Sony Pictures Saawariya: Stuffed up subtitles

[syncguy]

Columbia Tristar Sony Pictures has stuffed the subtitles of the second Bollywood blu-ray movie Saawariya.

It has one line on the picture and the other on the black bar rendering the disk in its original form useless for CIH (continuous image height) displays thus forcing people to seek alternative solutions. How ridiculous.

I opened the case and asked my 12 year old son to insert the disk to our PS3 to be displayed on our Sony vw60 anxiously thinking Sony must have got the subtitles right. (We are a Sony family! Sony supports CIH by providing anamorphic stretch in vw60) Disk was played on the PS3, once selected the stuffed up subtitles appeared. My 12 year old son said: “Dad, they have stuffed up the subtitles. How can we watch this movie?” I did not have a friendly answer to that question. It is very interesting that my 12 year old boy said (without me influencing his thinking): “Dad, they have million subtitles in this, why didn’t they add another subtitle track fully on the picture, so we could have watched this movie.”

I had to explain to him the fact that some people have tunnel vision and it is very hard to force them to see outside of that tunnel. Also I had to explain to him that in some cases in some large organizations, the right hand does not know what the left hand does.

This is unfortunate and unbelievable. This could have been avoided very easily and it is ironic that this happened after informing Sony about this issue numerous times through this forum and other major forums. I am not sure anymore how to communicate with large companies …….

I urge blu-ray disk association to inform all studios about this (easily fixable) significant technical problem and request them to add an extra subtitle track fully on the picture for CIH displays and the zoomers. After all this is a matter of few more clicks in the authoring program. Please do this.

I wish Sony CEO read this post.

[ouflak]

This seems like a pretty big screw up. I've seen HD sets in India, and I'm pretty sure the PS3 is sold there in some numbers. Can't believe they didn't have somebody pop the (Bollywood) movie in a player with the subtitles enabled and give it a simple trial run.

English sub-titles are a nice segway language for Indians who aren't that strong in Hindi (which is a larger number than you might think) for whatever reason. I wonder what some of those electronics guys at the shop I visited are going to be thinking when they put this movie in and see this error. I just hope they assign this goof-up to the Japanese set of stereotypes and not the American set. We've got enough negative stereotypes as it is.

[Bullseye]

The picture on this film is referernce quality for those interested. If you like Bollywood its a must have.

[TheTenth]

what does "stuffed up subtitles" mean? I'm French

[owa]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

The picture on this film is referernce quality for those interested. If you like Bollywood its a must have.

Yeah, I think it's the best I've seen PQ-wise.

Originally Posted by syncguy

My 12 year old son said: “Dad, they have stuffed up the subtitles. How can we watch this movie?” I did not have a friendly answer to that question. It is very interesting that my 12 year old boy said (without me influencing his thinking): “Dad, they have million subtitles in this, why didn’t they add another subtitle track fully on the picture, so we could have watched this movie.”

Heh, impressive for a 12-year old. I pretty much hated subtitles when I was younger and they would have had to pay me (or tied me to the chair) to get me to sit through a 2+ hour musical.

[mikenike]

I'm surprised that Blu-Ray hasn't had dynamic subtitle placements yet. I mean, if movies can have dynamic menus where it is resized to fit into a little box at the top-right corner of the screen (like those found in Disney BDs) or actually using the full feature encode to do interactive programs (like on Cloverfield), then dynamic subtitle placements shouldn't really be a problem.

[toocheezy]

ok!

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by mikenike

I'm surprised that Blu-Ray hasn't had dynamic subtitle placements yet. I mean, if movies can have dynamic menus where it is resized to fit into a little box at the top-right corner of the screen (like those found in Disney BDs) or actually using the full feature encode to do interactive programs (like on Cloverfield), then dynamic subtitle placements shouldn't really be a problem.

Yes, you are right. It should have been like that.

But it is not. Subtitles cannot be moved in blu-ray, period. (Although it can be moved in DVD - e.g. TheaterTek s/w player)

It is a major stuff-up by the Blu-ray Disk Association and it is hidden under the carpet.

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by owa

Yeah, I think it's the best I've seen PQ-wise.


Heh, impressive for a 12-year old. I pretty much hated subtitles when I was younger and they would have had to pay me (or tied me to the chair) to get me to sit through a 2+ hour musical.

All my children watch Bollywood. They are accustomed to Bollywood since they were little kids. All of them read subtitles as they do not understand the language.

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by TheTenth

what does "stuffed up subtitles" mean? I'm French

One line on the black bar and the other on the picture. The line on the black bar cannot seen on a CIH display. It is a problem for the zoomers as well.

[TheTenth]

aren't these "stuffed subtitles" used in most movies? can't think of one where it isn't there ...

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by TheTenth

aren't these "stuffed subtitles" used in most movies? can't think of one where it isn't there ...

Out of 3 Bollywood movies released so far 2 of them got the subtitles on the picture and they are CIH and zoomers friendly. They are made by Eros Entertainment, one of the large Bollywodd movie studios. Thank you Eros for listening.

Heyy Babyy (Eros): subtitles on the picture
Om Shanti Om (Eros): subtitles on the picture
Saawariya (Sony): subtitles on the black bar - stuffed.

(There is a list somewhere on Hollywood movies - I will try to locate it.)

As I indicated previously the easiest temporary measure is to have two subtitle tracks, one on the black bar and the other on the picture so that people can select.

[X400]

for me i wish the subtitles would always be on the black bar and not on the picture


you would think adding a code or another subtitle file to the disc wouldnt be an issue, but im assuming only a small amount of people have CIH displays and to consider if they used subtitles would be too bothersome for the disc programmers

[syncguy]

I have read in another forum about new generation Scope projectors using 4k chip. Interesting. The demand for an amicable resolution for blu-ray subtitle issue will rise with time. There will be a demand from CIH/Scope displays as well as zoomers as they cannot read subtitles if on the black bar. They will seek alternative solutions if a straight solution is not available.

The Blu-ray Disk Association has opened up a whole new world for the pirates. This is crafting a new business and giving it on a platter to pirates. It is beyond me why people do not understand this.

Perhaps one way out of this mess is to carry out necessary testing (spend money) and add code to subtitle-nudge-up/down into the blu-ray protected video path through a firmware upgrade. It is better to spend relatively small amount of money and save large amount of future potential revenue.

A temporary measure is to have two tracks on the disk (one on the black bar and the other on the picture). It is matter of few more clicks at the authoring stage.....

[TheTenth]

Originally Posted by syncguy

Heyy Babyy (Eros): subtitles on the picture
Om Shanti Om (Eros): subtitles on the picture
Saawariya (Sony): subtitles on the black bar - stuffed.

so it's better if the subtitles are on the image???!!!

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by TheTenth

so it's better if the subtitles are on the image???!!!

It is not a matter of better or not. It is a must if you are using a CIH display. Otherwise can't read them and the movie becomes meaningless.

This is the way the subtitles are on theatrical releases - no black bars in the theater.

[hardcore_canadian]

Originally Posted by syncguy

It is not a matter of better or not. It is a must if you are using a CIH display. Otherwise can't read them and the movie becomes meaningless.

This is the way the subtitles are on theatrical releases - no black bars in the theater.

What about the hundreds of thousands of DVDs from India that come out with No Subtitles at all? They're not Meaningless, they're just over your head

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by hardcore_canadian

What about the hundreds of thousands of DVDs from India that come out with No Subtitles at all? They're not Meaningless, they're just over your head

I am sorry, I haven't seen "hundreds of thousands of DVDs from India" without subtitles. Indian movie studios (e.g Eros, Yash Raj, UTV) always do a good job with subtitles.

However, there are primitive crap quality pirated DVDs without subtitles get out usually during the first week or two after the movie is released in the Indian theaters. I refuse to watch this type of crap and recommend everyone not to waste their time on this type of literal rubbish.

The irony is DVD has the capability to nudge up/down subtitles to move them away from or into the black bars. Unfortunately, blu-ray still hasn’t got this capability. Blu-ray is a backward step in this regard but sincerely expect this would be fixed soon.

[Deimos]

Originally Posted by X400

for me i wish the subtitles would always be on the black bar and not on the picture

I guess you are not watching movies on a projector, your screen is really small, or you don't usually see subtitled movies.

Using a CIH or not, subtitles should be over the frame, never on the black bars. It's better to avoid information while you're reading, it's more comfortable (your eyes movement is smaller) and of course, they are always going to be projected in any kind of configuration.

It's not a matter of tastes, but of common sense.

[Sushisake]

Since I do not understand Hindi - I would never want to watch this movie without the subtitles. By the way - I agree with many other posters - this film is amazing in the picture quality department. The story is also good and the film certainly has rewatch value. OM SHANTI OM, another Bollywood title is not as good PQ-wise (yet still fantastic) - however, the film itself is wonderful on all levels.

Please send us more Bollywood titles!