Dolby Atmos speakers setup

[RockyIII]

Is any of you familiar with the different options of speakers setups for Dolby Atmos overhead sound effects? I got a few question

[BozQ]

What exactly do you want to know?

[RockyIII]

In another audio forum that I won't mention, there is virtually a war going on over this debate:
According to Dolby Atmos guidelines, upward firing speakers placed on top of your L/F and R/F speakers will mimic overhead effects of in-ceiling speakers (sound coming from above).
Now, some folks (who have not had great success with upfiring speakers for Dolby Atmos effects) are arguing that using "height" speakers-or speakers mounted up high on the front wall close to the ceiling, will result in better Atmos effects than upfiring speakers.
To me, that is hard to believe because the position of height speakers do not result in any sound from above, but they will only add to the effect of your left and right front speakers...or am I missing something here?

[BozQ]

Generally, Dolby optimally recommends a 7.1.4 configuration. With either upfiring Dolby Atmos speakers or ceiling mounted speakers.

I'd imagine Dolby Atmos for home was engineered in these two methods of configuration. Behind the scenes, when the sound mixer creates the soundtrack in Dolby Atmos, it is designed with overhead speakers. No Dolby Atmos cinemas has front height speakers installed. So I doubt having front height speakers will reproduce Dolby Atmos at home effectively.

There might be additional effects, but the experience will probably be different from what it was intended.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by BozQ

Generally, Dolby optimally recommends a 7.1.4 configuration. With either upfiring Dolby Atmos speakers or ceiling mounted speakers.

I'd imagine Dolby Atmos for home was engineered in these two methods of configuration. Behind the scenes, when the sound mixer creates the soundtrack in Dolby Atmos, it is designed with overhead speakers. No Dolby Atmos cinemas has front height speakers installed. So I doubt having front height speakers will reproduce Dolby Atmos at home effectively.

There might be additional effects, but the experience will probably be different from what it was intended.

Exactly my point. Studios do not record with height speakers in mind. Upfiring speakers are an alternative to ceiling speakers for Home Theater use, height speakers are only "add-ons" to be potentially installed once we have a set of either ceiling speakers or upfiring speakers installed, not as REPLACEMENTS.
Yet some disgruntled audiophiles are saying that if ceiling speakers are not an option, the best next option is height speakers

[Gravy4547]

Well I have height speakers and am non-Atmos. (Waiting for the tech to grow and the price, to see how Atmos pans out.) When I do get an Atmos AVR, I intend to compare front height vs upward firing. My heights look very nice right were they are, and moving them to the center of the ceiling is not an option. And I sound proofed my home theater room, so cutting holes and putting in ceiling speakers is not an option, as it would ruin my sound proofing efforts.

Not sure what your heights look like, but mine are little Polk satellite speakers. Should not be that big of an experiment to compare and hear if there is that much of a difference between height and reflecting. Or if you wanted to buy me a 9 channel Denon Atmos enable receiver, then I will gladly run this experiment and share the results!

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Exactly my point. Studios do not record with height speakers in mind. Upfiring speakers are an alternative to ceiling speakers for Home Theater use, height speakers are only "add-ons" to be potentially installed once we have a set of either ceiling speakers or upfiring speakers installed, not as REPLACEMENTS.
Yet some disgruntled audiophiles are saying that if ceiling speakers are not an option, the best next option is height speakers

I will not completely write them off though.

Bear in mind, I don't have real hands on experience with an actual Dolby Atmos receiver and speakers to fiddle around with.

But in theory, a Dolby Atmos receiver should be able to render the closest experience based on whatever configuration you have.

I believe, behind the scenes, someone mentioned that the sound mixing stage is configured in a 7.1.4 setup with upfiring speakers. But that doesn't mean you must have this configuration in order to enjoy Dolby Atmos.

You can have a weird 4.1.6 and it will still try to provide the experience.

My point is, as long as you instruct your receivers which speakers are in which position, it will try to render Dolby Atmos as best as it can. Even with Front Height channels.

That being said, you can't go wrong with a 7.1.4 configuration with either upfiring or ceiling mounted speakers. If you can get either of those set up, then that's about as authentic as you can get and you don't have to get too upset with what others have to say.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by BozQ

I will not completely write them off though.

Bear in mind, I don't have real hands on experience with an actual Dolby Atmos receiver and speakers to fiddle around with.

But in theory, a Dolby Atmos receiver should be able to render the closest experience based on whatever configuration you have.

I believe, behind the scenes, someone mentioned that the sound mixing stage is configured in a 7.1.4 setup with upfiring speakers. But that doesn't mean you must have this configuration in order to enjoy Dolby Atmos.

You can have a weird 4.1.6 and it will still try to provide the experience.

My point is, as long as you instruct your receivers which speakers are in which position, it will try to render Dolby Atmos as best as it can. Even with Front Height channels.

That being said, you can't go wrong with a 7.1.4 configuration with either upfiring or ceiling mounted speakers. If you can get either of those set up, then that's about as authentic as you can get and you don't have to get too upset with what others have to say.

Good points.
The main argument made is that upfiring spekaers generally do not work in most homes, but only in specifically designed demo rooms. In order for upfiring speakers to properly hit the ceiling with sound waves and have those sound waves bounce off the ceiling and hit the main listening seat overhead you need an environment that is not realistic. Perfectly flat ceiling, specific ceiling material, specific distance from upfiring speakers to ceining and from speakers to MLP. So many factors make-supposedly-height speakers a better option regardless of the room

[MobileES]

I have a flat ceiling and Onkyo upfiring Atmos speakers, they sound good, however I just installed 4 surround/satellite speakers on my ceiling for overhead top front/rear. The overhead sound literally is night and day between the Onkyo's, much better. I have to run proper wiring along the walls yet, did a quick mock-up last night......

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by MobileES

I have a flat ceiling and Onkyo upfiring Atmos speakers, they sound good, however I just installed 4 surround/satellite speakers on my ceiling for overhead top front/rear. The overhead sound literally is night and day between the Onkyo's, much better. I have to run proper wiring along the walls yet, did a quick mock-up last night......

outstanding, I just got my gear for upgrading to 7.1.4 and I'm using 2 pair of Polk Audio OWM3 speakers to mount on the ceiling with a slight angle so that they are not absolutely parallel to the floor (15-30 degrees) it will aim the tweeters nicely towards the seats. the nice thing about the mounts I'm using for the speakers is that they can easily be angled, swiveled and repositioned (on the mount) so I can make tweaks if I need to after they are installed. seeing your picture, my mounts are similar to yours. i'll have my speakers' tweeters up closer to the ceiling. I do love the mock up of the ceiling speaker layout you did, very, very nice!

also, my current Axiom QS8 surrounds are very high up on the wall, almost to the ceiling, I will be lowering them to ear level to separate/put distance between the surround layer and the height level to better differentiate between the two and allow for better blending where they would meet.

take a peek in my tread and i'll keep you guys posted on how that turns out. should have things up and running inside of 2 weeks or so.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by MobileES

I have a flat ceiling and Onkyo upfiring Atmos speakers, they sound good, however I just installed 4 surround/satellite speakers on my ceiling for overhead top front/rear. The overhead sound literally is night and day between the Onkyo's, much better. I have to run proper wiring along the walls yet, did a quick mock-up last night......

If I was going to install Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers in my home theater, I would've purchased and had them professionally installed in-walled speakers because, having those wires hanging down from the ceiling to the floor (like that) doesn't look neat nor safe, just to be honest.

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by slimdude

If I was going to install a Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers, I would've purchased and have them installed in-walled because, having those wires hanging down from the ceiling like doesn't look neat nor safe, just to be honest.

did you read the part where he said it was a mock up to see how the speakers looked and that he was going to run the cables on the wall and ceiling later?

if you were going for the joke, you should have put a or in there. I'm not knocking your comment either, I'm just saying, he already mentioned that in his post. also, if you had checked out his gallery, you would see he lives in an apartment (like myself) and can't install in ceiling or in wall speakers.

[Scarriere]

Originally Posted by MobileES

I have a flat ceiling and Onkyo upfiring Atmos speakers, they sound good, however I just installed 4 surround/satellite speakers on my ceiling for overhead top front/rear. The overhead sound literally is night and day between the Onkyo's, much better. I have to run proper wiring along the walls yet, did a quick mock-up last night......

[Show spoiler]

I understand that you've got a window on your left side, but if there's any way possible that you could lower your side surrounds, you should.
Great job and way to experiment!

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by MobileES

I have a flat ceiling and Onkyo upfiring Atmos speakers, they sound good, however I just installed 4 surround/satellite speakers on my ceiling for overhead top front/rear. The overhead sound literally is night and day between the Onkyo's, much better. I have to run proper wiring along the walls yet, did a quick mock-up last night......

Could you please show us the front stage with the Onkyo upfiring speakers?

[MobileES]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

outstanding, I just got my gear for upgrading to 7.1.4 and I'm using 2 pair of Polk Audio OWM3 speakers to mount on the ceiling with a slight angle so that they are not absolutely parallel to the floor (15-30 degrees) it will aim the tweeters nicely towards the seats. the nice thing about the mounts I'm using for the speakers is that they can easily be angled, swiveled and repositioned (on the mount) so I can make tweaks if I need to after they are installed. seeing your picture, my mounts are similar to yours. i'll have my speakers' tweeters up closer to the ceiling. I do love the mock up of the ceiling speaker layout you did, very, very nice!

also, my current Axiom QS8 surrounds are very high up on the wall, almost to the ceiling, I will be lowering them to ear level to separate/put distance between the surround layer and the height level to better differentiate between the two and allow for better blending where they would meet.

take a peek in my tread and i'll keep you guys posted on how that turns out. should have things up and running inside of 2 weeks or so.

Thanks! Sounds like you are tweeking your setup to perfect!! I checked out your gallery, pretty awesome theater you have going!! Gotta sound sweet. I picked up the mounts from Monoprice, they were only $7 for both pairs, good quality and all the mounting hardware supplied.

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

did you read the part where he said it was a mock up to see how the speakers looked and that he was going to run the cables on the wall and ceiling later?

if you were going for the joke, you should have put a or in there. I'm not knocking your comment either, I'm just saying, he already mentioned that in his post. also, if you had checked out his gallery, you would see he lives in an apartment (like myself) and can't install in ceiling or in wall speakers.

Thanks, I was hoping the "mock up" part was caught as I definitely wouldn't leave wires hanging like that. I just ordered white 12ga speaker wire today and I have clips, I can tidy it up when that gets here in the next few days.

Originally Posted by Scarriere

I understand that you've got a window on your left side, but if there's any way possible that you could lower your side surrounds, you should.
Great job and way to experiment!

Thanks, I wish there was a way, that sliding door takes up the whole area behind the curtains. Only thing I can think of is a surround speaker stand that would sit tall enough or a bracket to come down from that wall.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

outstanding, I just got my gear for upgrading to 7.1.4 and I'm using 2 pair of Polk Audio OWM3 speakers to mount on the ceiling with a slight angle so that they are not absolutely parallel to the floor (15-30 degrees) it will aim the tweeters nicely towards the seats. the nice thing about the mounts I'm using for the speakers is that they can easily be angled, swiveled and repositioned (on the mount) so I can make tweaks if I need to after they are installed. seeing your picture, my mounts are similar to yours. i'll have my speakers' tweeters up closer to the ceiling. I do love the mock up of the ceiling speaker layout you did, very, very nice!

also, my current Axiom QS8 surrounds are very high up on the wall, almost to the ceiling, I will be lowering them to ear level to separate/put distance between the surround layer and the height level to better differentiate between the two and allow for better blending where they would meet.

take a peek in my tread and i'll keep you guys posted on how that turns out. should have things up and running inside of 2 weeks or so.

I just ordered the Polk OWM3... Can they handle performance at high volume (reference volume)?
I have heard that a pair of speakers at approx. $99 are not advised if you listen at loud volumes, they simply won't be spec'ed of have the quality to perform high volume with low distortion.
So you'd have to turn your system down to match the weakest link

[MobileES]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Could you please show us the front stage with the Onkyo upfiring speakers?

Ceiling is just under 8ft...

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by MobileES

Ceiling is just under 8ft...

Thanks for sharing. I read very negative reviews about those Onkyo upfiring speakers and just about upfiring speakers in general. Supposedly there is virtually no overhead Atmos effects going on in that setup and in order to truly experience Atmos you got to install height speakers high on the wall or ceiling speakers

[MobileES]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Thanks for sharing. I read very negative reviews about those Onkyo upfiring speakers and just about upfiring speakers in general. Supposedly there is virtually no overhead Atmos effects going on in that setup and in order to truly experience Atmos you got to install height speakers high on the wall or ceiling speakers

In my experience it's there just not like overhead, and the only way I can say that now is my experimenting with using the overhead speakers. On the latest Dolby Atmos test disc they have a helicopter demo and it rotates between all 4 height speakers, with the Onkyo's you can tell its "up there" slightly, with the overhead speakers it really does sound like it's flying above and around the living room. I disconnected all my speakers except for the Onkyo's and played some Atmos material, very slight noticeable on certain scenes. Watched Gravity last night with the overheads, oh man . Same thing with Expendables, when a plane or helicopter flies overhead, it sounds like it flew threw the living room!!

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by MobileES

In my experience it's there just not like overhead, and the only way I can say that now is my experimenting with using the overhead speakers. On the latest Dolby Atmos test disc they have a helicopter demo and it rotates between all 4 height speakers, with the Onkyo's you can tell its "up there" slightly, with the overhead speakers it really does sound like it's flying above and around the living room. I disconnected all my speakers except for the Onkyo's and played some Atmos material, very slight noticeable on certain scenes. Watched Gravity last night with the overheads, oh man . Same thing with Expendables, when a plane or helicopter flies overhead, it sounds like it flew threw the living room!!

As you can see, I am keeping my Front/Upfiring integrated Onkyo speakers on top of my Polk Audio front speakers until I receive my new Polk OWM3 speakers to adopt as height speakers