that it will be capable of outputting in 1080p.

04-01-2007, 12:34 AM	#17
ra1024 Senior Member Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews:4 Trading Score:1	I always find it funny to hear people say the PS3 is bought for games when I bought it just for movies. After getting hooked on ota hd tv, I wanted movies in hd and the cheapest Bluray player was the PS3 so that was my choice. The fact that it played games made the decision all that much easier. I can easily understand the attach rates for the PS3 being much lower than for HD players. I'm sure I'm in the minority and most PS3 owners bought theirs for games while everyone who bought an HD-DVD standalone bought it for movies. I think bundling the initial consoles with a free movie was a great marketing idea as it gave the gamers a chance to see the difference. Choosing TN for the US launch was however a bad choice since the PQ was not great. They got it right for the European launch as CR will definitely turn some heads.

04-01-2007, 01:09 AM	#18
The Don Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Apr 2006 Blu-ray reviews:12 Trading Score:2	the reason I bought my PS3 was because of the BD player... everyone I know plays Gears of war online and I would have gone 360 maybe... but the PS3 having BD made this a no-brainer...

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