AVRw/5channel or Pre/pro w/ 7channel amp

[got rice]

Hello, I am in the market for a new AVR or pre/pro plus amp setup. Hoping some of you could chime in and offer some ideas on why or why not to to do one or the other. My budget is between 1300.00 and $1500.00.

I've done a little research and have narrowed it down to these:

1. an AVR(onkyo 805 or denon 2808) plus an Emotiva XPA-5 http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm
Run 2 channel from AVR then 5channel amp

2. AVR(Onkyo 875/6 or Denon 3808) plus an Emotiva UPA-7 http://emotiva.com/upa7.shtm
Run 2 channel AVR then bridge for 5 channels.

3. pre/pro Emotiva UMC-1 (when available) plus Emotiva UPA-7

Which would run the best video upconversion?
How would music sound if AVR is used for 2 channel music?
What would be the best set up for 2 channel music?
Which would offer the most versatility for future upgrades?
Is heat an issue with the AVR/ amp setup?
Are there any other brands you would consider?
Thanks

[fronn]

UMC-1 + XPA-5 or UPA-7 = best value under $2k (probably more, but definitely best under 2k - assuming UMC-1 isn't a broken mess when it comes out - like the Cary 11a was ).

To answer some of your other questions:

875/6 would probably have the best, with the UMC behind it... though Torino could be better than the 875/6 implementation of Reon... who knows (Torino is relatively untested, but it should be quite superior to the previous Faroudja chips in the rest of the receivers).

I would expect the UMC to sound the best in 2ch mode, despite the better DACs in the 875/Denon (DACs aren't everything).

Separates are always better for future proofing - Emotiva will also give you a 40% off coupon for future generation Pre/pros.

Emotiva amps and others like it (of similar design) run relatively cool (much cooler than any of the 4 listed receivers). The listed receivers are definitely not cool running... The Onkyos tend to run hot, even.

Not sure on other recommendations... I would say the Emotiva set is definitely the best bet in your price range.

[sokrman14]

Im going through a similar dilemma, I have the AVR3808 with a sweet amp, but I am debating whether I should sell the AVR for a dedicated pre/pro. I think that one of the higher end Onkyo or Denon's (its not hard to figure out which of the two I would choose) would be better than the emotiva. Its nothing against emotiva, I just dont see them as an upgrade. I think you would be starting at the Outlaw or higher models to notice a difference. That is my opinion, take it how you want though.

[got rice]

I really like the idea of a dedicated pre/pro coupled with the same brand amp.The UMC-1 and the XPA-5 is really getting my attention. To me,this offers a really "clean/sexy" look. I think the two will blend well together,aesthetically,as well as acoustically.

Performance wise some of the specs are foreign to me.
-10 bit video resolution? What is the current standard?
-Twin cirrius 32 bit dual core DSP? How is this compared to Onkyo 876 or Denon 3808 DSP?
-Quad bass management with independent selectable frequencies? I have no idea what this is?
-Concern for the first production run of the product. May have some kinks to work out. Is this a concern for others?

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by got rice

I really like the idea of a dedicated pre/pro coupled with the same brand amp.The UMC-1 and the XPA-5 is really getting my attention. To me,this offers a really "clean/sexy" look.

+1

[got rice]

Originally Posted by fronn

UMC-1 + XPA-5 or UPA-7 = best value under $2k (probably more, but definitely best under 2k - assuming UMC-1 isn't a broken mess when it comes out - like the Cary 11a was ).

To answer some of your other questions:

875/6 would probably have the best, with the UMC behind it... though Torino could be better than the 875/6 implementation of Reon... who knows (Torino is relatively untested, but it should be quite superior to the previous Faroudja chips in the rest of the receivers).

I would expect the UMC to sound the best in 2ch mode, despite the better DACs in the 875/Denon (DACs aren't everything).

Separates are always better for future proofing - Emotiva will also give you a 40% off coupon for future generation Pre/pros.

Emotiva amps and others like it (of similar design) run relatively cool (much cooler than any of the 4 listed receivers). The listed receivers are definitely not cool running... The Onkyos tend to run hot, even.

Not sure on other recommendations... I would say the Emotiva set is definitely the best bet in your price range.

Is this the same Faroudja chip found in the Denon amps? I read in another forum that the HVQ Reon is the leading standard when it comes to the video processing. Is this true?

The 40% coupon Emo offers in definitely a bonus I wasn't aware of.Thanks

[got rice]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

Im going through a similar dilemma, I have the AVR3808 with a sweet amp, but I am debating whether I should sell the AVR for a dedicated pre/pro. I think that one of the higher end Onkyo or Denon's (its not hard to figure out which of the two I would choose) would be better than the emotiva. Its nothing against emotiva, I just dont see them as an upgrade. I think you would be starting at the Outlaw or higher models to notice a difference. That is my opinion, take it how you want though.

If I was in your position I probably wouldn't go with the UMC-1 either. The Denon 3808 is a fine piece of equipment. You mentioned Outlaw,any thoughts about Sunfire or Anthem.
My budget restricts me from any of these purchases.

[primaz]

Originally Posted by got rice

I really like the idea of a dedicated pre/pro coupled with the same brand amp.The UMC-1 and the XPA-5 is really getting my attention. To me,this offers a really "clean/sexy" look. I think the two will blend well together,aesthetically,as well as acoustically.

Performance wise some of the specs are foreign to me.
-10 bit video resolution? What is the current standard?
-Twin cirrius 32 bit dual core DSP? How is this compared to Onkyo 876 or Denon 3808 DSP?
-Quad bass management with independent selectable frequencies? I have no idea what this is?
-Concern for the first production run of the product. May have some kinks to work out. Is this a concern for others?

The preamp does not need to be the same brand. You might consider the new Outlaw Audio 997 non powered processor/preamp that is comming soon http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/997.html and using the Emotiva amp or check out Outlaw Audio's amps as they have had some great sales on their 7 channel amps. The 997 has impressive specs and the first to have a consumer Trinnov Optimizer.

[fronn]

Originally Posted by got rice

Is this the same Faroudja chip found in the Denon amps? I read in another forum that the HVQ Reon is the leading standard when it comes to the video processing. Is this true?

The 40% coupon Emo offers in definitely a bonus I wasn't aware of.Thanks

The faroudja in the Denons and Onkyo 805/6 is actually pretty poor. The UMC-1 has the Torino, which is Genesis's (Faroudja) rather new top end chip. It's sort of up in the air at this point as it's hard to find reviews, but it should be better than all but the 875/6, at least.

[fronn]

Originally Posted by primaz

The preamp does not need to be the same brand. You might consider the new Outlaw Audio 997 non powered processor/preamp that is comming soon http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/997.html and using the Emotiva amp or check out Outlaw Audio's amps as they have had some great sales on their 7 channel amps. The 997 has impressive specs and the first to have a consumer Trinnov Optimizer.

The problem is the Sherwood receiver still isn't out yet (what the 997 is based on), as far as I know, so the 997 is still several months away at best - it's been delayed so long that it's hard to know (though, UMC-1 has certainly had it's run of delays ).

The Outlaw 997 should definitely be better than the UMC-1 (it's more in line with the XMC-1), but it's also got a ~$1200+ price point last I checked, which is going to put it out of his stated price range... and if he's going to up his price range and wait around for months, he should probably look into the XMC-1 too.

Though, you're definitely right that they don't need to be the same brand. That's part of the benefit of separates.

[got rice]

Originally Posted by fronn

The faroudja in the Denons and Onkyo 805/6 is actually pretty poor. The UMC-1 has the Torino, which is Genesis's (Faroudja) rather new top end chip. It's sort of up in the air at this point as it's hard to find reviews, but it should be better than all but the 875/6, at least.

I know this is beating a dead horse and I certainly don't want this to be come a Emotiva UMC=1 ra ra chat, but have you read anything on the UMC-1 release date.

I found this and got all excited , then read the post date and it is way off. http://aventhusiast.com/audio/separa...ship-this-june

[got rice]

Do any of the new pre/pro's i.e.Outlaw 997 or Emotiva UMC-1 offer a USB port to stream music or use an external USB memory stick?

[got rice]

Originally Posted by fronn

The problem is the Sherwood receiver still isn't out yet (what the 997 is based on), as far as I know, so the 997 is still several months away at best - that they don't need to be the same brand. That's part of the benefit of separates.

Sherwood?? Isn't that a low end brand?

I know they don't have to be the same brand, but for some reason I like the "aesthetics" of having mathching pre/pro and amp. Also I think having the same brand the equipment will complement each other sonically. Kinda like having the speaker fronts match the rears.

[fronn]

Originally Posted by got rice

Sherwood?? Isn't that a low end brand?

Sherwood is the parent company of Outlaw or they share designs, at least (a lot of Outlaw is rebadged Sherwood - ATI and Sherwood share the same production lines as well). The Sherwood R-972 is what the Outlaw 997 is based on, iirc. The 997 won't be out until a couple months after the R-972 finally ships.

[fronn]

Originally Posted by got rice

I know this is beating a dead horse and I certainly don't want this to be come a Emotiva UMC=1 ra ra chat, but have you read anything on the UMC-1 release date.

I found this and got all excited , then read the post date and it is way off. http://aventhusiast.com/audio/separa...ship-this-june

I would guess April or May at latest for the UMC-1 (which sucks for those of us that are more interested in the XMC-1 - that's about 6 months out after UMC release!).

They're close, it seems... but who knows really. It's in final testing/production, but I haven't heard any mention of anything outside of that.

UMC-1 has definitely had it's share of delays, should be worth it in the end though.

[fronn]

Originally Posted by got rice

Do any of the new pre/pro's i.e.Outlaw 997 or Emotiva UMC-1 offer a USB port to stream music or use an external USB memory stick?

UMC-1 probably won't play off a USB stick... the usb port(s) (there's 2 really, but 1 port is for nothing at the moment) is for firmware upgrades only.

Haven't heard either way on the Outlaw though.

[got rice]

Originally Posted by fronn

I would guess April or May at latest for the UMC-1 (which sucks for those of us that are more interested in the XMC-1 - that's about 6 months out after UMC release!).

.

What do you like about the XMC-1? Would this be in line with the XPA-5?

Are there any pre/pro's currently on the market that stream music or are I-pod compatible?

[fronn]

Originally Posted by got rice

What do you like about the XMC-1? Would this be in line with the XPA-5?

Are there any pre/pro's currently on the market that stream music or are I-pod compatible?

1) XMC-1 is based on a similar design as the UMC-1 (same twin dual core DSPs at their core). The XMC-1 has two Torino chips for it's two zone outputs (it has 3 HDMI outs, actually - two zones + an extra output for using TV and Projector), so the OSD can be displayed on both zones simultaneously and scaling can also be done on all the outputs. It also has 8 HDMI inputs (probably quite excessive for most, including myself) and XLR outputs (mostly unnecessary, but they don't hurt). Headphone jack as well (with dolby headphone, iirc - this I'll use occasionally). It also has better DACs and an improved analog path over the UMC-1. Not sure what else - there's a possibility of other differences as more information becomes available.

I just want something that I won't have to feel like upgrading in a couple years - I plan on keeping it for an extended period of time... but I also don't want to pay ridiculous amounts for my audio (price/performance is important to me, and Emotiva seems to reign supreme in that respect... they certainly aren't the absolute best, but they are pretty hard to beat value wise). I may be able to tell the difference between amplifiers and pre/pros, but that doesn't mean the differences justify the cost to me - others have different viewpoints (and that's why some people spend $3-10k on a pre/pro and I won't).

2) There are others that stream music and/or are iPod compatible, but they tend to run quite a bit more. iPod compatibility adds licensing costs that are most definitely passed on to the consumer (as well as the perceived value addition). Streaming generally comes with any Pre/pros that have a network connection (which get real pricey). I don't think you'll find either feature in the sub $1500 Pre/pro range (there's only a handful of Pre/pros in that range to begin with - Outlaw and Emotiva are about it, really).

[got rice]

Originally Posted by fronn

1) XMC-1 is based on a similar design as the UMC-1 (same twin dual core DSPs at their core). The XMC-1 has two Torino chips for it's two zone outputs (it has 3 HDMI outs, actually - two zones + an extra output for using TV and Projector), so the OSD can be displayed on both zones simultaneously and scaling can also be done on all the outputs. It also has 8 HDMI inputs (probably quite excessive for most, including myself) and XLR outputs (mostly unnecessary, but they don't hurt). Headphone jack as well (with dolby headphone, iirc - this I'll use occasionally). It also has better DACs and an improved analog path over the UMC-1. Not sure what else - there's a possibility of other differences as more information becomes available.

I just want something that I won't have to feel like upgrading in a couple years - I plan on keeping it for an extended period of time... but I also don't want to pay ridiculous amounts for my audio (price/performance is important to me, and Emotiva seems to reign supreme in that respect... they certainly aren't the absolute best, but they are pretty hard to beat value wise). I may be able to tell the difference between amplifiers and pre/pros, but that doesn't mean the differences justify the cost to me - others have different viewpoints (and that's why some people spend $3-10k on a pre/pro and I won't).

2) There are others that stream music and/or are iPod compatible, but they tend to run quite a bit more. iPod compatibility adds licensing costs that are most definitely passed on to the consumer (as well as the perceived value addition). Streaming generally comes with any Pre/pros that have a network connection (which get real pricey). I don't think you'll find either feature in the sub $1500 Pre/pro range (there's only a handful of Pre/pros in that range to begin with - Outlaw and Emotiva are about it, really).

Fronn, thanks for taking the time out to offer this info about the XMC-1. The more I think about it I am considering taking my budget of $1300.00 - $1500.00 and buy a better amp maybe Sunfire or Anthem A5, then down the road add a pre/pro which will offer something similar to the characteristics of the XMC-1.

I too would like to purchase something that I will not have ot upgrade in a couple years. Maybe by the time I am ready to buy the pre/pro there will be something for music as well as HT, at reasonalbe cost.

Man I tell you what, right when you think you have figured out what you want, it all changes in a moments notice. So confused.

[got rice]

Originally Posted by got rice

If I was in your position I probably wouldn't go with the UMC-1 either. The Denon 3808 is a fine piece of equipment. You mentioned Outlaw,any thoughts about Sunfire or Anthem.
My budget restricts me from any of these purchases.

Duh... I just read your signature B&K reference 200X7. That certainly qualifies as a superior amp. Sorry about that.